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Electricity cable to garden office

  • 18-11-2022 12:40am
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37


    Hi,

    I recently had a garden office built in my back garden by a company from the North. They are not fully finished yet but something I noticed which I am not sure about is how they have ran the electricity cable to the office.

    They have connected a cable to my outside meter box and attached it to my fencing and ran it down along the fencing to the office.

    I think the cable should really be buried but my main concern is the connection to the meter box. I don’t think they are allowed to do that. Would I be correct with that? If I am, what should I do? Tell the builders to undo the wiring and get it connected to the fuse board?

    Post edited by Spear on


«1

Comments

  • Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Help & Feedback Category Moderators Posts: 25,758 CMod ✭✭✭✭Spear


    Moved to a forum that's related to the topic instead.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37 dezo19


    Thanks. Which forum is that?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,071 ✭✭✭10-10-20


    Sounds like it's a botch-job, but photos please of this meter box!

    Also show the wiring to the shed and how the power is distributed within the shed (through a sub-board, I hope)?

    You can send the photos to my PM if you can't attach them yourself.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,957 ✭✭✭kirk.


    Doesn't sound good

    This connecting into the meter box seems to be a thing now since car charging there started ,disaster situation



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37 dezo19


    Thanks @10-10-20 I’ll try get some photos for you tomorrow. They have a small fuse board in the shed part of the garden room.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37 dezo19


    @kirk. yeah I wasn’t sure about it initially but I sort of thought this is their job, they’re meant to be the experts and you got to trust them. Seems I like I could’ve been wrong to do that.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,957 ✭✭✭kirk.


    The obvious issue is it's cost prohibitive to get RECs involved so garden sheds seem mostly to be done DIY



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37 dezo19


    @kirk. this company seemed reputable as they work all across the uk and Ireland so I thought everything would be above board. I’m going to have to request their REC status now at the very least.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,957 ✭✭✭kirk.


    Post up a few pictures it'll give a better idea of the issues



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,067 ✭✭✭Murph85


    The effort to bury that cable, dig up everything and put it to the legal depth is significant. I'm assuming it's a steel wired armoured cable ? Put it in Conduit perhaps. But this is the job I see being done everywhere....



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,067 ✭✭✭Murph85




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,957 ✭✭✭kirk.


    Because the boxes are designed for ESBN equipment only

    It's also confusing as wiring should be distributed from a main board in the house, main isolation moves out to the meter cabinet



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,067 ✭✭✭Murph85


    Right. I see why they love going right into the box... saves a lot of time and messing around inside...



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,957 ✭✭✭kirk.


    That's the problem

    Car charging was definitely going to the the meter box because it's convenient and a million people want it

    It's what happens after that that's the problem



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,122 ✭✭✭almostover


    I got an insulated garden shed built recently and ran an armoured cable out to it buried underground. I must still get it connected to the fuse board in the house. The attachment to the fence is OK, provided armoured cable is used and/or the cable is housed in conduit. Might just look a little unsightly but not unsafe. Wiring up to the meter box doesn't sound like a good idea. I'm getting my cable ran into the house to the consumer unit and a proper circuit breaker installed so that the shed is on it's own circuit, plus MCBs in the shed for the sockets and lights. Have a chat with the company and try to get the job done the way you want it. Underground cable may be out of the question, they may insist you dig that yourself. But connection to the consumer unit in the house is a must. Have you paid up fully for the garden room?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37 dezo19


    @almostover i have the last payment to make. They are due to come out to put in the radiator and to finish off the steps, possibly a path too.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,122 ✭✭✭almostover


    Have a chat with them so and see what the options are. Most shed builders aren't electricians. It might be worth negotiating on the wiring and getting a local electrician to do a proper job of wiring up.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37 dezo19


    @almostover thanks. I’ll put up some pictures and see what yous think. I’ll have a chat with them too. I’m surprised these lads don’t seem above board because they work across the uk, Ireland and Channel Islands and do attics, conservatories etc. so you would think they would be ok.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,957 ✭✭✭kirk.


    It's all about the money

    Fire up some pictures it'll give an idea of the problems



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,067 ✭✭✭Murph85


    They are above board. I'd hardly call them a rogue operation. They will say what they are doing is perfectly safe and far more time effective. This is where the issue arises. Are you going to pay far more to bring electric out to the room?

    If you are installing these left right and centre. This is the solution these companies will go with, unless the client stipulates otherwise beforehand. But most of the time, this isnt even on the radar of the client, when discussing the grander details of a garden room ...



