Is a Plateau Inevitable?

24-11-2022 8:37pm #1

I've been training for the past 3-4 months or so, having very limited fitness routines in the past.

As such, I was effectively starting from scratch. Hired a PT to keep discipline and ensure I don't fall back into bad habits.

Things have progressed, for sure. I was starting doing dumbbell rows with 5-10kg, and now I'm up to about 22.5kg comfortably. I've completely plateaued with the bench press, and I'm not sure why. Each time the total weight, from the bar and weights, goes to about 50-60kg, I struggle with it. This has been pretty consistent over the past number of weeks even though I've advanced with weight in most other exercises.

So I'm starting to wonder if a plateau is inevitable?

I'm not intending to become some muscled up God, but somewhat pretty fit and lean.

So should I be disappointed when / if a plateau occurs, or should I consider it part and parcel of what I hope to achieve?

It's hard to know where to draw the line.

Cill94 · 25-11-2022 12:29am

Plateaus are inevitable and just a part of the lifting game. The stronger you get, the more time between hitting PRs. It's also normal for upper body lifts like the bench to stall before squats or deads.

That being said, you're still definitely in the beginner stage so you should be able to make at least small progress most sessions (this can be reps and/or sets, not just weight).

From my experience, you probably have just reached a stage where you need to start gaining more muscle. So, eat more food basically, particularly protein. I would do this in tandem with building a bigger base of general strength in the 40-50kg range for sets of 6-12.

25-11-2022 10:42am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119918459#Comment_119918459

Does the food actually matter though?

Or is it a case that if the body gets 3,000 or 4,000 calories a day, that's all that matters?

I mean, my diet hasn't been exactly amazing since I started training, yet I'm still making pretty good progress compared to when I started. A long way to go of course, but certainly on the right track.

I know I see a lot about specifics of dieting but from my limited experience, it seems that as long as the body gets calories from something, then that's what makes the difference.

But sure, I'll definitely increase the protein levels for sure along with your strength suggestions.

Cill94 · 25-11-2022 3:04pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119919313#Comment_119919313

Calories are important, but of course where they come from matters too. Minimum protein requirements for strength training are about 1.5g per kg of bodyweight. So if you're 80kg and you're not at least eating 120g per day, you're probably leaving shortchanging yourself and making it less likely that weight gained will be muscle.

The other thing to look at is the programme. The way the training stress is distributed should have a mix of heavy and medium load days, and most of your sets should leave a few reps in the tank. For example if you're just trying to do a new 5RM record every time you bench, that's never going to work, regardless of how well you eat and sleep.

Black Sheep · 25-11-2022 9:13pm

I think there are situations where someone has tapped out their genetic potential and their plateau is more or less permanent, they've hit a kind of ceiling that's very real and it might take a lifestyle change or other really herculean effort to break through, to the point that it's not really worth it.

But to be honest if you are a novice lifter and you think your bench work sets are going to stall at or around 60kg or just above it, I wouldn't say that you are likely in the above category yet, there's probably a more mundane explanation.

Without knowing your age, sex and bodyweight it's difficult to be definitive, but as a rule of thumb I would expect a novice who is benching (for example twice a week) to probably be benching bodyweight before they run into problems and have to start looking at changing their programming or identifying another reason their progression is floundering.

Cilian has mentioned diet and protein intake, I do think it's an important factor to consider. When people get stuck as novices on a compound lift then it's brought up a lot because it's a common issue. People say they are eating to support the strength progression they're attempting in the gym, but when you look at it in detail sometimes the compliance is not what they themselves even realise.

If you've been progressing fine to this point then that's not necessarily a vindication of your diet, you may have been able to increase the weights you're lifting moreso because you're having neurological adaptation as a novice lifter, you're getting better at the skill of the lifts, managing the bar path etc.

What's your current programming like?

25-11-2022 9:27pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119921896#Comment_119921896

So I'm training three times a week; Monday, Wednesday, Friday.

Basically, it's a combination of the same kind of exercises; with a balance of exercises on shoulders, arms, chest, legs, and some core work. A few peripheral extras too. It's not the same exercises all the time, but variations of them. Mostly dumbbell-based and bar-based exercises; and some bar-based ones for the legs, too (not sure of the name of it).

Today, I maxed out at 60kg bench press again (I'm 90kg, and in my early thirties). It's very frustrating, as I want to do more, but I experience this extreme fatigue. I start out low, perhaps around 35kg with the bar, and then progress upwards. Once it goes to 60kg level, I just cannot lift it - complete and total exhaustion; need the spotter to lift it back up for me. Of course, when I started with bench press, I found even benching the bar itself to be hard. That's how low-level I was.

For dumbbell flies on the bench, I started out at 5-10kg, now I'm at 15-17.5kg each arm.

For dumbbell rows, I started out around the same, now at 17.5 - 22.5kg each arm.

For shoulder press with dumb bells, I'm now up to 15 - 17kg each arm. Again, started at 5-10kg.

I can absolutely see physical differences since I started, so I'm encouraged by that. Just wondering where I go from here.

