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Qatar World Cup

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  • Registered Users Posts: 33,365 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock



    No, it's human. Even in the muslim world. The problem is political forces have cherry-picked parts of religious texts to deny this - just as they used to do in the west.

    Qatar wants to establish itself on the world stage in sporting events - Doha has staged the Asian games and had a bid for the 2016 olympics rejected (edit - also 2020 and 2024) and it's hosted FIFA world club championships very recently. Also the World Handball Cup in 2015.

    As I said earlier, it's up to FIFA (and every other world sporting body for that matter) to values it holds and what it wants espoused and whether or not equality and inclusion are amongst them. If not, fair enough. It seems a bit hypocritical to go all-out in "Kick[ing] racism out of football" but being tolerant of other forms of prejudice.

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,826 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    No, what Qatar is doing is not going to be a problem in the middle East, they are at the moderate end of the Islamic spectrum.

    Qatar doesn't explicitly have the death penalty for homosexuality, it is on the books for adultery, which marks it as one of the more tolerant Islamic countries.


    Qatar is one of the most tolerant countries in the middle East, sadly so.


    They should never have been given the world cup but this is the reality of the world we now live in, what we consider universal human rights are actually just Western constructs, in much of the world they are viewed as deeply wrong, Qatar being on the milder spectrum of that.



  • Registered Users Posts: 25,333 ✭✭✭✭Strumms


    toyed with the idea of not watching it but I’m done toying with that idea…. I have absolutely zero interest now, no motivation whatsoever to watch that bent sham of a competition.

    FIFA has let the sporting world down..

    Platini, Blatter and now Infantini…there really is a determination within such a major, important and influential organisation that the absolute dregs of humanity end up running it… and making, encouraging and enabling decisions that fûck over the fans, the lifeblood of the sport…

    It’s nothing to do with inclusivity…



  • Registered Users Posts: 33,365 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    Exactly my point: laws that are base on literal interpretations of the Qaran, aka - political forces cherry-picking religious texts.

    Inceidently, the laws are more at the extereme end, but are very rarely (if ever) carried out. They've had only one death peanlty execution in the last two years (and that was for murder).

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



  • Registered Users Posts: 310 ✭✭Hillmanhunter1


    Perhaps you should just focus on the European Cup?

    The World Cup may not be for you.



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    What a cesspit.

    Good luck to the poor souls that paid and travelled for this shambles.


    World Cup 2022: Inside Qatar's £175-a-night fan village




  • Registered Users Posts: 8,116 ✭✭✭threeball


    Fcuk me. Sounds like Woodstock 99 only worse. Can't buy water in 50 degree heat. This could all kick off yet.

    Although I don't feel sorry for anyone who paid to attend this shìtshow as it was obvious what it was for years.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    The lack of sleep will cause more trouble than any alcohol would.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,510 ✭✭✭YabaDabaDooley


    Must have been so hard for Infintino being bullied for having red hair growing up. What a disgusting speech that was yesterday. I didn't listen to it and wouldn't ever listen to the likes of him but read it in various news outlets. I won't be tuning into much of this farce if any. The sooner it's over the better.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,496 ✭✭✭Luxembourgo


    Diversity is strength, and the WC hasn't been in an Arab country yet. Very little problems that weren't there when it was awarded.

    And as for the bribery, if we excluded all bidders who offered a incentives for votes, we couldn't have anywhere to host a World Cup.

    I don't agree with their stance on LGBT, but it is their religion, and we must show tolerance. We let many into the country every year who share those beliefs, and have opened Croke Park to some as well. Players such an Gueye are also deeply religious and share these views.

    Tolerance isn't one way



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,194 ✭✭✭Jarhead_Tendler


    Good man. You managed to find a Trump angle for the Bahrain wc. You are unique



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,381 ✭✭✭Yurt2


    Bahrain aren't hosting the World Cup.

