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Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,531 ✭✭✭RichieRich_89


    I would say O'Brien is a better 15 and 13 (defensively, but also in terms of finding others with a pass), but Larmour is the higher level winger. JOB covers to a higher standard more of the positions they can both play, which means his versatility is more valuable in practice.



  • Registered Users Posts: 854 ✭✭✭foxyladyxx


    I get the feeling that Jimmy O'Brien fits Farrell's game better. I am not a fan of Larmour and I suspect that Andy F feels the same. He gets into dead ends too much for my liking and often doesn't pass when a pass could potentially lead to a try.



  • Registered Users Posts: 854 ✭✭✭foxyladyxx


    I don't know how to edit my post but intended to ETA that I don't feel that Baloucune or Stockdale will feature either. Hope I am proved wrong.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,840 ✭✭✭ionadnapokot


    Just thinking about the disallowed try at the start of the 2nd half and the amount of times JGP took that ball down the short side. It was weird. I think Australia were even down to 13!

    Appeared to be a common trend with the scrumhalf taking more of the play over the Nov. Even Murray made a break in the SA game!

    Ireland played allot through Park and McCloskey v Aus. Obvious enough because it was just Crowley's 7th start in senior rugby! Given the circumstances I think he did excellently. This was no rabbit in headlights e.g. v Scot 6N '13.

    Only big concerns Ireland must have is the lack of cutting edge on 1st phase and continued inability to capitalise when they have the numerical advantage.

    8 games for the provinces before the 6N squad is announced. Andy on the phone to his old buddy about max game time for both Carbery & Crowley.



  • Registered Users Posts: 532 ✭✭✭MurDawg


    Most likely to lose a starting 15 spot?


    Forwards: Has to be POM, Id have Beirne at 6 when Henderson is back.

    Backs: Any winger has a chance based on form, Hansen was poor in 2/3 tests. Lowe was a big loss I thought.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 8,571 ✭✭✭Dubinusa


    Problem is that injuries will play a part. The more lads comfortable in the system and who can play competently, the better. There's so many moving parts to a tournament and it's hard to get it right.

    One of my concerns is the refs. There's such a disparity among the way they enforce the laws. Plus, the pressure they are under. Reffing France will be a nightmare, imo. Coaches talk about small margins and these are the worries. Can we as a squad interchange players comfortably? Can we manage or kick on if Sexton goes down? We need to go into the world cup confident. The last time out, there was doubt, there was only one plan and we were brutal.

    Losing the qf in 2019 was bad enough but, the way we lost was the disappointing thing. We were outplayed and out coached. Farrell probably sees that we weren't great this autumn and will need to work on some things.

    The squad is not set in stone yet. There's not much time left but there are some spots up for grabs.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    No, tbh, we can't win if Sexton goes down. It is what it is, he's our best player and no other 10 is remotely close, nor will they be 12 months from now regardless of how much gametime they get between now and then.

    We're not guaranteed to win big games with him, I don't think we can do it without him.

    This isn't unusual though - there isn't a team in the tournament that isn't materially weaker absent it's most important player.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,571 ✭✭✭Dubinusa


    There is a a chance though that Crowley can insert himself as a viable back up. We probably can't win if Sexton goes down and that's unfortunate. It is poor that we've struggled to develop another quality 10.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    They don't exactly grow on trees though. A lot of countries are going into this WC with uncertainty at the position.

    We've attempted a whole litany of guys in the position over the years, but none of them are generational talents like Sexton.

    If you looked across other nations though:

    -NZ have chopped and changed between both Beauden Barrett & Richie Mo'unga and seem unable to settle on one.

    -England are backing Marcus Smith but he's not without his issues, and they're probably still a more effective side with a Farrell-Slade-Tuilagi 10-12-13 axis.

    -SA have wanted to go a different direction from Pollard (who also has had durability issues), but can't find a solution. Libbok looked good at the weekend but is pretty raw despite being 25. Willemse isn't the answer. Pollard is a good game manager but stifles their attack completely.

    -Australia are relying on the incredibly average Bernard Foley this series, and their hopes are pinned on the also extremely injury prone and soon to be 35 Quade Cooper.

    -Finn Russell wasn't even in Scotland's squad for the first game of this series, and while he's turned in two good performances and looks a better player when he plays a bit within himself, you always have a sense there is an implosion in a big spot just around the corner with him.

    -Romain Ntamack has looked off form for the best part of 2022. France have some talented deputies potentially in Jalibert and Carbonnel, and probably have the best overall situation at 10.

