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Little changes we can make to normalise cycling and encourage its uptake

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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,278 ✭✭✭Unrealistic


    So I'm a 'cycling zealot' now? That gave me a good laugh as I sit here simultaneously trying to sort out F1 tickets for next summer and planning the 430km round trip drive I'm doing tomorrow morning (as a matter of choice, just because I enjoy driving, even though a bus would be easier and bring me to the door).

    So what was it that gave the game away and unmasked me as a 'cycling zealot'? Was it my empathy with vulnerable round users, whether they are on foot or on wheels? Was it my obvious unhappiness at the lack of seriousness with which this country views the 100+ needless deaths and 1000+ life changing injuries on our roads each year, the majority of which are caused by driver misbehaviour, but which others are willing to dismiss as 'accidents' as if they are somehow unavoidable. Yep, I guess only a 'cycling zealot' could care about something as unimportant as that.



  • Registered Users Posts: 75 ✭✭b v


    Could a solution (albeit an an expensive one) be retractable bollards? Only Garda, firemen and paramedics can lower them with a remote device.



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,896 ✭✭✭✭Spook_ie


    Hardly good research, an article from a single insurance broker with no methodology ( other than policies are sold as cyclist/driver policies ) Without the methodology being given it's just as likely that cyclist/drivers make less claims because they cycle more and drive less, and the only "actual" research from Australia is hardly cast iron in its conclusions.

     "In a lab setting Beanland and her associates found that cyclist-drivers responded to fresh information more quickly than motorists who did not cycle. "



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,896 ✭✭✭✭Spook_ie


    It's not a new found interest, I have the interest every time I meet emergency vehicles on the road based on how best i can facilitate their passing of myself, some options now being curtailed by the proliferation of bollards along side the road.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,278 ✭✭✭Unrealistic


    That's already in place in Galway, and presumably elsewhere, with the retractable bollards that control entry to the central pedestrian streets. It's also use extensively in the Netherlands, where barriers are in place to prevent rat-running through residential zones. But the retractable bollards are very expensive. They're viable for prevent access through a specific point but making a long line of them retractable along the side of a bike lane would be cost prohibitive. But the plastic bollards, especially the shorter 'orcas', are designed to be driven over by the emergency services in any case. Something plenty of white van drivers are already aware of as they do exactly that to park in cycle lanes.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 11,993 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997



    Based on the most of the examples in this thread bollards are used to stop parking which narrowed the space available to everyone.

    The argument of against bollards is basically let's solve the problem of too much traffic by adding even more traffic.



  • Registered Users Posts: 28,939 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    If you want to help emergency services, drive less, cycle more. You’ll leave more room for them on the road, and you’ll be less likely to call them out for your heart attack or stroke.



  • Registered Users Posts: 28,939 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko




  • Registered Users Posts: 28,939 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko




  • Registered Users Posts: 10,896 ✭✭✭✭Spook_ie


    I read it, it would appear to be a study relating to distracted driving, I don't see anything in it relating to cyclists making better drivers, perhaps you might highlight the sentence, paragraph whatever that relates to it.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 10,896 ✭✭✭✭Spook_ie


    I'll let you know how suicidal and depressed I become if I don't manage to cover my and my families financial needs by driving less but thank you for your faux concern.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    But, but, is cycling not the most dangerous endeavour ever undertaken by man, I mean should we not all strap dashcams on our heads as we move around so all motorist sins can be transmitted to the Gardai.

    Arent hundreds of thousands of people knocked off their bikes every year and being brought in ambulances to hospitals.

    Im a bit confused.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Totally misunderstanding the point here.

    Ok,accidents I am aware of

    Married couple I know driving on holidays hit a child cyclist who cycles straight out from a driveway and is killed instantly, nothing the driver could have done, no blame attached to them by family or the Gardai.

    Child at beach with family see ice cream van and runs across the road and driver has no time to react, child killed,driver didnt kill him, its an accident.