    And you could probably stand to do a bit of reading on how Saudi were desperate to get the Trump administration to turn on Qatar before you read any further.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,436 ✭✭✭dartboardio


    That's not the same whatsoever I assume you're not muslim, since most/all muslims follow Islamic/Sharia Law regardless of the country they're situated in. :S



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,033 ✭✭✭✭Richard Hillman


    The issues that the media are screaming about are minority views, confined pretty much to Western Europe and North America.

    Qatars view on gay people is shared amongst pretty much all of Africa and most of Asia. Then Central-Eastern Europe, South America would have less extreme views but would not be very tolerant of it.

    FIFA have an obligation to the world to represent all of their nations.

    I don't think Qatar should be hosting a world cup because it is such a small country, it's not a good fan experience, it was bought via corruption, the stadiums will be dead, empty seats, fairly miserable.

    However should the world cup be played in a Muslim country? Ask your Gary Lineker's and Gary Neville's that question. They'll probably say yes. Then ask them what country would be suitable, that doesn't have similar issues as Qatar? They won't be able to name any, because there are none.

    So who are this small minority in Western Europe and North America to say we should only have a world cup where the country has their specific values.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,177 ✭✭✭Fandymo


    Bring on the football!!! Only a few hours now until we have kick off. Can’t wait!!!



  • Registered Users Posts: 310 ✭✭Hillmanhunter1


    I'm not a Muslim - I'm Catholic.

    And "most/all muslims follow Islamic/Sharia Law" to about the same extent that most Catholics attend Sunday Mass, eat fish on a Friday, and don't have sex outside marriage🤣



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,324 ✭✭✭PokeHerKing


    Man I hope they riot in that fan village. Can't imagine the mind set of anyone who's actually gone over to this but they're there and they've paid big money so deserve better.

    I think only a truly chaotic scenes will reel FIFAs neck in.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,475 ✭✭✭valoren


    Colombia, in 1982, had to pull out of hosting the 86 World Cup. Back then it was about them unable to pay for it. Mexico took up the reins in 1983 as they had previously hosted it in 1970 with infrastucture already in situ (albeit with improvements needed). The very second the feasibility reports suggested it was unfeasible to host it in the summer then it should have been a line in the sand. Pardon the pun. Other candidate countries or former hosts would have been capable of hosting or even co-hosting this shambles. A compromise could have been reached where Qatar hosted some groups and a knockout game (or even the final itself) in the summer in an air conditioned solitary stadium with other groups divided up between the remaining candidates (US, South Korea, Australia, Japan). I doubt anyone would have thought that unreasonable and this whole spreading the game bullshit from Fifa would get satisfied.

    It seems that the best model for Fifa will be to do what UEFA are doing with the Euros in spreading and sharing the hosting of a World Cup around the World. Think of Ireland getting to host a group down the line. Less chance of a shambles and deaths from scrambling to host the whole thing. With this model the only real bidding between countries would be fighting for the right to host the Final itself. Fifa, endemically corrupt, could still indulge their nod-wink-trouser shenanigans as well.



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,826 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    There is an argument for that, it's only Europe or societies with European values that have a problem with Qatar hosting it, especially on issues around LGBT, women and worker's rights.


    I have a problem with it, but I also accept that the hosting of the world cup is always paid for, they just wrote bigger cheque than normal.


    We are going to have to get used to it as European influence wanes, their own cultures and religions will become more asserted.


    When Mohamed created Islam he made rulings, verses and sayings to suit the political needs he faced at any one time. As he became militarily stronger he was able to increase the violence and killing against those he didn't approve of.



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,826 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    To a degree that is so but in nearly every Islamic country East of India if you come out as gay at home the authorities won't carry out the sentence of death or jailing as your family or community will already have.


    If you declared yourself an atheist, you wouldn't last long either.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 18,721 ✭✭✭✭gormdubhgorm


    It is basically the West trying to force their culture on another culture. It is the new equivalent of ‘the crusades’ The difference is it is mostly done virtually. Along with empty symbolism or gestures.

    Any one that knows basic Irish history knows what happens when one country forces it’s culture/values, on another land.

    I did not see anyone pick up on Infantino’s point that change is a process. The West went through theirs.

