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"Green" policies are destroying this country

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  • Registered Users Posts: 596 ✭✭✭deholleboom


    It is interesting to dive into the history of mathusian thinking. In a nutshell: right leaning victorian England thinking that the earth could not sustain more than an x amount of people ie, indians and irish breeding like rats mainly opposed by the left. Then the environmentalists / the left took up the idea and ran with it (Ehrlig et al), new ecologists end of the 60s up to now. Their idea has been bankrupt for decades but people refuse to see it. It was good enough to attack the right wing for it back then until they used the very same idea for their purposes. And now they push it down people's throat.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    looks at @DaCor its no longer about climate change for him as he admitted earlier in thread

    Go ahead and quote the post where I said that

    I'll wait



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,556 ✭✭✭Micky 32


    Unfortunately the world is full of people who can’t stand Johhny up the road buying a shiney new car every few years or Maisey down the road heading off to Spain to her holiday home. A lot of people would love to see that stopped. It’s not just about the climate for them. Going by my experience anyway.

    Post edited by Micky 32 on


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Go ahead and quote for post where I stated "its no longer about climate change" as you claim I admitted earlier in thread

    You won't be able to as you're lying but by all means, prove me wrong



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    As I said, lying

    It always has been and always will be, about climate change for me

    Thanks for the interest though



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    You left out branding them with hot irons and putting them into indentured servitude for several generations.

    I mean if you're going to make up nonsense why not go the full hog.

    In other news, the windfall tax should be signed off soon




  • Registered Users Posts: 11,205 ✭✭✭✭Furze99


    I'm simply pointing out that 'fewer humans and lower living standards' would be a truer Green message. But it's a very unpalatable idea to sell and get voted in on.

    If people can't or won't see the adverse impact of the growing human population combined with the desire for high living standards, then they've got their heads well and truly stuck in the sand or up their holes.

    Just wee Ireland here is a very different place in terms of above and bio diversity since I was a child in the 1960s & 70s. Big changes.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    How you chose to twist what I did or didn't say is something for you to come to terms with. Not something for me to worry about 🙂

    In the meantime this thread is not about me so if you wish to discuss further by all means feel free to PM me as I feel we are beginning to derail the thread



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,321 ✭✭✭arctictree


    This windfall tax seems very strange.

    So for the last few months there has been PR after PR release from the energy companies that they need to raise prices because of x,y,z...

    And now we are introducing this windfall tax because they are making too much profit??



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,848 ✭✭✭?Cee?view


    As the Sportscasters say, I agree "110%". Politics is being introduced to schools in the guise on environmentalism and it's blatant.

    Both books you quote are excellent reads btw



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  • Registered Users Posts: 596 ✭✭✭deholleboom


    It is the kind of diversity i would like to see. But words do not have the meaning they used to have. In a post modern world everybody can say a word can mean anything they think it means. Or be anything they think they might be. Well, ok, from now on im an obese black vegan lesbian one legged tarzan in training for the olympics. Because i say so you have to, also call me that. No diversity for you..😁



  • Registered Users Posts: 24,069 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    Politics was always in schools.

    History, Geography, Economics, Civics, Religious Studies, Social and Scientific, debates, etc.

    It should never be a bad thing that young people are encouraged to think on issues of the day and reflect on the lessons of the past. And to be encouraged to draw conclusions for themselves. They're citizens of this planet too.



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,380 ✭✭✭✭ednwireland


    exactly energy companies are saying we are only putting the prices up because the raw materials are costing us more. when actually they are hiking prices and making massive profits.

    I suspect they are putting the prices up way ahead of prices ti make sure they are covered just in case and if it doesn't go up as high bingo record profits.

    noticeable diesel is down 30cents at the pump from 2 weeks ago.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Just on schools, isn't there something proposed to reduce the voting age to 16. Will be interesting to see what impact that would have on poll numbers if it comes to pass



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    That means they have to be given a range of opinions on something. Not spoon fed a position. And by that I don’t mean climate change denial….I mean the true practicalities in terms of response

    instead I’ve seen school kids come out with ‘ban farming because it contributes to global warming’ type stuff. They’re not being taught real world practicalities



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,321 ✭✭✭arctictree


    Seems a bit strange though that a Government can tell certain companies that they cant make profits. Seems like a very slippery slope. Is that even constitutional?



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Where taxes and levies are concerned, the govt has free reign



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Further details on the measures to address windfall gains

    The government has decided to place a cap on all market revenues of non-gas electricity generators. Excess revenues will be collected and used to support electricity consumers.

    The cap on market revenues will apply to non-gas electricity generators with a capacity of 1 MW or more as follows:

    a cap of €120 per MWh for wind and solar

    a cap of at least €180 per MWh for oil-fired and coal-fired generation

    a cap of €180 per MWh on other non-gas generation

    The €120 per MWh cap for wind and solar takes into account the revenues generators would have expected to earn prior to the increase in gas prices, which was less than €100 per MWh, and the limited increase in costs incurred by these generators. It should also be noted that where electricity suppliers can demonstrate that revenues in excess of the cap are being passed on through lower prices to final consumers, those revenues will not be subject to the cap. The cap on market revenues will operate from December 2022 to June 2023 inclusive, as set out in the Council Regulation.

    The government has also decided to implement the temporary solidarity contribution, as set out in the Council Regulation, to companies active in fossil fuel production and refining for the years 2022 and 2023.

