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Autumn Internationals 2022

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,503 ✭✭✭swiwi_


    The state of this forum



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,154 ✭✭✭✭Neil3030


    Unpack this though.

    Barnes and his family received abuse and threats. They would not have received this abuse were it not for Erasmus's behaviour.

    Does your logic extend to them? Should they just get off social media, because it's a cesspit anyway?

    Just because a context is already bad or unpleasant, doesn't mean that a person's actions can't directly make it worse. And it also doesn't grant that person outright immunity for their actions.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,790 ✭✭✭✭Burkie1203


    Rassie Is targeting refs, he is deliberately whipping up hate and vitriol at refs and their families. Regardless of what you think, that's disgusting.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,381 ✭✭✭Yurt2


    Gracious, what is going on with this thread? 🤣



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,044 ✭✭✭Yeah_Right


    Do you understand the reach and influence of social media? Telling someone they should just ignore posts that might bother them and that'll be the end of it is pretty stupid. Especially when the person posting is in a position of influence and high standing.

    You might want to read up on the role of social media in modern society.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,735 Mod ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    I initially defended Rassie back when all this carry on started.

    He’s gone way beyond the line tho, and world rugby really need to make an example of him at this stage. It’s not acceptable.

    And am fully expecting BigBok to call me a c*ck now.



  • Subscribers Posts: 41,915 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    Ah rassies just being a dick....



    Head



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 39,026 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    If they got death threats from social media posts then isn't shutting down social media platforms completely the right thing to do for the safety of everybody?

    It's not what was said it's the reactions of the idiots reading it. Same as a bunch on here would be all for lynching Rassie.

    Can you specifically say that Rassie's comments led to the death threats. What about the comments of the wife of Cheslin Kolbe? I'm sure there were others making comments as well.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,956 ✭✭✭TRC10




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 39,026 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    I said I don't think it's a big deal, that's not me defending him or criticising him. Do you understand that?

    I have my own opinion why he is doing this and I've posted that here. Maybe I'm overestimating his intelligence level by saying that.

    I think Wayne Barnes was atrocious, and I've seen a lot of that from him lately, in that game. You can go back to when the match was still on or just finished and you'll see that I posted the above.

    I don't like that there were death threats but that's a social media issue not what a person says. Imo large social media platforms are full of stupid people, that's how stupid people now have a voice. Years ago they were just ignored.

    I've grown tired of this now because it's feeling very social media and I'm not into that.

    This site used to be so much better than it is these days, it's like it's been taken over by Facebook and Twitter. We used to have intelligent conversations here believe it or not



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  • Registered Users Posts: 12,920 ✭✭✭✭stephen_n


    The mental gymnastics to defend Rassie’s deliberate and targeted attacks on referees and the game through social media. Are pretty amazing.

    1. Rassie being a good coach who helped the springboks win a World Cup. Has nothing to do with his bullying tactics on social media. Conflating the two is a strawman.
    2. Rassie is not just a Joe soap on Twitter, which means he has to be held to a higher standard.
    3. This is the second referee to receive death threats after he has targeted them. That’s not a coincidence.
    4. Rassie is just expressing his opinions. Free speech blah blah blah. Rassie is using cherry picked information to try and create a narrative. It’s not being presented or received by some as an opinion. It’s being treated as fact. When it is in reality Trump level disinformation.

    Rassie is free to say whatever he wants and face the consequences of his words. Just like everyone else on this planet. Unfortunately WR don’t seem strong enough to actually enforce those consequences.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Bristol beat South Africa A 26-18 last night, with a late SA A try putting a gloss on the scoreline.

    Jason Jenkins got a yellow in the 15th min for a dangerous tackle, that apparently the ref spent 5 mins debating over (according to whining SA fans on twitter anyway), so hopefully nothing more comes of that.

    Serious question marks about the quality of South African depth here. This is a Bristol team short their internationals, and currently sit 10th (second bottom) in the Premiership, with 2 wins out of 7.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,631 ✭✭✭lawrencesummers


    If you sat down and went through this thread there is only one logical conclusion you could come to.

