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"Green" policies are destroying this country

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  • Registered Users Posts: 596 ✭✭✭deholleboom


    Seeing my former post got no response or support i take it everybody seems to like being in the same sandpit.

    So im getting out of this idiotic (not so) merrygoround.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,848 ✭✭✭?Cee?view


    Please don't. I read this thread regularly as it's a good resource to learn from and points to other enlightening resources. Yes, the one cutter and paster is annoying and I give him no satisfaction by responsing, but I can understand how some others feel the need to counter what he's saying. It's a complete waste of time in one way as he doesn't respond to logic, but it is useful in that his nonsense is countered for others with less knowledge (e.g. me), to see.

    Your Dutch perspective is also very useful. That's a country that is often held us as a Green oasis, but the truth from there is instructive. In short, ignore him, and hang on please!



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Bord na Mona getting into the offshore wind business. Potentially 2.3GW by 2030. Not sure if OW have projects already under MAC or if they are just starting out

    RTE news : Bord na Móna agrees windfarm deal with Ocean Winds





  • Registered Users Posts: 2,848 ✭✭✭?Cee?view


    A friend sold his less than year old Tesla last week, and is back to a high powered Petrol car. Best timing ever!



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,848 ✭✭✭?Cee?view


    I've no problem with politics in schools, in the form of it being part of the kids' education. With the Green agenda, the politics takes the form of propaganda. They are not encouraged to think, rather they are fed the position that they are required to adopt without critical analysis.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,607 ✭✭✭ps200306


    Results which have been consistently showing that while there is oil and gas there, it can't be extracted in a profitable way.

    Once again: what results?



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    The previous test drillings & surveys going back to the early 1980's/late 70's when resources were first detected there. That nobody could make a viable commercial venture out of it since then says it all really. But hey, maybe this time it'll be different

    Before the renaming they detailed it all on their site in an easy to find spot, but they've since rejigged things under the new naming so a lot of info is gone off the site or relocated, but you're welcome to have a trawl through whats there. I've posted it previously in this and the energy infrastructure thread but those were links to their site so no idea if those will work now with the new URL but again, you're welcome to root them out and check. I did a quick scan of the site and here's a reference to a test in 2012 as well as a presentation on data collected over the years here and slide 7 of the 2020 investor pack shows data on previous tests. The 2016 AGM presentation also provides info on test results

    I wonder was the renaming of the company Goodman's idea, to try and disassociate it from the sh!tsh0w that was Providence Resources which has had several farm out agreements with APEX & Spot On collapse after they walked away. In the case of APEC, they just stopped replying to the lads in PR, I honestly lol'ed so much when I read that in the paper, its like they just listed the Providence Resource emails as spam lolol.

    It should also be noted they've form in failing to utilize licenses given they have allowed so many to expire/be relinquished over the last number of years (Dunquin South, Avalon, Kish Bank). I'm honestly surprised Goodman decided to cover them given their poor record, but maybe he's been given a majority shareholding or something to make it worth his while.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,913 ✭✭✭Danno


    The previous test drillings & surveys going back to the early 1980's/late 70's when resources were first detected there. That nobody could make a viable commercial venture out of it since then says it all really. But hey, maybe this time it'll be different

    Technical knowledge and improvements have increased greatly since the late 70s and early 80s, you know this though. The only technical improvements for Wind Turdines [sic] on the other hand in the same timeframe is to build them higher and stick them out at sea along with taxing competitive energy sources out of the market.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,732 ✭✭✭ginger22


    Dont take that idiot DaCor to heart. Personally I only laugh at his idiotic posts. No common sense just goes along with the "green" idealogy he is being fed.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Rounding back to look at the latest progress report. There looks to be a steady stream of actions being completed by all depts over the last quarter but a worrying amount still delayed.

    But looking over the past 4 quarters shows a healthier 77% rate of actions completed across all govt depts

    Some of the actions previously delayed but closed out in the last quarter include getting Metrolink moving again, making most solar panel installations exempt from planning requirements, locking down the carbon budgets and sectoral emission targets. Those last 2 will allow for a raft of additional actions to be launched over the next 2-3 quarters

    Other actions completed include

    • the Cycle Network consultation launched
    • small area native tree planting licence exemption
    • requirment for all public bodies to have a climate action plan with specified targets
    • over 200k public lights switched to LED
    • over 200 hybrid buses added to the national fleet
    • Circular Economy bill enacted
    • end issuing of new licences for exploration of gas (same as done for oil already)

    Thats just a sample and not an exhaustive list.