    What hit me with that comment was how real organic cultural change is achieved by those within a country. The majority of a populace will eventually decide what they want themselves. And how they wish to be governed.

    Western countries and media screaming about how other countries should be ‘like them’. Is just a new modern form of colonialism IMO.

    Guff about stuff, and stuff about guff.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 7,212 Mod ✭✭✭✭cdeb


    I think this is part tired cliché, part kernel of truth.

    "Diversity is strength" - yeah, whatever. Meaningless cliché to start off with.

    But I don't mind the World Cup being in an Arab country per se, or in a country with relatively little football history. And yes, bribery isn't unique to the Qatar bid.

    It shouldn't be in a country that patently can't hold it of course - in terms of logistics, security issues arising from all venues being so close together, the change to the football calendar (and for better or worse, 55% of the players involved play in the big 5 European leagues, and a larger number again play in winter season leagues, so it does impact the majority), unsuitable weather conditions in the usual summer slot, etc.

    And I do agree with the English politician who said that if you are going to a country, you should respect its culture - he was pilloried for that view of course. Half-empty grounds and worse would be the best message to send to FIFA and to Qatar (for all that they give a **** of course)

    But "we must show tolerance" of people who move here with those beliefs? I don't agree with that. You don't drop homophobic/misogynistic views, or Sharia, or integrate into a new culture, just because you move there. This cultural face-off - and the daft suggestion that we should be tolerant of it; the hypocrisy that we should preach tolerance of homosexuality and tolerance of homophobic cultures both at the same time - can only lead to a growing conflict within Europe in the decades to come as this cultural subset grows. And for what?

    "We let many into the country every year who share those beliefs" - we do indeed, and the real takeaway from all this should be to strongly question that practice. Plus how we support these cultures through energy deals and usage (the former of which isn't really in individuals' control, but the latter is).



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,218 ✭✭✭✭Fr Tod Umptious


    I'd imagine the poster would be equally as excited about this game were it being played in the US in June 2022 (had the US won the hosting bid back on Dec 2nd 2010)

    People need to get off the high horse about Qatar and it's human rights etc.

    Because in reality most people don't care about the rights of foreign workers in our own country, let alone the rights of Asian migrant workers in far off Qatar.

    Qatar was a bad selection for plenty of other reasons other than it's human rights record.



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,826 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    There is a hypocrisy about that across all of Europe, a tiny example,have a family on the late late show who were making speeches in Mosques in Egypt during the unrest there while that side had gay people being thrown off roofs near by. The Fatwa council that Imam Daddy is on headed by a man who has called for the killing of gays and he is probably the most influential mainstream Sunni scholar alive.


    On and on and on.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,177 ✭✭✭Fandymo


    Regular

    Regular contributor to the F365 mailbag, regular poster on Foot.ie and also a regular poster in the Celtic and ROI threads on boards, as well as a manager in the LSL.

    Serious bee in your bonnet 🤣🤣🤣🤣



  • Subscribers Posts: 41,543 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    This is going to be the most sterile, flat, cold, boring world cup ever as a fan. Atmosphere is literally not allowed on the streets over there. Fans are corralled by heavy handed police



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,219 ✭✭✭archfi


    Just glad the football will arrive today.

    The only part I won't be watching/listening to is the pre and post match bullshit*.

    I don't wanna hear hypocrites waffling on and on and on while creaming the big bucks from within and without Qatar.

    *I'd advise that approach for watching any televised football these days.

    The issue is never the issue; the issue is always the revolution.

    The Entryism process: 1) Demand access; 2) Demand accommodation; 3) Demand a seat at the table; 4) Demand to run the table; 5) Demand to run the institution; 6) Run the institution to produce more activists and policy until they run it into the ground.



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,218 ✭✭✭✭Fr Tod Umptious


    Exactly a reason why it was such a bad choice back in 2010



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,177 ✭✭✭Fandymo


    Maybe, but there’ll be no vuvuzelas, so every cloud.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,719 ✭✭✭creedp


    On the last point, while you are correct that he shouldn't claim to speak for others, you'd be nieve if you believed many others don't share that view.



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