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Russia - threadbanned users in OP

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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,273 ✭✭✭xxxxxxl


    Where we getting 100k troops. Losing as in KIA ? There would not even be that many Injured. Unless were thinking of the russian losses.



  • Registered Users Posts: 23,246 ✭✭✭✭Dyr




  • Posts: 6,192 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]



    us estimates


    40K civilian killed aswell,they've paid an horrendous toll.....and it's only going to escalate from here,as it moves from skirmish to pitches battles to dislodge Russians from entrenched defensive positions


    Meaningful peace talks are needed badly imo,otherwise we're looking at a civilian catastrophe next year and a likely breakdown in civil life,which will cause a lurch into civil war conditions with Wagner group likely killing with impunity aswell in the occupied regions



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,416 ✭✭✭Jinglejangle69


    It’s Baltic out there.


    Those poor Ukrainians freezing at the moment with no electricity and heat.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,849 ✭✭✭Polar101


    It's coming from that Mark Milley interview from last week (?) where he estimated the Russian losses to be at around 100k (wounded and killed), and Ukrainian losses "probably the same".

    Edit: source added




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  • Registered Users Posts: 12,568 ✭✭✭✭machiavellianme




  • Registered Users Posts: 8,520 ✭✭✭jmreire


    The facade of SMO (special military operation) has well and truly been wiped away, its frequently heard now, even the propaganda show run by the 3 puppeteers, Skabeeva, Simonyan and Solovyov. Even back in the heady days leading up to the invasion, Putin had said on Russian TV that if the Mother / Fatherland were under attack, he would go nuclear. In the last few months, when Ukraine started to turn the tide against Russia, there was a big increase in nuclear talk from Russia until China told Putin to shut it, this was reinforced by Biden, when he had his department brief their opposite Nrs on the Russian side as to what exactly would happen, and happen very quickly, if any nuclear device or so-called dirt bomb was used. Basically, he could say "Good-Bye" to his black sea fleet, and his military on the territory of Ukraine. And since then, the nuclear rhetoric has indeed been dialed back. But there's another reason why he will not go nuclear, and that's his own life, it's the most important thing in existence to him, and I doubt very much if he will risk that.



  • Registered Users Posts: 20,053 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    A Ukrainian commander said there was a 1:5 ratio for their losses vs the Orcs. Given the incredible level of morale on display in every video I look at, I can well believe it. That US general is out of the loop.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,520 ✭✭✭jmreire


    Basically, when someone is pushing for "peace talks". and using humanitarian grounds as the basis for their position, it always seems to be that Ukraine has to "accept" the Russian position. Now why would they agree to that? when in every location that Ukraine has liberated, thousands and thousands of horror stories are emerging, Torture, Rape, Murder. So what's changed? The Russians will change their barbaric ways? There will be peace talks only on Ukrainian terms, and no others. And what civil war are you talking about? In Ukraine???? Forget it!!! Russian atrocities have welded the Ukrainian people together into a solid block, that's being reinforced each day, Putin's plan has backfired. And soon now, he will have his own civil insurrection to worry about, it has already started with more and more soldiers refusing to go and fight for him.....wait until they start coming back home and spreading the truth of what Putins war really is about.



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,764 Mod ✭✭✭✭riffmongous




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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,402 ✭✭✭nigeldaniel


    I myself have no desire to watch any videos or links of anyone being blown up, run over by a tank, or beaten to death with hammers.

    so back to one of my boring posts and links about other things.

    This story tells me that the USA is still 100% behind Ukraine and has not wavered in the least despite what the last week might suggest.


    The US has all but said if Ukraine fancies their chances at retaking Crimea then the US will support them in that endeavour.

    Quote from the link

     Austin said. “We won’t [and] haven’t prescribed to the Ukrainians what they can and cannot do. And so our focus is to continue to provide them the means to be successful in their endeavors ... Crimea is an issue to be thought through and sorted out by the Ukrainian leadership.”

    As for the pow-pow between President Joe and Zelensky... I think that was a bit of play acting on both guy's parts aimed at duping Putin.

    Dan.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,776 ✭✭✭zv2


    “Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities.” — Voltaire



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Are the new Crimean trenches within shooting range ?



