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Russia - threadbanned users in OP

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  • Registered Users Posts: 20,053 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    Funny how you speak for the west, when were you appointed?



  • Registered Users Posts: 34,930 ✭✭✭✭o1s1n
    Master of the Universe


    Yes Ireland is now in ruins because of Russia invading Ukraine.

    ...

    What are you on about you absolute space cadet?



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Thanks for the brief version 🤗😀

    The Ukrainians are very capable people, and were some of the best scientists etc. during the USSR… I can see Ukraine thriving more and more as it embraces the West… which of course is what Putin detests, as it shows up his corrupt/mafia state.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,159 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    Yep but current and newly found jingoism trumps the recent past and facts. Doesn't do much for objective reasoning to boot.

    Ukraine was one of the poorest and most corrupt nations in Europe and was widely seen and reported as such before the Russian invasion. However unlike Russia it was also reported and seen that Ukraine was trying to improve and was doing so.

    It was also seen and reported to be a hotbed of Far Right wing "nazis" particularly in the east and the civil war there. However as that's the current boogyman of some in Western "liberal" thought that was exaggerated(QV outlets like the BBC). Now it's pretty much ignored because it suits(QV the very same BBC). Never mind that there are more and more organised and fully government backed "nazis" in Russia and mainstream Russian politics and culture to a large degree would have the average right on pride flags in their bio suburban westerner crying into their ethically sourced vegan burgers.

    Most of all, and regardless of which flag one wants to wave, or which reality one wants to believe; the actual reality is millions wouldn't be displaced, many tens of thousands wouldn't be dead or crippled, Ukrainains and Russians and a host of other negatives, if Russia hadn't invaded. There are many reasons for this conflict, but the conflict itself and the misery of it are all on Russia.

    A compromise is a near certainty. How much of one and when are the questions. Way back in this thread, after Russia was chased back from Kyiv my take was that when the dust settled and papers were signed Crimea would stay Russian, Donbas too and that the part still up in the air is the land bridge between them. Not a lot has changed to make me think so differently. Crimea has been "Russified" for nearly a decade and would be their hard line in the sand. Donbas is and was a clusterfúck and now since this invasion many if not most of those who would be loyal to Ukraine have either fled or been killed. IMHO leave the Russians to it. Set it up as a demilitarised buffer zone. It'll bleed Russian resources.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,967 ✭✭✭Cordell


    Well that's the answer why they have so many people at the embassy - it's a training camp for trolls and unfortunately boards.ie is their training and testing grounds. If there is a positive response here they will spread it to the wider audience.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,412 ✭✭✭Homelander


    Right putting aside the fact that I did address those points let's go through them and hold your hand.

    1. Civil War in Ukraine. This is nothing but a fantasy in your head which you are attempting to post as some sort of fact. It's so far fetched and based on nothing that not even Russia itself has really talked about this. Your buzz words like "societal collapse", "fracture" and attack each other" are based on nothing but a romance novel of the mind. You have made comparison to Iraq, but it has been pointed out to you, in detail, why that is a pointless comparison. The reason Ukraine has survived and weathered this invasion so well is literally national unity.
    2. Russia defences on the ground. No-one said they are irrelevant. You invented that word. What people have said, is that Russia defences are poor, and have proven to be poor, repeatedly, even when people made claims like "They will never breach Kherson's defences", etc. Unlike your claim that Ukraine is somehow on the brink of civil war, for which there's no evidence, there's any amount of evidence that the Russian army is an absolute joke given it's budget and size, and is massively under-performing, to put it mildly.
    3. No-one said peace talks are unnecessary. Another word you invented. What people are saying is that Ukraine has no need to enter peace talks on Russia's terms. Why would they? They're beating the brakes off Russia at the moment, figuratively and literally given their small size relative to Russia paper strength. Ukraine can decide when Ukraine wants to enter talks, and they hold that power precisely because they are giving Russia such a bloody nose.
    4. Ukraine doesn't need to strike back at Russia internally. As of this second, Russia has been humiliated, it's economy is in tatters, it has literally zero chance of winning in Ukraine. It is the invader, the launcher of an illegal war, the perpetrator of war crimes, the one holding the world to ransom over one pathetic man's imperial vision. Ukraine is the one fighting for survival. From the start this was Russia's war to lose, and they are losing it extremely badly.
    5. Your ridiculous claims that Ukraine can only make gains by deploying nuclear weapons. Putting aside the generally brain-dead sentiment of this claim, which flies in the fact of the fact that the UKR army is pumelling Russia, and the fact that Ukraine don't even have nuclear weapons. Why are you saying Ukraine would have to deploy nuclear weapons? As opposed to Russia, which is actually floundering, and actively threatening not just Ukraine but the entire west with nuclear weapons every other day.