    One to note, a delayed action has been closed out relating to the introduction of climate change education to primary schools. Great to see that one get over the line. Education is critical

    If anyone wants to check out the most recent progress report, or older ones, you can view them at the link below




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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Here's todays fuel mix generation along with the amount of wind derived power generated. Its looks pretty good as its a windy day. What happens though as we move into the future and sources of baseload supply such as Moneypoint are shut down, especially when we might have prolonged periods of calm anticyclonic weather? What will be the power source for a baseload supply? You can't run a system without one.




  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Generation is targeted at 80% renewables by 2030. That will be a mix of onshore, offshore wind and solar. The benefit of offshore is a wider geographical spread as well as higher output and higher capacity factor.

    For the time being gas will be retained to pick up the slack until we move to 100% renewables+storage by 2050.

    Further details below




  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    You need an unvarying power source to provide a baseload supply. That rules out wind and solar at the moment unless some type of efficient energy storage system is developed and deployed along side them.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,273 ✭✭✭xxxxxxl


    second hand ev 5k. 20k for a new battery pack for example. I wager you wont be able to give them away.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,205 ✭✭✭✭Furze99


    I can reliably report that one of the climate mitigation measures that the Dept of Finance have successfully implemented over recent years is that they no longer write back to citizens when said citizens write to the minister/ department.

    Fair dues to them, it's the little things that count. Look after the cents and the € will mind themselves etc.

    On the other hand, you could just say they are lazy feckers.



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,126 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    We are dependent on gas and we cannot even put a storage system in place for that.

    Increasing renewables percentage of electricity from the present 35% to 80% in the next 7 years, plus the extra renewable electricity production that would be required to produce hydrogen to maintain the percentage of electricity from renewables at that 80%, on their own for either is pie in the sky, let alone if hydrogen would work to scale, where it would be stored or even how it would be distributed.

    And that is not to mention that renewables can not keep up with demand as we are, let alone be able to generate all the above with 1 million E.V.s and 400,000 heat pumps added. I know the 1 million E.V.s and 400,000 heat pumps is a fantasy, but it`s part of the green fantasy so it has to be taken into account in relation to their percentage renewable fantasy figures.

    Add in that the costs are completely unviable and it`s imaginary pie in a make-believe sky.

    Post edited by charlie14 on


  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 91,621 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight



    We are still on 5.7 years of primary energy. ( If that relates to the 6 million tonnes of uranium reserves it's about a million tonnes a year )

    Seawater extraction uses a lot of plastic ~1Kg per 1.5g. To extract a million tonnes a year you'd need to use 1.3 billion tons of oil to make 667 million tons of plastic a year. It's 1/3rd of the oil we currently use. (4.25Bn tons/year)


    Breeding ? Dream on. 1944 was when we started breeding plutonium in multiple reactors.PhD's were a dime a dozen, lots of Nobel Prize winners and money was no object. Don't have copper for the transformers ? Here's 14,700 tons of silver. From WWII though the cold war meant people on all sides were fired up by patriotism. At one point 7% of the electricity in the USA was used to enrich uranium, again money and resources not a problem. These were the guys who figured how to use nuclear shaped charges so almost all the blast went in one direction so you could launch spaceships.


    But sure, a lifetime later there's any number of snake oil salesmen telling you breeders will be available just as soon as you give them a few hundred million for R&D.



  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 91,621 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    BIG QUESTION - WHAT DO YOU USE FOR PEAK DAILY OR WINTER DEMAND ?

    By definition it can't be an "unvarying power source" and it can't be fossil fuel.



    We don't need baseload. Right now our grid can take up to 75% of renewables and imports over interconnectors and battery storage. Soon it will be 95% that just leaves 5% of demand for an "unvarying power source"


    Grid storage efficiency is only important if you need to keep capital costs low or are using expensive fuels. Storage does not have to be energy efficient if the energy is cheap enough. Hydrogen from excess wind or solar stored in old gas wells means you can have months of grid level storage for a low capital cost.