  • Posts: 6,192 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    At no point have I said,nor suggested anyone accept Russia's position,nor is it a precondition of a peacetalks....any functioning adult can see this reality


    Ukrainian executed collaborators in recently liberated regions,this will eventually feed down in occupied regions and will turn on those they view as collaborating with Russia/wagnar group,a rudimentary understanding of group dynamics would explain this.....the longer this war rumbles on,the more bitter the fighting will get,and as civil society breaks down with fear/suspicion of others/neighbours the more the inevitable bloody balkens style civil war will be


    You don't have to support Russia,to want peace talks,otherwise we are looking at likely contagion into other countries in the region,and the spillover of another 8 to 10 million refugees entering a Europe headed for a massive recession......you post speaks of blind optimism,same type from start, which believed any day now the sanctions will stop this war.......


    with NATO/yanks simply refusing to put troops on the ground,Ukraine is likely looking at losing 500K citizens over next few years between soldiers and civilians....I disbelieve that peace talks should be discounted



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,446 ✭✭✭badabing106


    That's a meaningless statement. They haven't prescribed to what Ukraine "can and can't do?"



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,907 ✭✭✭fly_agaric


    The Russian "persona non grata" list could result in some more of their embassy staff getting the bum's rush out of Ireland, so that would be a positive effect of it IMO.




  • Registered Users Posts: 3,776 ✭✭✭zv2


    It was a very short video, a few seconds. I thought it was a joke vid. Might have been too...

    “Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities.” — Voltaire



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I find it remarkable that while MI5 confirmed this week that 600 Russian officials have been expelled from Europe this year, of which 400 have been confirmed to be spies, there has been such little focus on the Russian embassy officials in Dublin



  • Registered Users Posts: 415 ✭✭Mullinabreena


    "And what civil war are you talking about? In Ukraine???? Forget it!!! Russian atrocities have welded the Ukrainian people together into a solid block, that's being reinforced each day"


    Definitely! Any of my Russian friends (which is only 5 to be fair) who live in Ukraine have #Russiaterroriststate all over their socials.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,907 ✭✭✭fly_agaric


    Well, I suppose if they are trying to decide who to expel and want to know (and are completely in the dark - certainly possible!) who the most likely official "spies" in the bunch are (if they are not all spying away!) the British or a few other more security conscious EU countries can probably gladly fill them in on it.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,273 ✭✭✭xxxxxxl


    Well it defiantly has a troll farm in the basement. I would be looking at the level of internet traffic coming out of the place. I wager they have 40 gbps connections going into there.



  • Registered Users Posts: 16,673 ✭✭✭✭astrofool


    This is just demented, but move on from the hot air.

    If peace talks are mooted, what are your starting points, what is the endpoint and explain why those are your endpoints.

    This is your sole opportunity to put on big boy pants and not be lumped in with the putin apologists, use it wisely.



  • Posts: 6,192 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    What is demented in it?,looks to me the most plausible scenario over next 6 to 18 months tbh

    A bloody civil war is a reasonable expectation to occur when civil society breaks down under occupation and collapse of public/utility services.....this is pretty much what happened in Iraq after the invasion,insurgents targeted infrastructure and within months it defended into a sectarian civil war....in occupied Ukraine (as with any other occupied country),you have sections of population that for right or wrong will collaborate with Russians,as war drags on increasing bitterly,it would seem to me a reasonable expectation that it would defend into civil war conditions egged on by occupying/Ukrainians forces



    Surely the logical endpoint of discussion is an agreed withdrawal of russian forces to pre-war borders and an agreed international financial package to rebuild Ukraine??

    The notion Ukraine while losing large numbers of troops and relying on goodwill of outside nations for arms are going to be able to dislodge Russia from defensive positions is something I don't think is plausible....they likely will make it difficult and have an endless ground war for Russia to hold it,but a.complete withdrawal of troops without peace talks is stuff of keyboard warriors fantasy and not remotely based in reality and cost 100s of thousands of lives to achieve



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,412 ✭✭✭Homelander


    The basic problem with this post is that your hypothesis assumes the worst possible scenario for Ukraine and the best possible position for Russia.