    In the ideal world, Crowley beats out Joey to get a lot of meaningful game time at 10 for Munster, and is someone we can rely on as a backup for the RWC and to hopefully take the reins beyond it, but who knows?



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,886 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Yes, it was utterly infuriating. why you would go down the blindside when you are facing 13 with 8 of them in the scrum is completely beyond me (though maybe that's why I'm not an international player or coach)



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  • Registered Users Posts: 14,599 ✭✭✭✭CIARAN_BOYLE



    I can understand going blindside once. The Australian backs were split 4 on the openside and 0 on the blindside.


    Go blindside once. See if they can scramble across. Maybe you can get a try. If not you have warned them and they need to respect the blindside threat which will open up more space on the openside. I guarantee Conway or Baloucoune or Stockdale would have scored a try that way on thr blindside with no defending backs. They are just a little faster.


    So yes I agree with going blindside the first time. Going blindside the second time was just craziness.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,571 ✭✭✭Dubinusa


    But, it's still surprising that they didn't go the openside? They could have carved the defense open with a little bit of guile.



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,920 ✭✭✭✭stephen_n


    Going blindside against an uncontested scrum is insanity. You face a winger, scrumhalf, wingforward and eight. All defending maybe 15 meters of space. It’s a 2 on 4 situation with little or no room. I’m not sure who called it but they need their head examined.



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,458 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    I could see 9 being a position with potential for disruption . There's no guarantee that JGP will continue to start ahead of McGrath for Leinster. They've gone back and forth over the years, and Cullen might need see a value in McGrath over JGP.

    Additionally, I'd wonder if Farrell will want to have a 9 who can take on running a game more directly, given the issues our attack has had without Sexton. A 9 in the classic French mold of Parra or similar to how Aaron Smith ran things vs us in the first test.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,886 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    If we had a 9 in the mould of Parra I'd be **** laughing, but I'm not sure who you think that is?

    JGP may not continue to start for Leinster but he will get enough gametime that Farrell won't need to worry if he thinks he suits Ireland best. Sexton runs the game when he plays, and the 9 has to know that. You could make an argument for a different 9 if he's not there though (Murray, if he wasn't playing so poorly, would be a good shout).



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,840 ✭✭✭ionadnapokot


    Maybe it's a case of JGP playing 'heads up' rugby as opposed to logical rugby!!

    If Ireland are ever lucky enough to encounter this situation again they better just put it through the hands. Nice and simple.

    Against NZ in the 2nd Test they also had the red and yellow v's an uncontested scrum. They went wide but over complicated it a little and Lowe knocked on.

    In fact Ireland didnt manage that period v NZ against the 13 men at all well either. They force it or rush it a little when they have the numerical advantage.



  • Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 35,462 Mod ✭✭✭✭pickarooney


    Same scenario against Italy and Fiji really



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,458 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    Doak might be in that mold perhaps, though I doubt he'll threaten the 23 for another season. I'd say Cooney fits it too, tho obviously he's not an option.



  • Registered Users Posts: 160 ✭✭letsbefair


    The try was missed by a tiny margin. Hindsight is great. Dishing players for one play in a match when they Won the match is really harsh boys. They are no.1 in the world, maybe fill your pint half full and look at all the amazing positives that little old Ireland is up there with the best.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,194 ✭✭✭Must love hardship


    I dont think JGP is the same player without Sexton dictating the plays and also Henshaw outside sexton giving additional advice.

    He seemed to want to "mind" Crowley and just made a number of mistakes and poor calls.

    I also thing he is targetted under a high ball. France have done it a few times and now Australia too. When JGP kicks his box kick he doesn't chase it.. he sits back in the back field.

    If the opposition win the kick I have seen a few teams target him with a kick straight away.. he has lost a number of these.. its just not a strength of his game.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,840 ✭✭✭ionadnapokot


    It's the game management aspect of his game that is prob the weakness that harms the team the most. That definitely suffers without Sexton and that's fair enough. The fact that his kicking is average exacerbated the task of easing Crowley into the game.

    Australia did a number on Ireland in the air in general. Nawaqanitawase switched to left wing and I thought Hansen had a poor game on him. Prob his worst defensive display for Ireland. JOB also really struggled in the air and everywhere up against Petaia. He made JOB look very ordinary. Petaia is sensational and if he stays fit could transform that Australia side.

    There is no question that JGP is invaluable to Ireland. His tempo, speed of pass and ability to break and link up with others outweighs all the rest. He didnt play well this Nov though. 4 months without rugby didn't help...or Michael Hooper.