    Having excess renewable generating capacity means you can get 100% power even when you aren't getting 100% wind. Turbines and solar can be cheaper than storage or peaking plant.

    Having turbines out at sea instad of on land means they get some wind most of the time. They cost more but you need storage less of the time. Spreading them geographically means they can get the same weather front at different times or different weather fronts at the same time. Again the trade off is more turbines for less storage.



    Off shore work is getting cheaper with technology and lessons learnt. Since 2017 the cost of decommissioning oil rigs has fallen by a quarter

    In the next two years, the sector expects to decommission more than 600 wells and 1,800 km (1,120 miles) of pipelines.

    Almost 60 installations - known as topsides - are also expected to be removed.


    And costs of tidal energy is dropping - it's predictable years in advance. Not the cheapest but it reduces the need for storage. The times of the tides along our south and east coasts vary a lot too. Northern Ireland is part of the Single Energy Market and has good tide races opposite Scotland.

    The cost of generating power from tidal streams has fallen by 40% since 2018 – and a report published last month by a government-backed research centre, Offshore Marine Catapult, forecasts prices could fall below nuclear energy in little over a decade, with one-megawatt hour of power due to cost as little as £78 by 2035 compared with £92.50 for the new Hinkley Point C power plant. ... “We are learning by doing: it used to take two days to connect up devices in the water but now it takes just two hours,”




  • Registered Users Posts: 15,126 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    I get where you are coming from. I have been on this forum for nearly 9 years and I have yet to put anyone on ignore, but I must admit on this thread their have been one or two I have been solely tempted too. The reason I haven`t is that there is an ever increasing usage of social media to spread lies, half truths and dis-information by some to promote their agendas. We have seen what that has resulted in in the U.S. and even next door with Brexit and the possible knock on effect for Ireland.

    I know it is annoying when you have somebody on ignore and you still end up seeing their nonsense when another poster replies to it, and while it may seem a complete waste of time and energy replying to such posters I believe it is dangerous to allow them free rein attempting to influence others witout them being challenged when doing so shows they do not have a clue as to what they are spouting about and just run away when challenged. ?Cee?view I see has expressed much the same sentiment in his reply, and like that poster, having found your posts both informative and educational I alsohope you will just skip over anything in relation to posters you have on ignore and reconsider remaining on this thread.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,321 ✭✭✭arctictree


    Every couple of years BNM have a press release about a new line of business they are getting into. Last time it was retrofitting homes, now it's wind energy.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Well they had to find something to do seeing as the peat power plants all shutdown and they stopped making briquettes



  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 91,621 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    I saw one of their skips at the weekend in Dublin https://www.bnmrecycling.ie/

    They have oodles of land that can't be used for peat so wind and solar means it can still continue to produce energy.



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,126 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    From the Bog of Allen to the high rolling seas is some career change.

    If they thought a bog could be a bit "springy" they are in for a shock when they try just standing on the deck of a boat.

    You will be able to get the smell from a mile away, and it won`t be from a fossil fuel. I would not like to be on the clean-up crew on that job but if it progresses at the same pace as their retrofitting they will have plenty of time to find their sea-legs. 😁



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,607 ✭✭✭ps200306


    The previous test drillings & surveys going back to the early 1980's/late 70's when resources were first detected there. That nobody could make a viable commercial venture out of it since then says it all really. But hey, maybe this time it'll be different.

    That makes about as much sense as comparing a mechanical adding machine to a modern datacentre. Without being rude, how much do you know about modern drilling?

    Before the renaming they detailed it all on their site in an easy to find spot, but they've since rejigged things under the new naming so a lot of info is gone off the site or relocated, but you're welcome to have a trawl through whats there.

    Sounds a bit conspiratorial. Anyway, no need, I'm very familiar with the material.

    I did a quick scan of the site and here's a reference to a test in 2012 as well as a presentation on data collected over the years here and slide 7 of the 2020 investor pack shows data on previous tests. The 2016 AGM presentation also provides info on test results.

