Republic of Ireland Team 2023/24 [old thread]

Which is brilliant for him, fair play, he looks a very good player... what's your point though? He was bought as an option. it was a good transfer, and it's looking like it will pay off. But the circumstances, and necessity of its success are simply not comparable to Bazunu.

Southampton lost their starting goalkeeper, Forster. To replace him, they decided upon Bazunu, instead of another senior experienced player. I'm arguing that in choosing a player who had never played higher than League 1, that part of their confidence in choosing this kid was that he had played at a higher level, to a good standard, for Ireland. And that that experience bolstered their confidence in taking the massive risk of making him their starting goalkeeper to replace Forster.

I don't see the point in arguing that him being one of the most impressive young international number 1's played absolutely zero part in his transfer... i doubt Southampton themselves would say it had so little impact. It was an obviously key piece of information to inform his level of quality, so of course it will have been relevant.

And again, anyway, we all know that lots of players are bought at least partially off the back of international performances. It's a really common thing... so it's not hard to stretch that young players getting to show their quality at a higher level than their club teams play at, would factor into their transfers. Sure of course it could.

Have been behind Kenny since he got the gig and said it would take time to turn the team around etc. But, after the last week I would have some doubts. Whatever about Norway match tonight we put out a fairly decent side and were so poor.

It was the equivalent of a top end championship side vs league two. Passing the ball for the sake of it.

All pure opinion/perspective of course but personally I thought Scotland at home, UKR away and Scotland away felt like we were finally settled and playing well and the trajectory was ascending.

And to highlight how fickle my opinion is, if Kenny had gotten similar results, with similar performances in this window but fielded teams with the young lads he actually brought into the squad id still probably be on here in some way defending him.

Not as confidentially as I have in the past but I'd have still thought there was some hope.

But when I look at it all objectively I think the curve is descending again.

Google Georgia results at home.

Don’t need to do that to know that the draw away that Mick managed was a complete failure. We were the higher seed, that absolutely prioritised not losing over going for it, even though a win would have meant a draw in one of our last 2 games was enough. Drawing that lower seed meant we had to beat one of either higher seeds which was never going to happen.

Kenny certainly has his problems but going back to other campaigns poor results and and claiming those poor results were actually good to slight Kenny with is some serious mental gymnastics.

But what specifically has he done that any other manager could not have done ?

Any other manager with experience above LOI and a disastrous Scottish stint.

They too would have capped new players, and they might have been able to mould them into a team that were better than what we have seen with Kenny.

Oh I forgot you are the poster who always pedals that line.

Nice being in with a shout for qualification in the last game rather be out after two though, isn't it?

You make a lot of good points. I have been following those lads on Irish Football Fan TV. Honestly, because I found it funny, after a while.

At the start they saw it as a new dawn, there would be a new style of football. Ireland would show the world we have the ability to play possession football properly, and get results. Basically an international version of Kenny’s Dundalk.

But then with each bad result they found excuses, desperately looked for positives. And ANY half decent result/performance was greeted with relief, and talked up as a turning point. Until of course the next poor performance.

Now the guy from Irish Football Fan TV looks like a broken man. He has finally lost faith. In Kenny he doesn’t trust.

I noticed this change has been replicated on boards. Most posters, pundits, fans have finally woken up to the repeated issues.

Stuff I and others, have been saying for ages. I have not done it to hammer him for the sake of it, or called for him to be sacked.

But the same problems are repeated. Possession and no threat, no penetrative passes, side to side - slow. So flipping slow.

Basically as you say, the same fear Kenny has. The team takes the safe option playing the ball in their own half.

This means easy to play against for any team. The urgency has been taken out of the team.

That is unforgivable in my eyes, one of the main advantages Irish teams had was workrate/energy, closing down.

Workrate and energy is a basic especially for a team like Ireland who are limited. Kenny has ripped the heart out of this Irish team.

It is like the slow mo during those drink driving ads. A slow car crash. Then a sloppy goal is conceded.

Even the best possession teams like Pep’s Barcelona had high workrate to close down and win the ball back quickly. Four second rule I believe they call it.

Set pieces another disaster an area that used to be one of Ireland’s key strengths. What has Kenny done? He has now made it a real weakness. Both attacking and defensively.

In open and general play as well sloppy goals are likely to be conceded because the team is not trained/drilled properly by the manager. Lack of organisation - structure- cohesiveness.

As for Ireland’s group you are probably correct. But I think the difficulty of the group might help save some of Kenny’s reputation.

Because he might/could get - MAYBE one shock draw on the counter v Holland or France. Which can then be talked up. That is if he gets really lucky.

But will he get anything against Greece? In all likelihood Ireland will labour against Gibraltar.

People say Ireland don’t have the players. OK, the standard is low - but can people honestly say they are performing at the levels they should be?

I think the truth is Kenny is a nice fella, with grand plans. But he doesn’t know how to make Ireland perform at their level, nevermind the dream of better than the sum of their parts.

