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Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,420 ✭✭✭✭phog


    Neither team played well and the scoreline reflected that.

    That would be my take on it too



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,392 ✭✭✭GiftofGab


    Very successful year. Winning Triple Crown and coming 2nd in 6N to a very good French team. Winning a tour series in NZ then winning all autumn internationals including games vs South Africa and Australia. Irish rugby has come a long way.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,630 ✭✭✭Dubinusa


    True enough they weren't great either. But they had territory and possession and won the battle up front for large periods. Foley missed a fairly easy penalty that would have tied the match and the try that was ruled out.

    We were 2nd best in lots of the exchanges! It was not fluid and several lads were not on point. But, here we are, a win, ugly as it was.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,630 ✭✭✭Dubinusa


    So, with Sexton out and a novice at 10, we scrape a win! That's the best news. Crowley has been getting some flak and I think it's misplaced. He didn't have a platform as the pack was under pressure. This is where lads learn and gain experience.

    Oz are big lads, very big! They are also skillful and fit. The results they have this year are bizarre! I can see them making a good run next year. I think that backrow was top notch and we struggled with them. Regardless of how the ref ran the breakdown, it's our job to lay the ref. We still have a way to go.

    I think that Beirne at 6 with Henderson in the 2nd row would have benifed us. Henderson was missed. We do have options going forward and there's always going to be injured players. The depth is developing in the squad. Yesterday would have been ideal for Loughman to be tested. The 6nations is coming up and I am fairly confident that we are in a good position even with key lads injured.



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,920 ✭✭✭✭stephen_n


    It’s funny, other teams are now trying to do to Ireland, what we did to them under Joe. Ultra low risk, slow the game down and try to hold onto the ball as long as possible.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,154 ✭✭✭✭Neil3030


    I actually think this little wobble is at the perfect time for Ireland. The Farrell-era attack has been tearing teams apart that are set up to play against our Schmidt-era narrower attack. Teams are now set up to play against the Farrell-era attack, and we're struggling to look as convincing. Better this happens now, and we have a year before the RWC, to make the required adjustments.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,258 ✭✭✭✭Clegg


    I think it's right to start considering James Ryan as one of our best players again. He was excellent in New Zealand and has kept his form up. Made some huge contributions against South Africa and Australia, especially at the lineout. Stole two opposition attacking lineouts on our own 5m line.




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,258 ✭✭✭✭Clegg




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,284 ✭✭✭Former Former Former


    Absolutely deserved, incredible achievement



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,920 ✭✭✭✭stephen_n


    Well deserved. Even though Savea wasn’t nominated and he definitely should have been, I think VDF still deserved it.



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  • Site Banned Posts: 12,341 ✭✭✭✭Faugheen


    I've been banging that drum for a long time and I'm delighted to see it being recognised. He's been excellent in the last 18 months-2 years.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 739 ✭✭✭phily2002


    Sexton, Furlong and Beirne also making the dream team. Good representation for us overall.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,965 ✭✭✭connachta


    Hensen and Sheehan for the least unlucky to be ehind Cappuzo for revelation of the year



  • Posts: 0 ✭✭✭✭ Everleigh Freezing Oasis


    I think Ryan has been absolutely brilliant since the summer. He was never as bad as people said he was. He's clearly a leader within the team and squad. We're very fortunate to have him.

    One thing though, does anyone think he goes into rucks in a slightly, eh, uncontrolled manner sometimes? I don't think he's been carded or even penalised for it but there's the odd one that I think is fairly on the edge. Agree with the tweet above though he's been incredibly physical recently. As stupid as this sounds but he was so young breaking through that maybe it's coming with age.


    Also, what an honour for VDF. It's totally deserved and his name is going on a list along with some genuine all time greats.



  • Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 35,514 Mod ✭✭✭✭pickarooney


    Twice in a row for Furlong for anyone wondering if it was only Irish people that rated him.