    Alcoholic late at night crosses a busy dual carriageway stumbling dressed in dark clothes, motorist travelling at correct road speed doesnt see him in time and alcoholic is killed, neither Gardai nor family blame the driver.

    Young man with learning disability cyclists in an insane fashion witnessed by locals who say he will be killed eventually, he heads out in the dark weaving as usual between traffic, breaks red lights, enters roundabouts with traffic already on it, cycles against the traffic in the darkness, is inevitably killed, again motorist is not at fault.

    Mother drives to school gates with five children in the car, she brings the older children to school yard leaving three year old and baby in the car, shes human, its only for a couple of minute before judgy pants cyclists get going. Three year old gets out of the car through the boot and is hit by a motorist,thankfully not badly,his mother is responsible for this and not the driver who managed to bring the car to a stop but not before the child is hit.

    As compared to adult male cycling at full speed on a pavement with no concern for anyone else, knocks over and kills an elderly person, cyclist 100 hundred per cent at fault.

    PS, you stand in the way of a full grow adult cycling on an electric bike at speed at you and see what "knocking over" feels like, have you ever tried to lift one of those bikes,they are extremely heavy and capable of causing serious injury.



  • Registered Users Posts: 28,939 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Don’t suppose you’d like to share verifiable reports of any of those collisions, because I’ve a funny feeling that they never happened, outside of your twisted imagination.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    You want me to post the names of road traffic victims here,no, actually I wont,its immaterial whether you believe me or not.

    These victims of the road accidents were all personally known to me,thats enough for you, go on about your day now.

    I include the drivers of the cars as victims too, their lives were destroyed.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]




  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 49,397 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    As compared to adult male cycling at full speed on a pavement with no concern for anyone else, knocks over and kills an elderly person, cyclist 100 hundred per cent at fault.

    talk about cherry picking - you list a bundle of examples of motorists being a victim of chance and then give an example of a cyclist at fault which has happened possibly once in ireland so far this century.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,993 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    None of this has anything to do with improving cycling uptake.

    You're just derailing this thread at this point.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 49,397 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    anyway, i think this thread is a good example of why we don't have decent cycling facilities in ireland, as we have learned in the discussion about how to achieve that that motorists are the real victims in all this. the poor motorists seem to be constantly killing pedestrians, it's a terrible state of affairs for them.

    and the roads are too narrow for bicycles, but not for our ever-expanding cars.



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,896 ✭✭✭✭Spook_ie


    I think really people are saying the roads are too narrow to give exclusivity for a section of some roads to be given over to cyclists, how you square the circle, I know not but I'll still try not to run over cyclists and pedestrians.

    Too much damn paperwork if I do, too much risk of unjustified injury claims ( because I'm the one with insurance and a license ) plus the PTSD that I'd likely suffer from any tragic incidents



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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 49,397 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    again, i'll go back to lack of enforcement. a lot of cycling facilities already in place (which don't take space from motorists) would be usable if they weren't taken up by parked cars.

    i see the absurdity of it at least once a week; i live near a scout hall, and there are regularly cars parked in the cycle/bus lane outside, or partly or wholly on the footpath; 12 the other evening when i was coming home. it's due to parents parking there, picking up or dropping off their kids. and the irony is that 80m away, there's usually free (as in the parking charges end at 5pm) public parking, that they will have to have driven past to get to park outside the hall.

    that example is hardly the greatest issue in the grand scheme of things, but it shows how much impunity there is, that someone will drive past a free parking place to park in a bus lane or on a path, to spare themselves an 80m walk.

    but it means that cyclists coming past often have to move out of the bus lane into the 'normal' lane and it's just another example of 'what's the point in creating cycling infrastructure if cyclists can't use it'. and then people complain about cyclists not using cycle lanes, leaving cyclists puzzled as to 'well, if it's that important that cyclists must use cycle lanes, why are you giving out to me and not to the people who block the cycle lanes?'



