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"Green" policies are destroying this country

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  • Registered Users Posts: 13,826 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    Conifers close to rivers acidify the river, that's not debated.


    There is as much vitamin c, ascorbic acid, in a cup of pine needles as an orange.


    You can end up with a foot of pine needles in a plantation quick enough. they are better managed now but it isn't widely acknowledged how destructive Coillte has been to water quality and bogs. They have single plantations near me which have destroyed more bog/turf that would meet Irish turf demand for decades.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Got a good chuckle out of this




  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    You posted the answer to your question this morning. Any further questions can be directed to yourself



  • Registered Users Posts: 6 trumpeytrump


    Texas's grid fell over because there was no output from the wind turbines and it shifted all the load onto conventional resources which did not have the capacity bringing the grid down.

    This was the problem, over reliance on wind, an unreliable power source



  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 91,621 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    Penny pinching rather than incompetence. No link to the other grids. No redundancy so there was a cascade of failure.

    Airlines use checklist. They are written in blood.

    Nuclear industry hubris explains a lot of repeat problems. You can argue whether a black swan event should have been considered, but when it's something that's happened elsewhere previously there is no excuse.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 15,126 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    South Korea`s bid to build Poland`s first nuclear power plants was for 6 APR1400 reactors with a 60 year design life providing 8.4 GW for $26.7 Bn.

    The E.S.B. plan is for 6.3 GW for domestic supply. 4 APR1400 reactors would provide 6.4 GW for $17.7 Bn.

    That is less than one quarter of the price for just the offshore construction cost of the E.S.B. plan, but yeh the E.S.B. plan somehow makes financial sense.

    Makes sense I suppose if you are using the same book keeping system that allows Renewable Energy Guarantee of Origin Certificates to be used multiple times and wood pellets to be classified as carbon neutral.

    Still we should take heart that the U.N. has stayed true to form with the begging bowl solution that we should scourge ourselves and throw money at so they can get a warm fuzzy feeling distributing the proceeds to some of the most corrupt governments on the planet who have not done a damn thing nor have they any intention off, from the evidence of past U.N. largesse, using it to sort out the problem.

    But that will not be a problem. A bit of creative accountancy and everyone involved will take their cut and slap each other on the back on a job well done.



  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 91,621 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    Since Hornsea is hitting 47% and Hywind is over 57% capacity factor and that's not counting periods of low wind in summer when you'd have solar stepping in too so I very much doubt nuclear would beat future renewables by a factor of 2. And you can install excess renewables.

    I dare you tell us that Korean Power aren't corrupt and haven't had scandals with bribery and fake certs and parts and that didn't cause multiple plants to go offline at the same time during peak annual demand.


    France, Finland, Germany, Italy, Japan and Ukraine have all been without at least 50% of nuclear power for extended times. And for completely different reasons. (The UK will be on that list within 18 months unless you include plants not ordered in which case they are already on it)



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,126 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    Then you will find this one hilarious.

    Drax U.K. wood pellet burning plant that has 3 times the annual CO2 emission of Ireland



  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 91,621 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    Thermal plant dropped off the grid before wind. Wind and solar were only rated at 2GW for reliability. You can see how little wind changed during the first 20GW of power loss.

    The blue dashed horizontal line bottom line shows the 2 GW that ERCOT projected for wind and solar power in its "extreme" scenario. There were a couple of small dips below this level, but a drop in wind power was not the main culprit here. Wind and solar are generally predictable days ahead so there should have been dispatchable plant ready.

    The black line shows the actual electricity load. The thin gray line shows the forecasted demand, if ERCOT had been able to deliver it. The difference between the black and grey lines shows how much power was missing. Mostly due to cascade failure of nuclear and gas. Since there's 2GW of waste heat per reactor to get rid of there's no excuse for stuff freezing.



  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 91,621 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    But it is renewable, as long as you don't take more than 1mm a year and re-wet it and put back the living layers.



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I am quite amused by your obsession with that place, thats true



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,126 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    Much the same as myself seeing how well the hilarious Ryan plan you had such faith in on communities of less than 500 being allowed to sell or gift turf and those larger than 500 not being allowed to do so has worked out. Turf freely available to anybody that wants to avail, the wiping out of carbon tax on turf and you being unable to let it go and move on.



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,126 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    It`s very much the Magpie Syndrome this attraction to shiny headlines rather than reading what they actually say..

    Even a quick glance would have shown that the puff piece posted was by Equinor who recently pulled out of their partnership with the E.S.B. to build offshore.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6 trumpeytrump


    You're completely ignoring levelized cost per unit. it's very simple capital cost plus production cost equals unit cost. The countries with the cheapest C02 free power use nuclear



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Funny, last I checked the legislation was implemented to ban commercial sales of turf

    Yup, implemented 😊

    The national rewetting and bog restoration programme is tipping along nicely too and is soon to be expanded



  • Registered Users Posts: 6 trumpeytrump


    Exactly there's no wind output, it was supposed to carry 25%+ and it's inability to perform brought down everything else. The grid operator has been caught blaming the gas plant when it was then keeping the grid up



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    And if Pakistan can afford th build a nuclear arsenal as well as export terrorism, it can afford to pay for its own climate issues.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Careful next time you eat an orange. It might burn out your mouth and entire alimentary system. You'd be much safer if you downed a nice glass of sulphuric acid.