    Your argument, again, is for reasons unknown speculating the absolutely best and most ridiculously unlikely possible outcome for Russia, while simultaneously predicting the equally most far-fetched pessimistic outcome for Ukraine. It basically amounts to the classic "Ukraine should surrender because they can't win", despite the fact that the entire world is watching Russia lose.....and it is absolutely their war to lose.



  • Registered Users Posts: 265 ✭✭Strand1970


    Ukraine has alot of resources with great potential if corruption was reduced. I can see it eventually joining the EU to transition towards a more western european ecomony. This is what Russia fears, a strong democrate Ukraine that they can't control. Russia will end up with bits of Eastern Ukraine but that will just bleed away their resources over the years while the rest of the Ukraine can rebuild and move on. The Russians utterly failed in Ukraine but getting them out of all together is a different matter. Calling people Russia bots because they dont have the same option as yourself is pointless. Everyone has a different viewpoint, no one here is defending the Russians they are callous scumbags, but there will come a point in the any conflict when talks must happen. I wouldn't trust the Russia one bit, the UN or some neutral force will need to patrol any future boarder.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,776 ✭✭✭zv2


    “Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities.” — Voltaire



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,159 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    boards.ie is their training and testing grounds

    🤣 Apparently some were at the vodka last night, well after reading that the funny smelling tobacco is in play. Any spare? Because that's some good stuff.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,776 ✭✭✭zv2


    “Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities.” — Voltaire



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  • Registered Users Posts: 16,672 ✭✭✭✭astrofool


    So your big boy pants solution for peace talks right now is that Russia will just walk away? What of Crimea? I thought you were delusional on the SF thread but this takes the biscuit.

    But ok, peace talks where russia fully withdraws, how does one instigate that? You know, besides thoughts and prayers.



  • Registered Users Posts: 20,053 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    He's out of the loop, and in no position to count bodies, that's why he 'estimates' Ukrainians are in a position to physically count bodies, and according to this, they publish full lists of their losses and don't hide them from relatives or their populace. According to that, the losses are 1:5. If the general was counting civillian deaths as well, then that's a very different matter.



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,826 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    Is it wrong to execute collaborators and informers?


    It was done here, one would want to be certain though.


    I would consider it an important thing to do.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,525 ✭✭✭Curious_Case


    Excellent post and a very accurate summary.

    Ukrainian success is so close now that the withdrawal of Western support would be ridiculous.

    Signals from exiled Russian journalists are now indicating that Putin is indeed being perceived as a loser and that "beneath the veneer" things are changing among his circle.



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,898 ✭✭✭✭Discodog


    How about allowing Russia to keep Crimea, Russia give up Donbas & as compensation Ukraine join NATO?

    NATO membership could be a serious bargaining chip.



  • Registered Users Posts: 20,053 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    Very impressive for a country where conscripts have to buy their own equipment and are issued ancient rusty weapons that need a lot of work. Somhow I doubt they are spending anything on any such thing.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,520 ✭✭✭jmreire


    The path to end corruption in Ukraine began in 2013, with the Maidan protests and removal of the Russian stooge, Yanukovych. That broke the link with Russia and its lifelong endemic corruption. Given time, and EU membership, Ukraine will become less and less corrupt, but on the other hand Russia will only sink lower and lower into the cesspit of corruption it has manufactured all by itself under Putin. A successful independent Ukraine is what Putin feared more than anything else, and that's what caused him to invade Ukraine.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,402 ✭✭✭nigeldaniel


    Someone will be rearranging the furniture in their bunker any day now.

