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Little changes we can make to normalise cycling and encourage its uptake

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  • Registered Users Posts: 28,939 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Bad behaviour is indeed endemic to pedestrians, cyclists, motorists. It’s worth noting that pedestrians and cyclists don’t kill a couple of people each week.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,993 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    In fairness its traffic complaining about traffic. Their solution? More traffic.

    I agree with the cycle lanes being often very poorly designed and implemented. They are box ticking.



  • Registered Users Posts: 27,689 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    This is exactly the Irish cultural problem. If nobody is harmed by my wrongdoing, then it's ok.

    Cyclists do cause damage, I ended up in A&E a few years ago because of a cyclist on a footpath, I have seen them many times shocking and frightening elderly pedestrians. Just because people weren't killed doesn't make it right.

    Addressing bad behaviour on the roads, respecting speed limits and traffic lights, being aware of other users, until that applies to all, the problems won't go away. You see, the cyclists who don't respect traffic lights later get into cars with the same mentality. Quite often the drivers who cause problems for cyclists and pedestrians are badly behaved when pedestrians or cyclists.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 49,397 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    taking that at face value, it's like saying 'someone who is irresponsible with a hammer will be irresponsible with guns so we should police hammer use just as much as gun use'?

    or else i don't know what conclusion to draw from your point?



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,993 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    Bad habits are habitual.

    We should have laws and enforce them. Regardless if they have any meaningful effect.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 9,387 ✭✭✭Macy0161


    100% the biggest thing that could be done to change our traffic culture is enforcement (we saw that briefly when penalty points were introduced before people realised still little chance of being caught). Hopefully a dashcam/ bike cam/ camera portal will help drive that change, along with the change in law to allow more video evidence.

    However, it's still a false equivalence to compare rule breaking by cyclists and pedestrians to that of motorists. The numbers of cyclists, apparently a major safety issued, breaking lights/ cycling on footpaths isn't overwhelming A&E's or causing massive spikes in road deaths. Vulnerable road users killed by other vulnerable road users is a tiny percentage, with zero most years. I can only think of 2 in maybe 10+ years - 1 cyclist v pedestrian, and 1 pedestrian v cyclist. There's been a number of pedestrians killed by motorists only in the last few weeks.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Pedestrians arent killed by motorists,they unfortuneately have died due to an accident.

    Many of these pedestrians die very late at night,some may have too much alcohol on them and therefore may not have taken responsibility for their own safety.Some die because instead of walking to a set of traffic lights they take a chance crossing lanes of traffic.Some go out walking without wearing high vis gear, many cyclists do this too and this sometimes doesnt end well.

    And how do you know how many people are injured by having cyclists smashing into them,cyclists have no numbers on their bikes so no way of identifying them, is anyone anywhere keeping a database of people injured by cyclists.

    I have just witnessed an adult male on an electric bike mounting a footpath because he wouldnt wait for cars to move. So instead of stopping he careered down this footpath and if an elderly person came around the corner he would very likely have broken their hips and in that event shortened their life.

    The cyclist behaviour is a disgrace, but no, but look over there at motorists "killing" people, seriously,own the problem caused by your fellow cycling zealots.



  • Registered Users Posts: 792 ✭✭✭Alias G


    A perfectly good example of why the plastic bollards are necessary. Thanks.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    How would plastic bollards have helped,are you proposing that plastic bollards be put on every foot path adjoining a road.

    Is this your solution to adults on electric bikes using footpaths to pass out cars.



  • Registered Users Posts: 792 ✭✭✭Alias G


    You know right well, the function of plastic bollards is to facilitate cyclists to overtake on the left without encroachment of motorists into the cycle lane. If the scenario you described above allowed for the installation of said bollards, then the cyclist would have had no need to mount the pavement. This scenario plays out in countless junctions the width and breath of the nation. Thanks you again for emphasizing to us yet another reason why the bollards are a necessary eyesore. Believe me, I would like nothing more than to confine them to the history books. Unfortunately, too many motorists are unwilling to share the road fairly with other more vulnerable road user so we are stuck with them.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 27,689 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    You are distinguishing consequences from actions and assuming that they are all distinct groups.