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,993 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    Cars have had 100% of the road for a 100yrs. Hasn't solved anything. Time to try something else that has worked.

    What is also clear is that our planning and design of cycle infrastructure is lackluster to put it mildly..



  • Registered Users Posts: 75 ✭✭b v


    Point taken 😂

    This is probably one of those situations where law abiding cyclists and motorists have to put up with bollards because of the cohort who think rules don’t apply to them.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,217 ✭✭✭Viscount Aggro


    Ranelagh is a disaster for cyclists.

    A large stretch of the road in the village has a cycle lane, drivers are parking on it constantly, with no sanctions.

    Also, cars pull straight out of the side roads. As a pedalist, one must assume a car is coming at you sideways from junctions.



  • Registered Users Posts: 28,939 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    All such incidents would be in the public domain in press reports, court reports, coroner inquest reports. I’ve never heard of any such incidents and I follow these matters closely. I believe you’re making up stories about dead children to further your agenda of preserving entitlement for motorists.



  • Registered Users Posts: 28,939 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    You do seem quite confused. You seem to be drawing some conclusion from the use of helmetcams, while dashcams are widely used by motorists?



  • Registered Users Posts: 28,939 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko



    Well, that escalated quickly. Is there any chance that you do some non-work related driving perhaps? Or any chance of you finding work doing something other than driving, if you so chose?



  • Registered Users Posts: 28,939 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    I thought this sentence was fairly interesting.

    Cyclists spend 21 per cent less time speeding than the typical drivers, and have 14 per cent fewer hard brakes. They are also generally less distracted than the average driver by about six per cent.

    Do you want some more research for you to nitpick? Wrong font size perhaps this time?




  • Registered Users Posts: 10,896 ✭✭✭✭Spook_ie


    A recent study conducted by Frontiers Media found that cyclists consistently make better drivers than other road users.

    The study, which was conducted by Ole J. Johansson and Aslak Fhyri and funded by the Institute of Transport Economics, found that cyclists know the dangers of the road and that knowledge translates to their driving behaviour, and how often they use their phone while driving.

    Cyclists spend 21 per cent less time speeding than the typical drivers, and have 14 per cent fewer hard brakes. They are also generally less distracted than the average driver by about six per cent.


    I myself thought that perhaps you might have followed the ACTUAL link to the study rather than the grablines ( you're not a Daily Mail reader perchance?)

    I mean if you want to just stick to grablines then perhaps this quote demonstrates the futility of your currant argument

    Cyclists spend 21 per cent less time speeding than the typical drivers, and have 14 per cent fewer hard brakes. They are also generally less distracted than the average driver by about six per cent.

    The study also found that cyclists spend less time actively texting or using apps by six per cent, but supposedly do spend 11 per cent more time than average with handheld calls.

    This is a drastic contrast to those who use aeroplane as a regular means of transport, who supposedly spend 35 per cent more time speeding than the average driver. Frequent fliers are more distracted overall, spending ten per cent more of their time with phone-related activities. They also spend 77 per cent more time on hands-free phone calls than the typical driver.

    Public transit commuters have also picked up bad habits according to the report; commuters are seven per cent more distracted than the average driver – they text more often, make more hands-free, and handheld phone calls. But, they also spend 11 per cent less time speeding and make nearly 13 per cent less hard brakes.


    All in all I think I can say that the link you posted is complete shite.


    Do I even want to bother with your second link given the quality ( total lack of ) of the first.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 10,896 ✭✭✭✭Spook_ie


    Despite my initial better idea of ignoring your link I did click on it, SURPRISE SURPRISE it links to the same research paper and contributors as your first one from the insurance company.

    Was drawn to a couple of lines though

    Beanland admits the experiment was not a perfect analogue for real-world experience,

    and

    Additionally, it could be that the cyclist-drivers were putting in extra effort during the experiment than they might have, to make sure cyclists were seen in a positive light.

    So fairly non conclusive then.



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