He is just a very limited manager, with a very limited team. Put the two together and this is what happens. A team and manager with a serious Lack of confidence, and underachieving.

But other managers qualified for tournaments and at least got them within a good shot of qualifing.

With Kenny we have been out after the first international window, we have lost to teams we would never dream of losing to, and have struggled to beat the same teams

I wanted SK to succeed, I thought he could bring what he did with the U21s to the senior panel.

But it was clear early on that it wasn't working and that he was out of his depth.

And he needs to be gone, but he won't, he'll get the Euro campaign and they will struggle against Greece and Gibraltar in that, and they will struggle in the next Nations League and our ranking and coefficients will suffer, and we will drop down the seeding making it harder and harder to qualify in the future.

The knock on from this could last a decade.

Other managers weren’t asked to do what Kenny was asked to do. I really think it’s unfair to ask a manager to overhaul the squad and give experience to youth players and then in his first campaign say it’s not good enough, other managers wouldn’t have qualified either but they might have been out slightly later. Asking for a long term approach while also demanding results doesn’t make sense. He ended up finishing in third too which is basically par.

Unless we are to qualify this will be his last campaign and that will be fair enough. He’s had enough time with the players and if he’s reached his level then it’s best for all to move on. But I disagree that the effects of this could last a decade. If we get the right man in he will benefit from the players being given experience by Kenny and he won’t have to reinvent the wheel.

I would consider WC qualification unrealistic for us given the quality at our disposal so I’m fine with managers being given a WC to work with the players before a tilt at a more realistic qualification for the Euros.

Not what I said at all structure, quick ball pace urgency.

His stock has definitely fallen enough that the offer of a part time gig with Ireland to help get better offers from club teams could be tempting. Big issue is he'll likely jump ship early when that offer comes and could leave us looking for a new manager mid campaign.

Honestly, I think the Ireland job is more likely to do more harm than good for anyone looking to put themselves in the shop window for a club. I mean, even beyond the total lack of control of what squad you have for any given window, we’re also in a group pretty much devoid of hope.

We’re just not in a position any up and comer would go near, especially at cut price wages. There’s literally no upside to the job for anyone who’s currently doing well in management, or who has done well previously and set a benchmark for their income.

this is the biggest issue with the ‘sack Kenny’ thing - no one that gets named in here is actually ever going to take it.

Even if the Kenny thing doesn’t work, the Mick thing definitely doesn’t work. Whatever happens we won’t be returning to that, we’ll need to be moving on to try something new.

Chris Wilder isn't an up and coming young coach though and his base salary at Sheffield United, his best job so far was 675k with bonus incentives thrown in.

500k for a part time gig definitely fits the bill of tempting for someone like Wilder who might be waiting awhile for a club given more clubs are appointing young lads looking to break into management ala Michael Beale, Rob Edwards whose now at Luton, John Eustace, Russell Martin, and his replacement at Boro Michael Carrick.

I'd actually say our urgency and pace have increased defensively as we have adopted more consistent pressing tactics rather than the dropping deep that we'd used to do. I'd also say that relying on set pieces as our main threat is actually showing a lack of urgency and pace.

I'd also argue that Trap and O'Neill after Euro 2016 did actively set us up to hoof it long and aimless.

Some of the criticism over possession football I find slightly odd. If a team is set up deep you expect to have a lot of the ball. Hitting long or with pace ain't going to make a huge amount of difference as the gap between the attack and midfield will be too large and the attackers will be swamped. If the opposition is playing a high line yes it will be more effective and at times in the 1st half when Malta played higher at times we had what could have been chances but Ogbene and Doherty miscontroled the ball at least once each. But against teams sitting deep it's not going to be a problem to our current woes.

What the two main issues are our lack of creativity in midfield which is a issue that every manager we choose will have and the 3 at the back formation against teams sitting deep which is a stick to beat Kenny with atm. At times we need more width when the midfield gets crowded particularly as left wing back is a problem position for us and Doherty isn't a reliable player in an attacking sense. Could do with some wingers at times.

This is it... most likely we're looking at ex-players, or managers who have not managed at a higher level yet - so likely up to LOI, League 1, maybe SPL level depending on the person and their career trajectory. We're just not gonna be in the running for any household names.

We have been regressing for years, you only have to look at the current panel to see that.

Hoof ball is gone and belongs in the past.

I think Kenny is out of his depth, but he has the players at least trying to playfootball which is better than losing anyway by playing hoof ball.

Rome wasn't built in a day.

What was the score in that game, can you recall?

What Mick did requires little actual work. 10 behind the ball and hoof to the lone forward. We conceded 5 because we had so many bodies behind the ball at all times. We scored 7 which is a pathetic return when we had a team like Gibraltar in the group. For reference, Switzerland and Denmark scored 19 and 23 respectively(while conceding 6 each).

To get a team functioning defensively on its own is easy, getting them to create consistent chances is hard. Kenny was at least trying to do this.