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,105 ✭✭✭✭Interested Observer


    I thought JGP played pretty well when he came on against SA. Agree he wasn't as good against Aus.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,840 ✭✭✭ionadnapokot


    I suppose he did. It was hard for him and Ireland to build that multi-phase against the Boks blitz. He was the one of course who made that break inside the blitz to set up the Hansen try.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,571 ✭✭✭Dubinusa


    JGP and Keenan just returned after long lay offs. I do think JGP is better alongside Sexton but, Oz really put it to us in the rucks. We tried running McCloskey up the 10 channel with not enough support. Oz were all over us at the breakdown. Oz also did well under the highball. It's usually a good strategy for us and we generally kick chase very well. Was our kicking game poor? Would Murray have done better?

    We won all 3 matches so there's that. I still think we have some things to work on. The revolving door of Sextons back up continues. For such a big event. Crowley did fairly well. JGP was poor and our wings didn't play very well. Farrell has really got quite a good look at several different lads under different types of matches. While we can point at lads missing etc, we really benefited from the other boys stepping in.

    Craig Casey did really well when he came on. He's a real talent and he will be vital for us going forward. Ross Byrne is decent and cool under pressure. I doubt he's in the plans barring injuries. He would be a break glass option.

    Overall, we did ok. Some lads bedded in and we were under stress. We managed to get over the finish line and physicality wise, we did well. I do think that Oz will be happy also! Their backline has quality and the pack was good. They are building a little. Who knows, the grouping that they are in and the pathway to the semis, Oz could be there this world cup.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,840 ✭✭✭ionadnapokot


    Casey is looking sharper and I would say, like most, he is glad that Munster are embracing Prendergast's style and he can play a bit of rugby again.

    Calvin Nash in todays IT mentioning that the attack coach suits his play 'a bit more'.

    His comments also highlighting what Ireland are looking for in their wingers.

    Ireland's use of Lowe really clicked into gear last Nov behind those forward pods (1-3-2-2). Hansen filled that role this Nov and I felt that Baloucoune and JOB were the winger's used to hold width.

    Lowe is vital for Ireland. I wonder will Hansen hold on to that 14 jersey as another playmaker or will they go back to Baloucoune (or Conway, or Nash... or Earls!) as a more traditional winger.


    -------------------------------------

    “I think Prendy coming in, the game suits me a bit more and I feel like I’m a bit more involved, and I feel like that’s kind of the way Ireland are going as well, they want their wingers more involved.

    “That’s kind of been a focus for me, being involved more, whether it’s showing up as an option off 10 or nine, just trying to be in different positions all the time.”

    ------------------------------------

    “I’m happy that my form is along the same as the teams I’ve been in, and I feel I’ve learned a lot; from Emerging Ireland through to getting the call-up to the main squad with Ireland, and coming back here, I’m trying to put everything I learned into practice.

    “It was all positive really, but Faz’s (Farrell’s) main thing for me was what am I going to do with the experience, now that I’ve games coming back into Munster and how am I going to use my knowledge, and is he going to see that on the pitch, is it going to be reflected there and in some of Munster’s performances am I going to affect what way the games go?

    https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/2022/11/30/calvin-nash-hopes-landmark-try-is-a-sign-of-even-better-things-to-come/



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,988 ✭✭✭leakyboots


    Is James Lowe really 'vital'? I wouldn't have thought so



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,091 ✭✭✭✭nerd69


    Big left boot for clearances is. He has a vital tool



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,240 ✭✭✭sprucemoose


    i think lowe is going to be a very interesting one when he comes back. he was fantastic last season and so many have him as a nailed on starter, but he also had a pretty poor season previous to last so i dont know should he necessarily be a guaranteed starter yet

    if his form is anywhere near where it was then he most likely will be starting every big game. if it isnt then there are others who can fill that role (apart from left-foot kicking maybe, but that can be worked around), should be pretty straightforward



  • Registered Users Posts: 49 Sleepy Joseph


    Hopefully he hasn’t piled on the chub when he’s been out injured. He’s a demon for the Eddie Rockets by some accounts.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 17,169 ✭✭✭✭Clegg


    Lowe is vital to how Ireland play I think. Farrell wants his wings to come infield and acting as auxiliary playmakers. Lowe has an excellent offloading game and is very adept at drawing the man and passing. Suits Farrell's tactics well.

    He's also a brute of a carrier and is more than capable of getting over the gainline as a crash ball option.



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