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,126 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    Lol. The "ban" is to prevent the advertising or commercial sale of turf. It hasn`t stopped a single person getting all the turf they wish.

    All it achieved for Ryan, and all those that thought his 500 communities v 501 communities was credible, was them making a laughing stock of themselves and carbon tax revenue from turf wiped out. 🤣😂

    It`s up there with attempting to cut Irish cattle numbers by 1.5 million while Brazil alone will increase theirs by 24 million.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    The "ban" is to prevent the advertising or commercial sale of turf.

    Yeah I know, its great



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  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 91,621 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight



    The grid lost 30GW. They were only supposed to depend on 2GW of wind. That's 28GW of not-related to wind outages for you to explain.

    The red line on 15th Feb shows thermal plant outages. They happened BEFORE wind dropped later in the evening.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,556 ✭✭✭Micky 32


    I went for a nice long drive today. I came across numerous vehicles towing trailers full of turf. Great to see people rurally still getting their heating fuel.

    i think when you have people sneering at others over turf bans with glee when people rely on turf you really can see what kind of person you are dealing with on here.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,237 ✭✭✭Markus Antonius


    If only you saw the bog next to my village - hundreds of acres of woodland felled, countless acres of bogland decimated, an entire face of a mountain blown to pieces to provide the foundation stone. All by a multinational windmill company and all in the name of the very "Green" agenda you shill for. 👍️



  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 91,621 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    Guaranteeing £92.50/MWh for 35 years is a LOT more expensive than guaranteeing £37.35/MWh for 15 years.


    Levelised cost per unit won't apply to Hinkley-C until 2062 at the earliest. It's a distraction. It also ignores the cost of nuclear power plants, the cost of decommissioning, cost of backup, cost of peaking plant etc.

    The LCOE for solar is close to zero, there's 40 year old panels still producing 80% of their initial power and no reason to believe they continue for years yet. LCOE of wind is also very low and you don't have to take down an entire windfarm to refurb a turbine.


    There's too much of an overlap between coal and nuclear usage to give nuclear a green cert.



  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 91,621 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    Oddly enough batteries are about the only thing that could keep the grid going in the event of a reactor SCRAM.

    To put a 1.6GW reactor on our grid you need to be able to load balance 1.2GW within FIVE seconds.

    You could do this with open circuit gas. But it would require 3GW of open cycle gas turbines running at 1.8GW to give you the option of ramping up another 1.2GW. So you don't even get the efficiency of CCGT. It would be an emissions nightmare. And with all that fossil fuel power there'd be no baseload for nuclear.

    Or you could install another 1GW to the existing battery storage on the grid. It would only be needed to support nuclear so would be a hidden subsidy. 1GW of batteries would allow a lot more renewables on the grid, sooner and cheaper than nuclear.


    Either way you now have 10 more seconds to provide another 400MW so lots more batteries, because Turlough Hill wouldn't be fast enough unless it was already in pump mode or acting like a motor spinning in air.


    Nuclear fans just don't get how a modern grid works. You can't rely on excess boilers with hours worth of steam being available 24/7 in amounts that could cover for current reactor sizes.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,273 ✭✭✭xxxxxxl


    Hey not going to disagree Think of my knowledge of inner workings of Fission reactors akin to homer. But are we talking about brown outs or actual Overloads being the problem. My understanding is frequency drops lead to dimming/Brown outs. Higher frequency can lead to fuse tripping and say power supply tripping ? I kind of think of the modern grid like plates spinning on poles. It's a balancing act. There is no real button you can push once it's past a point.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I make no apologies for being happy to see that it's made more difficult for culchies to burn dirt

    I make no apologies for being happy to see commercial operations grind to a halt.

    I make no apologies for being happy to see bogs being rewetted/restored.

    Same for less pollution from less turf being burned, less prevalence of asthma among children as a result, increased biodiversity and so on and so on

    No apologies whatsoever



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,126 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    Great for those buying and selling turf. No carbon tax to pay or collect.

    Other than that it hasn`t done a single think other than give people a good laugh at the ineptitude of the Green Party and those that supported Eamon`s plan to put borders around every community of 500 or less.



  • Registered Users Posts: 24,069 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    But folk are going to keep harvesting turf no matter what the law is.

    There isn't the will or the resources to enforce it and sale will just become a black market.

    Like anything else in the 'green' agenda, it will only work if it also benefits consumers financially.

    And by that, I don't mean adding taxes until the alternative is prohibitive. I mean actually convincing people are bringing them with you.

    Really nothing that the Green Party representatives within the current coalition have introduced has the widespread acceptance and backing of the Irish people. And the Irish people are a smart bunch. Smoke and mirrors will not cut it.

    Turf smoke of course.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 596 ✭✭✭deholleboom


    It is often interesting to note the hate for greens against fossil fuels. But they get their funding often indirectly from the fossil fuel industry. Now, anyone would think that does not make any sense until you realise they have a common enemy, nuclear power. Fossil fuel advocates just LOVE renewables. They know they are always going to need a large amount of fossil fuels as back up. They've done the sums. Nuclear will put a serious dent in their profits. So, next time you see a green activist give out about the oil industry remember that.



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