    That twitter is a load of shyte.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,044 ✭✭✭Yeah_Right


    So the Springbok top team have lost both their tests this November and their second string side have lost to teams in the bottom 3 of the URC and the Premiership 😂 In short, the Boks are ****! No wonder Rassie is posting crap all over social media. He has to distract fans from how crap his team is.

    Finally, let's go Italy!! And please tell me the Boks are playing Perpignan next week 😁



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,330 ✭✭✭Former Former Former


    I guess that's where we differ. As a lifelong rugby fan, I do think it is a big deal that the head coach of the reigning world champions is accusing World Rugby of conspiracy and corruption against his team and inciting his team's fans into abusing referees on social media.

    If you think that's OK, then fine, we'll never see eye to eye. Such is the rich tapestry of life I guess.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,631 ✭✭✭lawrencesummers



    SH teams lose autumn internationals and they are crap.

    NH win autumn internationals and they are the best in the world.

    There is only one barometer of success on a global scale, its clear SH coaches are building towards the RWC, and history tells us that they almost always get it right.



  • Registered Users Posts: 336 ✭✭Rugbymad2020


    We go thru this every lions tour and every word cup,especially with the Irish fans talking themselves up.yet every time they get smashed.u would think u woudl have learnt by now



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,897 ✭✭✭TheRona


    The 'us against the world' mentality can be built on the training pitch and in the dressing room. It doesn't need to be done on social media.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,735 Mod ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    This is the exact same argument from 6 years ago except substitute “every time we play New Zealand”.

    We had previous lost all 28 Tests against them. We’ve beaten them 5-3 since.

    Or, put simply, past performance is no guarantee of future results.

    But at the moment, I understand why a SA fan may want to focus on past performances and possible future results rather than anything currently happening...



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  • Registered Users Posts: 336 ✭✭Rugbymad2020


    Nope I just think SA will go further in the word cup.even the bookies as bad as SA are playing are the same price as Ireland



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,790 ✭✭✭✭Burkie1203




  • Registered Users Posts: 24,767 ✭✭✭✭molloyjh


    It’s easy for you to think that it isn’t a big deal because you seem capable of closing your eyes and ignoring the behaviour and everything that this behaviour results in. You can shield yourself from it and see no repercussions. But that’s because you are choosing to do so. You are choosing to ignore what his actions are doing which enables a “no big deal” position. But is it really not a big deal that people received death threats because of what Rassie did? Do you really think people receiving death threats is “no big deal”?



  • Registered Users Posts: 11 Luminous Talent


    The problem with playing a game based purely on discipline, is that it stops the forwards doing stupid things on the pitch but it also prevents rugby being played at the maximum stakes physically by teams. Therefore, in my view mistakes are to be encouraged although stupidity is not.

    Technique at entering the ruck and in the tackle area is where most cards are dished out. If you don’t have physically imposing men like Aki it’s less likely you will get tackle cards. Ireland are a nation of smaller men in stature naturally hence those figures. 

    Also, the days of the Claw and other forwards making face palm moments at rucks are gone due to the nature of coaching we have had in this island for the past ten years. Ruck entry cards can be coached out of a team and it’s a testament to the coaching teams we have had that poor technique on entry and at contact are at the lowest of all nations. 

    But it breeds an atmosphere of prudence, and a stand offish type of game where we wait for our opponent to make mistakes instead of playing to win and taking risks. It’s not going out with abandon and winning the game outright. It’s can be construed as negativity and cagey. I prefer to see teams blow other teams off the park personally. Mistakes and cards included. 

    And let me say this again so I am not misrepresented, playing with full gusto including the odd card is better than standing off and playing negatively. But that does not include giving away stupid penalties and cards from braindead forwards doing stupid or lazy things.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11 Luminous Talent


    The hypocricy and manipulation of argument away from what Ireland and Leinster do towards what South Africa and Rassie do is really malevolent. I’ve seen all the said posters on this site who are laying blame at Rassie for inciting hatred and death threats against refs lay blame at referees feet dozens of times on this site over the years. And I rarely even go to Leinster games any more such is the level of hate and abuse shouted at referees from the Grandstand. Literally grown men on their feet spitting venom at referees in their hundred and thousands. A look at a bit more closer to home and yourselves would be in order. You all have a way of deflecting any blame from yourselves and putting it on your opponents when the real vitriol comes from within Ireland.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,316 ✭✭✭✭Clegg


    Which school did Rassie go to, Luminous?