    Both are incredibly unlikely to hold true.

    The Iraqi situation isn't remotely comparable. That conflict exposed long-standing and deep-rooted cultural and sectarian divides within that country, which was basically held together forcefully by a dictator. Once he was gone, it reverted to unstable tribalism on both a local and wider scale for a long time.

    Same thing happened in Afghanistan with the collapse of the national army post US withdrawal. A collective of people bound together as a country, who had no real interest in being part of said country, no real sense of national identity, just a forced collective of regions and tribes across a vast landscape.

    Ukraine is completely different, they have a rock solid cultural and national unity, and are solidly unified against the Russian invasion.

    This war couldn't have gone any worse for Russia, nor any better for Ukraine, given the circumstances. The idea that they now should enter into negotiations with a vicious, unwanted invader is wrong. Russia is free to withdraw at any time.

    Anyone who even insinuates that both sides have an equal responsibility to end this war is plain wrong. The onus is entirely on Russia. They launched this illegal invasion, they're the ones perpetrating war crimes on a scale not seen in Europe for decades.

    If Ukraine decides to come to the table, fine, but let it be on their terms, they are the ones fighting this war against an unjust, illegal, and vicious invasion, which they have every right to resist to the fullest extent possible and for as long as they see fit.

    Russia is losing this war as it currently stands. Ukraine is fighting a war of survival, Russia is fighting a war of conquest. Very different things, and very different war aims to try and achieve and pursue even medium term.



  • Registered Users Posts: 265 ✭✭Strand1970


    I know Ukraine want all their territory back but they don't have the military capability to do it without the west funding and I reckon the general public are switching off with the daily updates and just want it finished, I think most people here want to help them but let's face it we have no historical connection with Ukraine and people will eventually say when will this end. This is what russia is hoping for. Most conflicts come to an end by negotiation. Ukraine will have to accept they won't get everything back now and do what we did and accept what's rhe best they can achieve. Ireland has to start acting like a mature neutral state like Switzerland if we really want to be neutral and have a military to protect atleast our key assets



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,273 ✭✭✭xxxxxxl


    Ukraine will not stop until the boarder are back. They have made this abundantly clear. The west could stop all aid completely and they will still continue to fight until the end. You have two options support them or leave them to it and be culpable for a loss of life. I can't see the west doing that it's Europe not somewhere in Africa or the Middle east.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,416 ✭✭✭Jinglejangle69




  • Posts: 6,192 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Such a rock solid cultural identity theyve been fighting an insurgency with 8 years?

    Such a solid cultural identity that non would collaborate with Russians as occupation drags on??,because those folk executed recently for collaboration would surely qs your logic?


    I agree the war could not gone much worse for Russia and vice versa for Ukraine,though a deployment of 3-400K NATO/American troops would turn the tide decisively as opposed to em sitting on hands..



    Russia is pounding Ukrainian cities into dust,similar to it's Syrian carryon Vs isis,collapsing it's infrastructure,killing tens of thousands of innocents,forcing millions to flee,with almost zero pushback or attacks on russian soil,the notion they will just pack up sticks and go home,without peace negotiations or be forced from defensive positions to the border without horrendous loss of life isn't realistic IMO.....given Ukraine can (and have) legally slaughter soldiers in retreat,what imperative exists for these soldiers to retreat from relatively strong defensive positions to open ground??,


    Short of Ukraine deploying weak nuclear weapons to break the deadlock next April/may and no peacetalks to allow russian evacuation safely,they are looking at another several hundred thousand deaths on both sides.....peace talks are not palatable,but the alternative of what will be needed is a brutal prolonged bloodbath,with high possibility of borderline civil war conditions breaking out....


    plus the unmeasured risk of contagion particularly in Belarus,which needed russian help to quell protests last year,with no russian help available,an armed uprising cannot be ruled out,pushing millions more refugees into Europe



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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,273 ✭✭✭xxxxxxl


    They have not been fighting an insurgency for 8 years. They have been fighting russians. The land they took this week tells a very different story part of russia voted to join russia yet everyone was out hugging the Ukrainians. People buried flags and brough them back out.



This discussion has been closed.
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