  • Posts: 0 ✭✭✭✭ Everleigh Freezing Oasis


    He's started something absurd like 9 consecutive Lions tests. I don't really think there's an iota of doubt anywhere over Furlong.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,751 ✭✭✭✭AdamD


    I actually thought Hansen had quite a poor series, don't think his position is locked down.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I thought he had a terrific game against South Africa and I don't think any other wing option stood out this international window. I'd say his stock is up a fair bit, all fit I'd be astounded if Hansen / Lowe weren't our starting wings.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,630 ✭✭✭Dubinusa


    If Conway comes back strong, I think he's definitely on the boat to France. Lads like Stockdale and Baloucoune need a serious run. Stockdale hasn't played much and has a lot to prove. JOB is versatile, that's probably key for him. He is good all over the backline, without being a lock.

    Larmour will not make it. He's just our under the high ball and it hasn't seemed to improve. If he could improve in this facet, he would make it. It's a shame as he is like a phantom carrying the ball. He could skin a cat in a phone booth and destroy a backline. But, the negative impact of fielding is too much to overlook.

    We really do not have much pace on the wings. Baloucoune aside, we're quite pedestrian.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,630 ✭✭✭Dubinusa


    I wonder if the IRFU could host a EI type tour next summer. Or even an A squad to run out against some world cup qualified sides? There was the Tblisi event a few years ago. I would think that this type of challenge really does bring out some players.



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  • Administrators Posts: 54,125 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    Baloucoune has been named on Ulster's injury list today (hamstring), which may explain why he wasn't selected at the weekend.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 739 ✭✭✭phily2002


    Larmour was brilliant when he got back at the end of last season. He's just been really unlucky with injuries. He has something the other wingers don't have with his footwork. If he comes back in that form he'll make it. Conway also on form is brilliant.

    I think it'll come down to form and injuries. Serious competition there which is great.

    I'd go with the form 5 out this 6

    Lowe, Keenan, Balacoune, Hanson, Conway and Larmour.

    I can't see Earls or Stockdale getting back in unless there is injuries



  • Posts: 0 ✭✭✭✭ Everleigh Freezing Oasis


    I'm going to guess Larmour doesn't make it. Even in that fantastic form last season he wasn't making the Irish 23.



  • Posts: 0 ✭✭✭✭ Everleigh Freezing Oasis


    You'd forget about all these awards but just saw on twitter as a reminder, VdF also won European player of the year, Irish players player of the year and Irish rugby writers player of the year. Some going.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,630 ✭✭✭Dubinusa


    Vdf is so yesterday! So what if he's world player of the year, it's over rated! Lol.

    Fantastic achievement.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,586 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    The Larmour from last season has everything JOB has and an ability to spark a break from nothing. Remember he's slotted into the centre fro Leinster and looked comfortable there. If he can get an injury free run, and play like he was last season, I think he takes a spot.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 27,383 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    I haven't looked it up, but I'm gonna throw it out there that no he hasn't cause I'm not sure he had even started for Leinster before the 2013 test series.

    I think he has 6 in a row with a good shout of more thought.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,174 ✭✭✭Lost Ormond


    Spot on Podge. Made Leinster debut in the October or November after that Lions summer. He wasnt even 21 years of age in 2013 for the tour...



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,194 ✭✭✭Must love hardship


    It was a disgrace the way Gatland showed his anti irish prejudice again not picking Furlong to start all 3 tests on the 2013 tour... before he had made his debut for leinster.



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  • Posts: 0 ✭✭✭✭ Everleigh Freezing Oasis


    Fair enough, obviously thinking of someone else then. 6 in a row still ain't bad.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,588 ✭✭✭RichieRich_89


    I would say O'Brien is a better 15 and 13 (defensively, but also in terms of finding others with a pass), but Larmour is the higher level winger. JOB covers to a higher standard more of the positions they can both play, which means his versatility is more valuable in practice.