    The temporary solidarity contribution is calculated based on the portion of a company’s taxable profits which are more than 20% higher than a baseline. The baseline will be the average taxable profits for the company for the period 2018 to 2021. Losses from previous years will not be taken into account in the calculation of the taxable profits in temporary solidarity contribution or the baseline.

    Taxable profits which are more than 20% above the baseline will be subject to the temporary solidarity contribution at a rate of 75%. This will lead to an effective rate of 0% for windfall gains of up to 20%, an effective rate of 50% for windfall gains of 60%* and an effective rate of 60% for windfall gains of 100% (that is, where profits have doubled).

    Given the volatility of gas prices, the level of proceeds from the cap on market revenues and the temporary solidarity contribution cannot be estimated with any certainty. Depending on the price level of natural gas, the proceeds could range from circa €300 million to €1.9 billion. However, the level is expected to be in the lower end of this range and could be even lower if gas prices reduce.

    Proceeds from the cap on market revenues are expected to be collected in 2023, with proceeds from the temporary solidarity contribution to be collected in 2023 and 2024.

    The Council Regulation sets out that the proceeds can be used to the benefit of electricity consumers. This could include reductions in networks charges or supports provided directly to consumers, similar to those already in place. The government will determine, in due course, how best to distribute these proceeds.

    You can find the EU related regulation below




  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Just announced, a consultation on energy storage for Ireland

    The closing date for submissions is 5.30pm on Friday, 27 January 2023

    This is in line with the EU's REPowerEU programme which aims to "transform Europe's energy system: ending the EU's dependence on Russian fossil fuels, which are used as an economic and political weapon and cost European taxpayers nearly €100 billion per year, and tackling the climate crisis. The measures in the REPowerEU Plan can respond to this ambition, through energy savings, diversification of energy supplies, and accelerated roll-out of renewable energy to replace fossil fuels in homes, industry and power generation. The green transformation will strengthen economic growth, security, and climate action for Europe and our partners. "




  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Marginal pricing i.e. the crazy high price of gas is causing all sources to be priced at that crazy high price



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  • Registered Users Posts: 14,380 ✭✭✭✭ednwireland




  • Registered Users Posts: 15,126 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    I doubt it would matter. The Irish Green Party would still be a tail of the dog political party.

    They got a soft ride in the past being viewed as harmless enough as people went through the ballot. That, and Sinn Fein not putting enough candidates forward in the last G.E. helped them win seats by staying ahead in counts, but that is not going to happen next time around. Especially for those seats Sinn Fein feel they left behind them. For myself any party that canvasses me will be asked to state clearly their intentions as too tagging on the Greens should the cards fall that way, and I would encourage others to do the same, with a reminder to the canvasser that memories are longer than Dail or local election terms.

    There does appear to be serious indoctrirnation being aimed at the young, so I can see why lowering the voting age to 16 would appeal to greens, but it would only be a short term gain in a democracy. The young tend to vote with their hearts when being funded by the bank of mum and dad. When they hit the age where financially they have to stand on their own two feet the head very quickly takes over. Indoctrination is key to a system surviving in totalitarian states, but it doesn`t work for democracies, and none of the totalitarian states are interested in the green agenda anyway. It doesn`t even appear to be working here with the young voters. After years of green hype on nuclear, 60% of those aged 18 - 24 are in favour of nuclear. Even Greta now thinks the German`s a bit daft when it comes to nuclear.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,913 ✭✭✭Danno




  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    The proposal to reduce the voting age was put forward by an Independent, Donegal TD Thomas Pringle, who has been banging on this particular drum for several years, nothing to do with the greens



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,126 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    There has been a lot of talk on a windfall tax, but a lot of foot-dragging and nothing much else.

    A windfall tax would hit the renewable energy companies as it is meant to bring prices down. Applying it to fossil fuels when you are depending on them to keep the lights on, especially when previously attempting to screw them with a taxonomy policy, would only be counterproductive.

    They greens realise that and know that when the massive profits now being earned by renewables are cut due to a windfall tax so will the incentive be for investment in their next great white hopes, offshore and hydrogen. On top of which to varying degrees both are much more precarious investments than onshore or solar.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,913 ✭✭✭Danno


    The price of electricity charged to industrial users fell by 52% in October. This comes after a drop of 27% in electricity prices in September.

    The price of electricity on the wholesale market is now cheaper than at any time over the past 12 months and is 37% cheaper than October 2021.

    ...

    Much of the fall in wholesale electricity prices is related to a drop in wholesale gas prices which have fallen by around 70% since their peak in August.

    Just this week, ESB ecars wrote to customers of its on-street electric vehicle chargers to inform them prices are increasing by about 50% from December 20.

    Good to see, lets see the retail price fall quickly now in line - but the cynic in me thinks they'll wait till after winter when the €600 government grants are used up.



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,126 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    I didn`t say it did. I said. "I can see why lowering the voting age to 16 would appeal to greens"

    As that is all you could find in my post to niggle about, it looks as if you are very much of the same opinion.



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,126 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    That was always going to happen, anybody that bought an E.V. based on recharging prices staying the same were foolish.

    I don`t see where greens have any reason to quibble. Their carbon tax is all about paying individually for what you use so why should everyone else pay for their electricity.



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,126 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    After all the times it has been explained to you, you still do not have a clue on the marginal pricing policy.

    It really isn`t complicated.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 15,126 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    If all the other countries in Europe followed our greens policy on LNG terminals and storage there would be no drop in prices. Prices go up when demand goes up, they drop when demand drops.

    Europe has it`s storage tanks full due to LNG, but will that teach our muppets anything. I very much doubt it on past evidence.



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