    Taking them in turn:

    • First one is a one-sentence reference to the highly successful 48/24-10z appraisal well. Hardly the "poor results" you referred to?
    • The only new data in number two is the 2017 reprocessing of 3D seismic showing the absence of faulting, which had been a previous concern about field connectivity. Unalloyed good news.
    • Number three shows that every one of the six previous drills contacted hydrocarbons, that there are four vertically stacked reservoir systems, that the basal Wealden sands are areally extensive, and that there is even greater prospectivity in a yet-untested Jurassic interval. Looks fantastic.
    • Number four is just a rehash of what we already knew about the 2012 test. 3500 BOPD from a single 7 metre vertical interval. Pretty amazing. You realise it's a cinch nowadays to drill a couple of kilometres horizontally through that? Also mentions the 0.4 Tcf of gas in the OPL1 area which, thanks to Ryan and his minions will probably never get drilled as that option belonged to KEL and presumably won't be offered to anyone else.

    All of which begs the question: if this is your supposed evidence of "poor results", do you actually know what you're talking about?

    I wonder was the renaming of the company Goodman's idea, to try and disassociate it from the sh!tsh0w that was Providence Resources which has had several farm out agreements with APEX & Spot On collapse after they walked away. In the case of APEC, they just stopped replying to the lads in PR, I honestly lol'ed so much when I read that in the paper, its like they just listed the Providence Resource emails as spam lolol.

    You're right. The previous farm outs under O'Reilly were fiascos. He never had the managerial nous to court sensible partners. APEC was an out-and-out scam, like many Chinese investment ventures. Spot On was a two-man amateur-hour show registered by a lawyer in Edinburgh. You forgot to mention the previous dodgy outfit -- Sequa/Sapinda.

    Here's the real cracker though, which I'm sure you of all people will appreciate. The serially unsuccessful O'Reilly and his technical director O'Sullivan are now at the helm of dCarbonX -- the company that ESB are pinning all their hopes on for the development of the glorious new hydrogen infrastructure you've been banging on about. You couldn't make it up! A guy whose only experience of solar energy is developing a deep permatan at his Maltese tax haven hideout. Long-suffering Providence shareholders used to call him "the Bronze". Yep, Mr. SnakeOil is your problem now. 🤣

    "Heat stroke on a Maltese beach can really mess with your urine!"


    Anyway, back to the main point. You referred to "results which have been consistently showing that while there is oil and gas there, it can't be extracted in a profitable way". Nothing you posted remotely suggests that. In fact, since your links are all to company materials, it's hardly likely they would post anything like that even it was true, now is it? You could have mentioned some actual technical challenges such as the waxiness of the Barryroe crude and high pour point which require special handling (though not particularly problematic). The fact of the matter is that Barryroe is breakeven at an oil price of $26/bbl, something we're pretty unlikely to ever see again. Even if the huge overall field volumes turned out to be an overestimate, a couple of horizontal producers in the well-proven east flank would be a license to print money.

    Post edited by ps200306 on


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,848 ✭✭✭?Cee?view


    Drop the mic! Brilliant!!

    Seriously, very interesting and informative. Thank you.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,991 ✭✭✭spaceHopper


    Most people charge their cars at home or at work and not using on street charging, is it really that big a deal?



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,732 ✭✭✭ginger22


    Its like Star Trek, They are "boldly going where no man went before".



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    And yet the fact remains that it sits undeveloped, for nearly 50 years

    If the breakeven were so low it would make it the best oil prospect in the world lol and yet it remains undeveloped.

    The figure of $26 is also hilariously incorrect as it would mean a VASTLY lower breakeven than Kuwaiti, Qatari, Saudi oil, which have the lowest breakeven in the range of $60-75.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,607 ✭✭✭ps200306


    You're some tulip. Those are the fiscal breakeven costs for the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia. That is, the oil price they need to balance their national budget in an economy that depends on government largesse. Oil extraction costs in KSA are between $5 and $10 per barrel, the lowest in the world.

    So I guess you just fired out a scattergun blast of links in your last post, thinking nobody would be any the wiser?

    Anyway, I don't wish to rub it in nor to distract from events of the past 48 hours which you may want to check out. Larry Goodman just stumped up funding for the entire programme of appraisal drilling at Barryroe, leaving Ryan with little room for manoeuvre in stalling on the grant of a petroleum lease. No doubt the Greenies will be spitting in their cornflakes at the idea that Ireland's filthy capitalist billionaire beef baron is about to become its foremost oil baron too. But them's the breaks.




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