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  • Registered Users Posts: 24,767 ✭✭✭✭molloyjh


    For starters, I don’t roar and shout at refs as you’re describing there so don’t feel I’m being hypocritical. Especially given that I call out that behaviour when I hear it (as posters on this forum can attest to).

    But secondly, and perhaps more importantly, there is a very big distinction to be drawn between a nobody in a stand at a game shouting abuse at a ref when (a) the ref cannot hear it, (b) the nobody has no real authority at all and (c) the only people who hear it are those in the immediate vicinity. The refs see what Rassie posts. He has authority because of his position in the game. He has a podium that most don’t ever have. I’d also draw a big distinction between heat of the moment stuff and premeditated, cynical and malicious actions carried out after the fact.

    I don’t condone abuse of referees in any form. And I call it out a lot, in person at games as well as online to anonymous internet posters and international coaches. But it’s possible to do that and also see a very important difference between the eejit in the stands in the heat of the moment and the coach online with deliberate and viscious intent. Both are bad. The latter is worse.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,316 ✭✭✭✭Clegg


    I think that's a dummy account of Rape of Lucretia, Molloy.

    No point arguing with him.



  • Subscribers Posts: 41,915 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    Let's play a game of spot the rereg troll



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,631 ✭✭✭lawrencesummers


    Im certainly not buying it, I can see the limitations of the Irish squad and its obvious to me that it will not last the rigors of a World Cup. There are probably 5 if not 6 /7 irreplaceable players in the Irish squad (Front row, Beirne, halfbacks and ringrose) and we might overcome losing one of them, maybe two but not 3.

    We can currently beat anybody on our day but we dont have the squad to beat everybody back to back, England could have beaten SA in the last final but they had played their final against NZ in the semi.

    SA have that squad, they have depth in a lot more positions, Australia are getting towards it but wont make it by next year, NZ are close to it but have problems in some key positions and France certainly have it.

    And all that is before you look at how the (terribly boring) SA gameplan is perfectly suited to cup rugby. Keep it tight, hard, attritional and kick for territory all day long, then have players on the wing that can make the most from a half gap.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,044 ✭✭✭Yeah_Right


    @lawrencesummers what you say about the Boks' game plan being suited to knock out, cup rugby is unfortunately so true. Them winning the RWC next year would be awful for the sport.



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I go to the RDS all the time and I can't remember the last time I've heard actual abuse thrown at ref's, certainly anything that could qualify as abuse is not being heard down on the pitch. I hear people disagreeing with the ref around laws and technicalities or shouting about a forward pass but I'm obviously sitting in the only well mannered part of the ground away from all the big meanies.

    About the closest thing to actual abuse is when people boo decisions. I'm not a fan, but ref's know well enough to ignore the theatrics.

    Lot's of 'but what about' on here in an effort to defend Rassie and that speaks volumes. The guy is one of the loudest voices on social media in the entire world of rugby and one of the loudest voices full stop. He is the current world cup winning coach. He is not being measured in what he is tweeting, he is only focusing on mistakes that impact South Africa negatively as opposed to ones that go the other way and mostly he's being a complete child about it. His behaviour is unbelievably embarrassing and I'd be disgusted if he was still coaching in Ireland.

    Wouldn't waste my time arguing with people who can't see the issue, they either don't get the values of the game or are choosing to ignore them rather than accept valid criticism.

    As I've said - World Rugby need to start sanctioning South African Rugby rather than Rassie at this point.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,381 ✭✭✭Yurt2


    I'm praying for Italy to beat the Saffers this weekend, if only to see some posters here go full Chernobyl 😂



  • Registered Users Posts: 336 ✭✭Rugbymad2020


    Bit like when u get knocked out the WC early as usual.boys vs men when it counts



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,330 ✭✭✭Former Former Former


    I was thinking today about how complimentary the Kiwis were when we beat them during the summer, and how all the focus was on what they are doing wrong, what do they need to fix.