    There is a driver in my estate who consistently is over the 30 km/h limit who also spends his weekends cycling on the footpaths. Bad behaviour becomes ingrained and transferred to other arenas.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 49,397 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    Pedestrians arent killed by motorists,they unfortuneately have died due to an accident.

    this is pure parody.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Where was a cycle lane mentioned.

    This is a narrow busy road with lots of pedestrians on the footpath,it leads to a small corner shop which elderly people like to walk to for milk and the papers.

    There is no cycle lane, the man on bike didnt want to wait behind cars and move when the lights changed.

    He couldnt squeeze in between the cars and the kerb so while still cycling at speed he went up on the pavement and stayed on it not giving a thought to any pedestrian who might appear around the corner, he got ahead of maybe three cars and came back onto the road at that point,utterly disgraceful selfish behaviour,can you not accept this is a problem, how would you feel if he hit your mother or father.

    And it was an electric bike pedalled at speed,whatever about ordinary bikes these machines should definitely be required to be registered and have number plates.



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,896 ✭✭✭✭Spook_ie


    Unfortunately bollards are proliferating on roads where the road markings denote a shared cycle lane (broken line marking) as well as where road markings designate mandatory cycle lanes ( solid line marking ) if an emergency vehicle were to be travelling along this road then they would definitely be hindered as there is no space to the left to move over and the cycle lane isn't wide enough for an emergency vehicle to pass the traffic using the cycle lane

    No particular objection to mandatory cycle lanes having bollards ( other than how unsightly they look and how distracting the refectors can be at night time ) but putting them along broken white lines is just taking the piss.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    It absolutely isnt.

    As i said in many cases pedestrians die due to not taking personal responsibility for their own safety.

    Others die due to careless driving done by motorists or cyclists, its desperately sad but its an accident and not a killing.

    You may say some one was killed in a car accident in the same way someone was killed falling off a roof,it doesnt mean a motorist "killed" anyone.



  • Registered Users Posts: 792 ✭✭✭Alias G


    You didn't need to mention a cycle lane. Your anecdote equally describes similar scenarios across countless junctions all over the country where either a cycle lane does exist or motorists are just too selfish/entitled/bitter to leave adequate space for a passing cyclist. Believe me. I encounter the behaviour daily. Thank you again for highlighting the need for physical barriers to prevent motorists from hindering cyclist trying to go about their daily business.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,278 ✭✭✭Unrealistic


    Are you for real? Sure, the cases where drivers set out to kill someone are exceedingly rare, but that doesn't mean that drivers aren't killing people by their negligence and recklessness. If I'm out hunting and shoot a gun without complying with the required safety procedures, and end up shooting a fellow hunter dead, I've still killed them. I might not have done it deliberately, but I am responsible for it, because of my negligence when in control of a potentially deadly weapon.

    This diagram is from an analysis by TII of the data the Gardai submit to the RSA.

    It shows they only asses 31% of the collisions as being purely no fault. Of the remaining 69% where the Gardai assessed that specific factors contributed to the collisions, driver (mis)behaviour is at least partially blamed for 59% of the collisions. Driver behaviour is solely responsible for 56% of the collisions, in the judgement of the Gardai. Pedestrians on the other hand are solely to blame in 3% of the collisions and share responsibility in another 1%.

    Your victim blaming is actually quite sickening to be honest.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Jesus wept,you proved my point, entitled middle aged male cyclist.

    All this man had to do was wait behind the cars until the lights changed,I mean maybe a minutes wait and on he goes without mounting a footpath other are entitled to use safely. Did you miss the bit where I said this road which is short is very narrow, would you like the residents to give up their front gardens so you can have a cycle lane passing their window sill.

    Your attitude is disgusting,it really is.

    My elderly neighbours life was destroyed with covid and she goes out with her carer to that shop,its the only bit of exercise she gets and if your man hit her thats the end of her ever leaving her home.