  • Registered Users Posts: 855 ✭✭✭foxyladyxx


    I get the feeling that Jimmy O'Brien fits Farrell's game better. I am not a fan of Larmour and I suspect that Andy F feels the same. He gets into dead ends too much for my liking and often doesn't pass when a pass could potentially lead to a try.



  • Registered Users Posts: 855 ✭✭✭foxyladyxx


    I don't know how to edit my post but intended to ETA that I don't feel that Baloucune or Stockdale will feature either. Hope I am proved wrong.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,861 ✭✭✭ionadnapokot


    Just thinking about the disallowed try at the start of the 2nd half and the amount of times JGP took that ball down the short side. It was weird. I think Australia were even down to 13!

    Appeared to be a common trend with the scrumhalf taking more of the play over the Nov. Even Murray made a break in the SA game!

    Ireland played allot through Park and McCloskey v Aus. Obvious enough because it was just Crowley's 7th start in senior rugby! Given the circumstances I think he did excellently. This was no rabbit in headlights e.g. v Scot 6N '13.

    Only big concerns Ireland must have is the lack of cutting edge on 1st phase and continued inability to capitalise when they have the numerical advantage.

    8 games for the provinces before the 6N squad is announced. Andy on the phone to his old buddy about max game time for both Carbery & Crowley.



  • Registered Users Posts: 533 ✭✭✭MurDawg


    Most likely to lose a starting 15 spot?


    Forwards: Has to be POM, Id have Beirne at 6 when Henderson is back.

    Backs: Any winger has a chance based on form, Hansen was poor in 2/3 tests. Lowe was a big loss I thought.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,630 ✭✭✭Dubinusa


    Problem is that injuries will play a part. The more lads comfortable in the system and who can play competently, the better. There's so many moving parts to a tournament and it's hard to get it right.

    One of my concerns is the refs. There's such a disparity among the way they enforce the laws. Plus, the pressure they are under. Reffing France will be a nightmare, imo. Coaches talk about small margins and these are the worries. Can we as a squad interchange players comfortably? Can we manage or kick on if Sexton goes down? We need to go into the world cup confident. The last time out, there was doubt, there was only one plan and we were brutal.

    Losing the qf in 2019 was bad enough but, the way we lost was the disappointing thing. We were outplayed and out coached. Farrell probably sees that we weren't great this autumn and will need to work on some things.

    The squad is not set in stone yet. There's not much time left but there are some spots up for grabs.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    No, tbh, we can't win if Sexton goes down. It is what it is, he's our best player and no other 10 is remotely close, nor will they be 12 months from now regardless of how much gametime they get between now and then.

    We're not guaranteed to win big games with him, I don't think we can do it without him.

    This isn't unusual though - there isn't a team in the tournament that isn't materially weaker absent it's most important player.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,630 ✭✭✭Dubinusa


    There is a a chance though that Crowley can insert himself as a viable back up. We probably can't win if Sexton goes down and that's unfortunate. It is poor that we've struggled to develop another quality 10.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    They don't exactly grow on trees though. A lot of countries are going into this WC with uncertainty at the position.

    We've attempted a whole litany of guys in the position over the years, but none of them are generational talents like Sexton.

    If you looked across other nations though:

    -NZ have chopped and changed between both Beauden Barrett & Richie Mo'unga and seem unable to settle on one.

    -England are backing Marcus Smith but he's not without his issues, and they're probably still a more effective side with a Farrell-Slade-Tuilagi 10-12-13 axis.

    -SA have wanted to go a different direction from Pollard (who also has had durability issues), but can't find a solution. Libbok looked good at the weekend but is pretty raw despite being 25. Willemse isn't the answer. Pollard is a good game manager but stifles their attack completely.

    -Australia are relying on the incredibly average Bernard Foley this series, and their hopes are pinned on the also extremely injury prone and soon to be 35 Quade Cooper.

    -Finn Russell wasn't even in Scotland's squad for the first game of this series, and while he's turned in two good performances and looks a better player when he plays a bit within himself, you always have a sense there is an implosion in a big spot just around the corner with him.