    The contrast is incredible.

    Was also thinking that it's funny that my Twitter is full of mentions of Rassie and Elon Musk, two successful South Africans who claim to be mavericks but in reality are deeply, deeply insecure about what people think of them and would literally say or do anything just to have people like them.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,631 ✭✭✭lawrencesummers




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,168 ✭✭✭T-Maxx


    Some bizarre **** on this thread but the last paragraph here takes the cherry.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,381 ✭✭✭Yurt2


    I move that this thread become the official wind-up a Saffer thread of boards.

    We have 'em all corralled into one place here - Rassie has them overstimulated and agitated like a bag of unspayed cats. Good clean fun. And, it's a whole year until the World Cup kicks off! So much scope for acitivities.

    I'll get the ball rolling: The decline of South African rugby is directly correlated with the decline of the Afrikaans language. Charleze Theron agrees, and she's won an Oscar y'know...



  • Registered Users Posts: 336 ✭✭Rugbymad2020


    Yip and the Irish only know how to play rugby when they have foreign players and coaches as they can’t breed their own,and still get sent home from a WC early



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,044 ✭✭✭Yeah_Right


    Very true. But I would prefer the champions to be a team that plays attractive rugby. So not South Africa.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 39,026 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    Okay I was finished with this but I'll just respond to this.

    Firstly can you say with absolute certainty that Rassie's comments resulted in death threats? Would the comments of Kolbe's wife lead to death threats? Would the comments of somebody else have led to these death threats?

    Everybody is entitled to air their opinions too.

    More importantly, how can you blame a person for the actions of idiots on social media? Would you agree with me that social media is a big problem if it's leading to death threats? I'd be of the opinion that we should shut down all social media sites for the safety of everybody.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,381 ✭✭✭Yurt2


    We're the real Rainbow nation Saffer.

    Give me your tired, your poor underpaid backrows, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, The wretched refuse of your teeming basketball Super Rugby shore - we'll make international players out of them, and pay them in a currency that doesn't crap itself.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,638 ✭✭✭Dubinusa


    Jaysus! I assume the Rand is in the shitter? One thing I like about the boks is there's no foreign influence. 2020 is right in a way, all other sides have a gaggle of foreigners among the squad.

    But Ireland and Munster turned a bang average player, into an international. Most leagues have a load of Boks, Aussies and Kiwis.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,381 ✭✭✭Yurt2


    Their marquee player for years "Beast" was a card-carrying Zimbabwean poach.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,154 ✭✭✭✭Neil3030


    Out of interest,

    How come Mtawarira could play for the Boks (born in Zimbabwe) but Madosh Tambwe (born in DR Congo, but with an SA passport) could not?



  • Registered Users Posts: 24,767 ✭✭✭✭molloyjh


    Rassie was the one who claimed his actions led to death threats so I’d be fairly sure that did happen. He stirred that up with absolutely no concern for the consequences. I know people these days seem to have an issue with personal responsibility but while those threatening people have to accept theirs, so do the people who stir the pot. This nonsense of “everyone has the right to express their opinions” doesn’t finish “regardless of the consequences”. As adults we all have responsibilities as well as rights. What I always find bizarre is the people who often strongly champion the latter are really opposed to the former.

    Rassies actions have consequences. He can’t (and you can’t) chose to ignore those because “opinions”.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,735 Mod ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    I see Itxa’s back… oh good…



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,599 ✭✭✭✭CIARAN_BOYLE



    Madosh could have played for South Africa. Nienabar is just stupid and lied about Madosh not being a citizen. At least thats what Madosh says.

    You don't even need citizenship to play for a country but there is a South African law mandating it.

    There was chaos in South Africa about Mtawarira. SARU broke the law for a few years fielding him despite him not being a citizen. Then a South African minister just made him a citizen be decree without being properly nationalised.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,154 ✭✭✭✭Neil3030


    He's going to be class for France in a few years.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,638 ✭✭✭Dubinusa




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,631 ✭✭✭lawrencesummers


    You dont need to look outside your boarders when every player is such a fan of having ridiculously high levels of “brocolli” in their diet from a young age.



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