    I very rarely get angry but your selfishness is unacceptable.

    You will be old and frail yourself some day.



  • Registered Users Posts: 792 ✭✭✭Alias G


    Between two wide lanes and a bus lane in that photo, you are taking the proverbial by claiming cars would find any issue making way for an emergency vehicle. I've seen blue lights pass through much narrower arteries than that during gridlock in a straightforward manner.

    You may have a pedantic point regarding the non mandatory cycle lanes but again, the bollards are merely a reflection of motorists inability to consider more vulnerable road users.



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,896 ✭✭✭✭Spook_ie


    A picture taken outside of rush hour, i have no idea how jammed up that road becomes 7-10am or 4-8pm so don't be pathetic in your arguments.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 792 ✭✭✭Alias G


    You will have to point out to me where I excused or defended the cyclist who mounted the pavement because I can't see it anywhere. Where my gripe is (and I thought I spelled it out sufficiently) is motorists not willing to leave space for a cyclist to pass on the left. And such behaviour is often either intentional or feckless. As I said, I see it daily. What is selfish about asking for a bit if respect from fellow road users. The bollards remediate this very scenario and would prevent the actions of the cyclist as outlined in your anecdote. What exactly is selfish in any of that.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    There for the grace of God go I,thats how I live my life.

    I could make a mistake driving and kill someone.

    Its not a killing in the sense of me deliberately driving a car at someone intending to take their life, its an accident.

    And there is nothing victim blaming about saying every road user should take responsibility for their safety, this includes pedestrians and cyclists.

    Dont get up on your bike if you have had a lot of drink, dont take off from the pub on an unlit road if you intend to walk home.

    You are confusing victim blaming with failing to take responsibility for ones safety.



  • Registered Users Posts: 792 ✭✭✭Alias G


    So you're claiming cars can't just pull into the bus lane or what?



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,278 ✭✭✭Unrealistic


    Really? If some driver got behind the wheel after five pints, and mounted the foot path, killing one of your loved ones, your reaction would be "there (but) for the grace of God go I"? You wouldn't think the driver was responsible? It was just an unavoidable accident? You wouldn't consider that this driver had 'killed' your loved one by their selfish actions?



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,896 ✭✭✭✭Spook_ie


    Heavier traffic density here, so you don't need to tax your imagination too much of what the situation might be in rush hour.




  • Registered Users Posts: 792 ✭✭✭Alias G


    There is still plenty of opportunity to make space for an emergency vehicle in this photo. The bollards only extend for maybe 25 metres. There is an empty bus lane ahead with space to pull in. Looks like the road to the RHS provides more space to pull in. All of the cars shown can move some small distance to the left. There may be less space than before. But I am not buying it that an emergency vehicle won't get down that street. Again, if emergency vehicles were getting delayed to any significant extent, we would be hearing a lot more about. But we aren't.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I would find it impossible to forgive someone who injured anyone in a car accident if they were over the limit for driving.

    Its still an accident though and not a deliberate killing.

    I posted about an adult male cyclist mounting a footpath at speed on a busy friday afternoon and one of your fellow cycle zealots said if anyone had been hit by that dangerous cycling it was the motorists fault for not leaving this man enough room to get by. This man could well have killed an elderly person,is this an accident though or a "killing"

    I notice you had no words of re proof for your fellow cyclist as he tried to justify dangerous cycling behaviour.



  • Registered Users Posts: 792 ✭✭✭Alias G


    No one justified any of the above. Please come back with any quote that supports what you are claiming in relation to defending the cyclist in your anecdote.



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,896 ✭✭✭✭Spook_ie


    That "Bus Lane" I think you'll find is a mandatory cycle lane (solid white line)



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  • Registered Users Posts: 792 ✭✭✭Alias G


    There is a bus lane or left turn l inside of the cycle lane. Not sure what difference it makes anyway, both the cycle lane and bus lane provide space to pull in for an emergency vehicle.



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