    -Romain Ntamack has looked off form for the best part of 2022. France have some talented deputies potentially in Jalibert and Carbonnel, and probably have the best overall situation at 10.

    In the ideal world, Crowley beats out Joey to get a lot of meaningful game time at 10 for Munster, and is someone we can rely on as a backup for the RWC and to hopefully take the reins beyond it, but who knows?



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 27,383 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Yes, it was utterly infuriating. why you would go down the blindside when you are facing 13 with 8 of them in the scrum is completely beyond me (though maybe that's why I'm not an international player or coach)



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,599 ✭✭✭✭CIARAN_BOYLE



    I can understand going blindside once. The Australian backs were split 4 on the openside and 0 on the blindside.


    Go blindside once. See if they can scramble across. Maybe you can get a try. If not you have warned them and they need to respect the blindside threat which will open up more space on the openside. I guarantee Conway or Baloucoune or Stockdale would have scored a try that way on thr blindside with no defending backs. They are just a little faster.


    So yes I agree with going blindside the first time. Going blindside the second time was just craziness.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,630 ✭✭✭Dubinusa


    But, it's still surprising that they didn't go the openside? They could have carved the defense open with a little bit of guile.



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,920 ✭✭✭✭stephen_n


    Going blindside against an uncontested scrum is insanity. You face a winger, scrumhalf, wingforward and eight. All defending maybe 15 meters of space. It’s a 2 on 4 situation with little or no room. I’m not sure who called it but they need their head examined.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,586 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    I could see 9 being a position with potential for disruption . There's no guarantee that JGP will continue to start ahead of McGrath for Leinster. They've gone back and forth over the years, and Cullen might need see a value in McGrath over JGP.

    Additionally, I'd wonder if Farrell will want to have a 9 who can take on running a game more directly, given the issues our attack has had without Sexton. A 9 in the classic French mold of Parra or similar to how Aaron Smith ran things vs us in the first test.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 27,383 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    If we had a 9 in the mould of Parra I'd be **** laughing, but I'm not sure who you think that is?

    JGP may not continue to start for Leinster but he will get enough gametime that Farrell won't need to worry if he thinks he suits Ireland best. Sexton runs the game when he plays, and the 9 has to know that. You could make an argument for a different 9 if he's not there though (Murray, if he wasn't playing so poorly, would be a good shout).



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,861 ✭✭✭ionadnapokot


    Maybe it's a case of JGP playing 'heads up' rugby as opposed to logical rugby!!

    If Ireland are ever lucky enough to encounter this situation again they better just put it through the hands. Nice and simple.

    Against NZ in the 2nd Test they also had the red and yellow v's an uncontested scrum. They went wide but over complicated it a little and Lowe knocked on.

    In fact Ireland didnt manage that period v NZ against the 13 men at all well either. They force it or rush it a little when they have the numerical advantage.



  • Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 35,514 Mod ✭✭✭✭pickarooney


    Same scenario against Italy and Fiji really



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,586 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    Doak might be in that mold perhaps, though I doubt he'll threaten the 23 for another season. I'd say Cooney fits it too, tho obviously he's not an option.



  • Registered Users Posts: 163 ✭✭letsbefair


    The try was missed by a tiny margin. Hindsight is great. Dishing players for one play in a match when they Won the match is really harsh boys. They are no.1 in the world, maybe fill your pint half full and look at all the amazing positives that little old Ireland is up there with the best.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,194 ✭✭✭Must love hardship


    I dont think JGP is the same player without Sexton dictating the plays and also Henshaw outside sexton giving additional advice.

    He seemed to want to "mind" Crowley and just made a number of mistakes and poor calls.

    I also thing he is targetted under a high ball. France have done it a few times and now Australia too. When JGP kicks his box kick he doesn't chase it.. he sits back in the back field.

    If the opposition win the kick I have seen a few teams target him with a kick straight away.. he has lost a number of these.. its just not a strength of his game.



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