Black Sheep · 25-11-2022 10:13pm

Your weight progression on the dumbbell flyes and overhead press sounds more like what we'd expect, and kind of suggests there's no fundamental reason you can't bring your bench along to where it should be.

You've given us a bit of info about how you're training but not really enough specifics to offer definitive comment. But as you've said you're unsure what to do next anyway, can I suggest you consider just moving onto a really proven, classic program, and follow that for several months.

Beginner Strength Programmes — boards.ie - Now Ye're Talkin'

Although this thread says it's for beginners, the programmes involved would also work well for anyone looking for a back to basics approach, or if they have been out of training or don't have a few years under their belt.

If you were to pick one of these programs, drop your bench weight back to 30kg and just go from scratch, add weight when the program calls for it, and see where you go with it.

25-11-2022 10:20pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119922377#Comment_119922377

Sounds good thanks, I'll review that link.

Do you believe that, generally speaking, someone who hasn't exercised at all should still bench press their body weight - or thereabouts - in the initial phases of training?

Black Sheep · 25-11-2022 10:31pm

I think if you took untrained people off the street and tested their bench you'd probably find a minority who did manual jobs might be able to bench bodyweight or close to it off the bat, but I think it would be more common these days that people would struggle, yes.

But I do think that benching bodyweight is quite achievable for men in their 20s and 30s if following a strength program like the ones linked to, and not self sabotaging. I don't want to put a timeframe on it but I'm going to say within the year anyway, maybe less.

The pace of weight progression on a program like Starting Strength or Greyskull (In the thread linked to) would get you there sooner. Most people doing those programmes tend to stall on their overhead press or squat before their bench.

25-11-2022 10:35pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119922524#Comment_119922524

Interesting to hear, thanks for that.

I'll definitely reorient my training based on this.

Just one other thing I'd like to add. Given the propensity of social media, I've noticed many super-fit guys talk about how "the right" way of doing certain exercises. They're all super fit, yet apparently us little people (or at least me), have to decide who is right? It seems weird, because they are all really fit. So who is right?

Perhaps them all?

Is it narcissism? They want to believe they are the best person at training?

I don't know. As a beginner, this stuff stands out.

Black Sheep · 25-11-2022 11:14pm

I don't disagree that at times it can come across like there are a lot of trainers and 'fitness influencers' coming out with very bombastic opinions and click-baity titles. I think maybe it's not just human nature but also the nature of social media and how they are making a living these days? There's not much money in uploading a tik tok video saying "Well, training is very nuanced, it will take a long time to explain why the best programme or exercise for one person may not work for another person". It's much more lucrative to upload one saying "Finally, the MOST EFFECTIVE science-based training split ever, revealed".

But on some topics, like what are good beginner programmes, we can point to a few that have stood the test of time and a large number of people report having good results on.

Cill94 · 26-11-2022 12:06am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119921970#Comment_119921970

Not exactly clear how often you're training the bench, but it should be twice per week if you're not already doing that. Also sounds like you're taking it to failure every time, which isn't a great approach. I'd definitely recommend hopping on an established programme so you can learn a proper progression model and training layout.

Just one other thing I'd like to add. Given the propensity of social media, I've noticed many super-fit guys talk about how "the right" way of doing certain exercises. They're all super fit, yet apparently us little people (or at least me), have to decide who is right? It seems weird, because they are all really fit. So who is right? Perhaps them all?

Genuinely feel your frustration here, as a former confused beginner. The internet is both the best and worst thing that ever happened for beginners. All the information you could need but no way of determining what's correct.

Obviously they can't all be right, as many are directly contradicting each other with their silly takes.

I'd say be very wary of assuming people know what they're talking about just based on appearance. How shredded someone is, or how many followers they have, is a pretty poor indicator of quality info. These guys are salesmen, not coaches. They care more about you buying their sh*t than seeing you succeed, and when you're around long enough you see dozen of these bozos come and go.

And so this would lead me to echoing what Black Sheep said about looking to established names and programmes from them. As the saying goes: 'you can only screw someone once'. Coaches like Rippetoe, Wendler, DeFranco, the Juggernaut guys, EliteFTS etc. have been putting out content for beginners for a long time and have maintained their reputation for a reason.

26-11-2022 12:16pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119923328#Comment_119923328

Typically twice a week, Monday and Friday. Some weeks it has been once on the bench-press, and then doing dumbbell versions on the other two days.

As for taking to failure, yep, that's pretty much what I try to do all the time.

I get the impression if you're going to train, better to max out the hour rather than have it simple. That said, it seems this may be an inappropriate approach based on what you've just said.

Cill94 · 27-11-2022 1:26pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119924320#Comment_119924320

I get where you're coning from with wanting to get as much out of the session as possible, but the problem with training to failure regularly is it creates a disproportionate amount of fatigue and so, as you've noticed, makes it quite difficult to progress from week to week.

If you check out any of those popular programmes, you'll notice they all primarily utilise sub-maximal training, with small increases week to week, so that you have time to recover.

If you just think about it logically, the approach of adding even 2.5kg to an all out set every session could never work. You'd be 100kg extra in less than a year if that worked.

Is a Plateau Inevitable?

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