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37 dezo19


    Thanks @Murph85 . I admit it wasn’t at the top of my list. My wife and I did mention to ourselves that it was strange they were running the electricity when other builders we had come in for quotes mentioned about coming from the fuse board in the utility room.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,067 ✭✭✭Murph85


    Right. See it's a case of man hours and cost. Were this company more competitive on cost ? How far is the mains board from the garden room ?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,067 ✭✭✭Murph85


    Did they day they would bury the cable or surface mount it ? After the had gone into the mains board ?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,122 ✭✭✭almostover


    I would agree, none of what they're doing is unsafe or against regulations, to my relatively uneducated knowledge. It's just that they're doing the simplest, quickest job possible to get power to the garden room. It's up to the OP or not if they are OK with that, probably aomethign that should have been ironed out up front. But they are where they are now with it. The options are:

    1. Continue as is and live with it.

    2. Stop the electrical install, get a professional electrician's opinion on the best course of action. And then negotiate with the garden room company on the path forward. That will likely incur additional costs. Either the garden room company will charge the OPs to do the electrical install the way they want or they will tell them to arrange their own elec install and the OP will have to pay an electrician to do it.

    Either way OP, check your quote/contract with the garden room company for the elec install details before proceeding. If it's vague and just states that they'll connect up power, then you're a bit at their mercy as to how ots done if you didnt discuss it in advance. Your only bargaining chip is the final payment.

    I'll take photos of my setup shortly, it's a work in progress so things could go haywire yet! But it'll give you an idea of the intent anyway.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37 dezo19


    This is the connection to the meter box, cable along the fence, into the garden room and their mini fuse box.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37 dezo19


    My alarm friend said the esb would shut my electricity off for this .



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,957 ✭✭✭kirk.


    Swa not protected above ground

    No gland on board in cabinet


    That's the problem anyhow is the branching off the main protective device the MCB

    Post edited by kirk. on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,122 ✭✭✭almostover


    Ya I take it back, that's a fairly poor effort. And judging by the comments of others, non-compliant. The lack of sealing to the main fuse board and garden room is a bad sign. My setup is attached. 10sq SWA ran under the lawn. Dug a 3ft trench, put a 4in sand base on it, in with the SWA, more sand on top, warning tape, backfill with topsoil. Put an ESB hockey stick conduit in the concrete base formwork and fed the SWA through it. It comes into the corner of the shed ready for wiring to a small fuse board. The other end is incomplete. I have 2 options. Run steel conduit along the block wall and feed the SWA through it. Then cut footpath and feed SWA under footpath and into utility room where the consumer unit it. Or dig out the stone along the verge of the block wall and bury the SWA in the same way as the garden, and under footpath then into the utility room. Electrican I use was out pre shed build and insisted that we wire to the consumer unit. Was the safest and best job according to him.

    And yes, my garden is destroyed. Shed was fitted 2 weeks ago after 6 weeks of incessant rain. It's a poorly drained lawn anyway and the 15m2 area of concrete in it now hasn't helped. You'll see I've a post on boards for advice on a drainage project for next spring! 😉

    Get onto the garden room company and tell them the elec install isn't acceptable. You have leverage as they need your final payment for the job. See how that goes and take it from there. They might be well reviewed but remember the vast majority of homeowners aren't like yourself, most haven't an iota about safe electrical installation. And neither do I, hence consulting with an electrican.




  • Posts: 15,661 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Where is the fuse board located? At a guess I'd imagine up and on the other side of the wall the MCB is on there no?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,957 ✭✭✭kirk.


    Turn off the MCB in the cabinet anyhow see if it cuts power to shed

    No way of telling from the pics

    It's a diy job anyhow that's obvious



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,957 ✭✭✭kirk.


    No need for the RCBO on the swa either that's only adding to the issues

    These sheds is something that will probably be clamped down on soon



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 230 ✭✭JL spark


    What a **** show that install is



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,071 ✭✭✭10-10-20


    How dare ya - my DIY standards are higher than that! 😂

    That looks like it might have been installed "hot" without isolation of the incoming ESB supply too. Otherwise there should have been a connector block on the live.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,957 ✭✭✭kirk.