    No room for Vladimir at any table it seems.

    Nothing irritates a Narcissistic Madman more than being put on the ignore list. Putin will soon be using up the last of his toys and then what! will he turn to the drink and fancy smokes?

    Dan.



  • Registered Users Posts: 16,479 ✭✭✭✭Loafing Oaf


    Full NATO memembership for Ukraine is only likely if there is a dictation of terms to Russia rather than a true peace deal, as it would represent total capitulation and humiliation for Putin.

    But

    A genuine peace deal would have to involve a western-backed guarantee of Ukraine's future security that would give Ukraine most of the benefits of actual NATO membership.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,876 ✭✭✭Rawr


    How about Russia withdraw troops from their illegal occupation of another sovereign state, and then Ukraine can join whatever they damn well please since they are a sovereign state.

    Russia need to negotiate their re-entry into the civilized world, and with that there may be room to compromise.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 12,033 ✭✭✭✭Richard Hillman


    I wonder if the Russian ban for Irish politicians is foreseeing the next election. All FG & FF with a snipper of Labour. They probably see a chance to reset relations with Ireland with a Sinn Fein government.

    I personally don't think Sinn Fein will deviate much from EU policy. But it could be something we will be talking about a lot over the next 2.5 years, with accusations of Russian interference in the next general election.

    Maybe this is for the Irish political thread but it is Russia related.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,525 ✭✭✭Curious_Case


    I think full NATO membership ticks all the boxes in a clear unambiguous way that no other instrument can.

    No reams of small print, just 4 words - "Don't F With Us"



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,412 ✭✭✭Homelander


    No, it's not, and that's an absurdly beyond tenuous attempt to deflect the thread.



  • Registered Users Posts: 16,672 ✭✭✭✭astrofool


    SF were relatively pro-russia (voting against sanctions), but they've since wiped their press releases and changed to be vehemently pro-Ukraine. Unless they want a public lynching along the lines of mussolini to happen with their leadership, they'll likely remain that way (pro-Ukraine) if in power.

    I do wonder how much thought russia is putting into the "ban" lists, given that being on them will be a badge of honour for most folks. If it's an attempt to divide, it doesn't work that well (unless Daly/Wallace are going to be the next Irish leaders :)



  • Registered Users Posts: 30,137 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    Exactly - the security guarantees in the Budapest agreement didn't amount to much did they?

    It either has to be NATO membership or a bilateral treaty with US ratified by Congress.

    Anything else means there is no guarantee peace will mean the end to bloodshed, it will just be a truce while Russia regroups.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,657 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    People are overlooking that any sort of a 'stalemate' solution with lots of compromises to the regime leaves Russia in a position to regroup and go on the attack again. They invaded Ukraine in February without warning or provocation and in breach of all international laws. With the same dictator and criminal regime in power, they would still pose a huge threat to their neighbours.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,656 ✭✭✭rogue-entity




  • Registered Users Posts: 8,520 ✭✭✭jmreire


    Manpower without weapons? I'm not sure that you know much about either manpower or weapons...Thousands of dead and wounded Russians would disagree with you there, now on the other hand, where you have thousands of Russian conscripts with non or poorly functioning weapons or even basic protective gear. And in lots of cases, they do not even have commanders, or if they do, when the fighting starts, they depart and leave the men to fend for their selves. You are mistaking quantity for quality. Quality wins every time, and so far, Ukraine is winning had over fist.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,519 ✭✭✭✭Say my name


    The first train since the start of the dictator Putin's fallacy of genocide in Ukraine arrives into Kherson from Kyiv.

    Note the empty flat bed carriage on the front, just in case.

    There's nothing sensitive in the clip above bar the people's faces at the train station.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 12,033 ✭✭✭✭Richard Hillman


    Yes, like I said, I don't think Sinn Fein will deviate from EU Policy. I think Russia probably have an outdated view on them (Pre February 2022). Jerry, The Ra, Feck the Brits etc.



This discussion has been closed.
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