    It's probably coming off the breaker(main protective device) in fairness

    Total DIY effort anyhow



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,828 ✭✭✭meercat


    This work should be reported to safe electric/cru


    absolutely disgraceful and non compliant

    so many rule breaches

    id be confident that it wasn’t a rec that did this.


    it’s a criminal offence for a non rec to undertake such works


    when the work is completed you should request a Cert 3 and a copy of the test certificate from the rec.they are required to provide this to you

    Post edited by meercat on


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37 dezo19


    @meercat interestingly enough I got in touch with safe electric to see if the company was on their register and they said they couldn’t find them in their database but to ask for their registration card.

    if they’re not registered, what should I do? Get them to undo what they have done and get in a rec?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,828 ✭✭✭meercat



    this is too serious not to report

    chances are this company is doing this elsewhere also


    theres a lot of work required to put the installation back the way it was(including certification of your existing house)


    they have made a complete mess of it.


    it could be a costly remedial job


    i wouldn’t let them back near this until cru or safe electric inspect


    certainly don’t pay the balance



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 230 ✭✭JL spark


    What meercat said , do not pay balance , report this ,



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37 dezo19


    @Murph85 these guys were more competitive on price but then they also seemed to be doing alot across the uk and Ireland so thought the price might’ve be an economies of scale benefit. Seems like they just cut corners instead.

    I think they originally said they were going to run it under the stones that were alongside the fence.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37 dezo19


    @meercat @JL spark the balance is €1500 of a €22k job. They may not be too worried about it but they may be worried about a report going in. They’re due to come out to finish off different parts of the job. I was going to find out then if they were actually a rec or not and sort of take it from there but I don’t know now. Honestly this has stunned me a bit as I did not think it was something I needed to worry about. Put my trust into them to do what was right.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37 dezo19


    @meercat I didn’t even think that the house would need recertification 😳 how much is that going to cost?

    Post edited by dezo19 on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,828 ✭✭✭meercat


    Your main tails have been cut and altered.you have no gland in your ocpd. This will have to be rectified and the house tested and certified.

    this is just to put back what you originally had


    then your new office will have to be wired back to your distribution board in the house.

    this will have to be done correctly and a separate certificate issued for this work



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,957 ✭✭✭kirk.


    The office too whatevers wrong there

    That's a UK thing those Henley blocks on the supply neutral

    Shambles at the cabinet I said car charging but really the main overcurrent protective device once that came in it made branching off at the cabinet easier



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37 dezo19


    @meercat does the recertification of the house have to get done by the esb or can it be done by a rec?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,828 ✭✭✭meercat


    It has to be done by a rec. they’ll issue a cert1 to esbn who’ll come out and connect the new tails into the meter. Esbn also have a charge (€180approx)for their work



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,034 ✭✭✭zg3409


    There was a similar case here of garden office and the shed end of the wiring was not compliant according to an electrician.

    I suggest you get a quote asap to get everything checked and put right. Then put that quote to the company. Check the fine print of their agreement, often electrics are excluded. You should also check fire safety such as smoke alarm l, CO2 detector etc. Often these sheds don't comply with many regulations.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37 dezo19


    @zg3409 thanks. I’ll ask my alarm friend who is a rec. they didn’t put any alarms into it either. they never came up in conversation and I didn’t even think of them.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 230 ✭✭JL spark


    More than likely the cables in that installation are for Uk ,

    non insulated cpc and not a lsf type cable , been northern based company



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,712 ✭✭✭Lenar3556


    It’s a poor installation attempt and it doesn’t meet current wiring regulations. I don’t think you need be concerned that anyone is going to disconnect your electricity supply however and there isn’t really any evidence to suggest that there is any immediate hazard, be it shock or fire risk.

    The mains issues I would see are;

    1. The supply to the new construction should be fed from the consumer unit, not the metering cabinet.
    2. Even having regard to the above, the means in which the connection to the metering cabinet has been made is poor. There would appear to be undersized tails feeding the new protective device and there is a shortage of mechanical cable restraint generally. The cable entry point is far from ideal also.
    3. There is a doubt from what you say that the individuals who carried out this work were familiar with Irish wiring regulations and/or were registered electrical contractors authorised by the CRU to undertake restricted electrical works (which these are)
    4. The solution I would be seeking is to have them appoint a suitably qualified electrical contractor, registered with safe electric to remedy the situation and have the connection rerouted to the consumer unit. There is quite possibly an issue with the cable type also, as the branded materials look to have come from Northern Ireland and we use a different type of cabling as per current standards here.
    5. The Henley block connections in the metering cabinet will no longer be required when all is corrected. Given this fact and particularly if they were fitted by a contractor who was not authorised to do, it would be best that they are removed and re-terminated using DIN terminals. I don’t necessarily see the need for recertification of the whole installation? There is an issue with the lack of an isolator between the smart meter and the point of interface. The appointed REC will likely need to raise this with the local ESBN office when he is reconnecting to the point of interface. But I think they will assist in this regard without need for a wiring certificate. If there was an ESBN isolator the issue wouldn’t arise.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,957 ✭✭✭kirk.


    Second time sheds have come up recently

    Dunno why they bother with dodgy wiring probably just profit and they're getting away with it



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