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Russia - threadbanned users in OP

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  • Registered Users Posts: 20,053 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    This is why I get very annoyed by Biden and Boris and the EU, because all of them spout platitudes about supporting Ukraine to the hilt but then actually don't. I am very grateful for what assistance they are giving, have no doubt, but ask yourself why was Poland supplied with the Patriot missile system by the Us and the UK sent probably the worlds most capable and sophisticated medium range air defence system - Sky Sabre - to, you guessed it; Poland.

    Poland’s government says an anti-missile system which Germany offered to send to Poland should instead go to Ukraine, a proposal that is a likely non-starter for Berlin because it would significantly ratchet up NATO involvement in Ukraine.

    This ratchet up nonsense has to stop. Germany just supplied Ukraine with the IRIS-T air defence missile system, for which Ukraine is no doubt very grateful for, but just stop with the BS excuses.

    WARSAW, Poland — Polish Defence Minister Mariusz Błaszczak has signed a deal under which the country’s military will get a short-range, air-defense system using MBDA’s Common Anti-air Modular Missile, or CAMM, this year.

    With Russia’s invasion of neighboring Ukraine continuing to stir Poland’s defense posture, Warsaw decided to accelerate the procurement.

    This is fine, Poland are buying it, but they aren't without electricity and under constant bombardment by missiles. I am not forgetting they have done so much, but the situation in Ukraine is getting dire, while the lights and heating in Poland are fine.

    UK to deploy Sky Sabre air defence system to Poland 17th March 2022

    Hey Boris; they don't need it, but Ukraine does. They extended this loan back in October. AFAIK there are only three of these systems in existence - 2 in the Uk and this one lent to Poland. It's better than Israel's Iron Dome system and actually incorporates a good chunk of the software used in Iron Dome.

    I hope this isn't yet another instance of Israel having a veto on what the UK can do with what is mostly their system, just because it uses some of their tech. It wouldn't surprise me, though I haven't seen any public statements on the matter. If their were any investigative reporters left in the Uk not camping outside Meghan Markle's residence, perhaps they could ask the Defence Secretary a probing question or two as to whether the Uk has sovereignty over it's own defence resources, or have they sold that to Israel?

    Germany were kind enough to send Ukraine multiple, very useful mobile Gepard air defence systems to Ukraine, but they are constantly running out of ammunition for it because the Swiss are another shi​​t-hole 'neutral' country and happen to be the ones who make the ammunition for it, and have blocked countries that have huge stockpiles of ammo from sending any to Ukraine. Meanwhile the shunts are very happy to break the sanctions with Iran and have never stopped trading with them.

    Analysis of downed Iranian drones have shown that all their most important components come from the US and the west in general.

    The US government has ordered a probe after Western, Japanese, and Israeli components were found in downed Iranian drones in Ukraine, The Wall Street Journal reported.

    Citing intelligence documents, the outlet estimated that three-quarters of the components were found to be American-made, despite Tehran being subjected to harsh sanctions.

    The aim of the sanctions is largely to prevent the country from developing nuclear weapons but includes other arms development such as drones.

    I may be jumping to conclusions, but after just reading an eye opening piece on how Switzerland profits from it's 'neutrality' by trading with sanctioned regimes without seeming to cop much criticism or flack as it does so very quietly, it wouldn't surprise me in the slightest to find some Swiss companies acting as buying agents for Iranian drone components.



  • Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    Absolutely yes,

    Would you blame them ,face death if they run away,or stay and face certain death at the hands of the Ukrainans or weather



  • Registered Users Posts: 20,053 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    The SBU found more than UAH 8 million in cash from an official of the Lviv City Council and her accomplices, who are suspected of illegally transporting conscripts abroad


    The organizer of the scheme is the head of one of the district departments of social protection of the department of humanitarian policy of the Lviv City Council, and her accomplices were employees of a medical institution.

    I guess corruption in Ukraine might be less going forward, than it has been in the past. A much needed cash injection for the war effort. Bertie would probably be looking at that lot and drooling uncontrolably and wondering does he know anyone who he could hit up for brown paper bags in bulk, but his memory...



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,616 ✭✭✭Field east


    I’m caught between Joe Duffy and himself as to which I enjoy the most - for light entertainment. On a serious note , he is another arm of the Ru state with regards to informing the Ru citizens as to what’s going on. If he was not toeing the line he would have been removed long ago



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,062 ✭✭✭Hobgoblin11


    NATO Secretary General: The alliance does not have instructors on the ground in Ukraine


    Dundalk, Co. Louth



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  • Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling




  • Registered Users Posts: 20,053 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    I marked my video with a warning and got told to not to emebed it, and as I said, it was mostly about a living breathing person who was wounded and only a body or two at the very end. Good thing I didn't post the one of a kadyrover having a touriquet applied and where one of his colleagues is holding his hand, passes it to another who tosses it away.



  • Registered Users Posts: 40,148 ✭✭✭✭Boggles




  • Registered Users Posts: 20,053 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    The US does have personnel on the ground accounting for all the weapons to ensure none are going astray.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,225 ✭✭✭✭Furze99


    Swiss need the heat turned on them bigtime. Just hope for their sakes that they're not looking for help in the future.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 7,054 ✭✭✭timmyntc


    Why should the Swiss be punished for their neutrality?



  • Registered Users Posts: 20,053 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    You don't have to payout to the family for somone who's still alive, so almost none of the conscripts have died.

    Putin's meeting with mothers of soldiers turns out to be farce: women were selected from among staff of Russian-aligned governmental bodies

    https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2022/11/25/7377962/



  • Registered Users Posts: 20,053 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    Who's punishing them? They get incredible benefits from the EU and other countries, without complying with the obligations other countries sign up for to get the same benefits. These benefits they don't pay for just need to be withdrawn. It's not punisment to withold something from those who haven't paid.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,054 ✭✭✭timmyntc


    They get incredible benefits from the EU and other countries, without complying with the obligations other countries sign up for to get the same benefits.

    What benefits do the Swiss get without complying with their obligations?

    Basically you think they should get less than the status quo, as a result of their neutrality. Thats looking to punish them for their neutral stance. Dress it up as you like. "It's not punishment to withhold something from those who haven't paid" - what are they getting that they havent paid for?



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,616 ✭✭✭Field east


    Technically,If you are a neutral country and do not go to help out eg a neighbouring country then why would you expect that neighbour to come to your help if you are attacked. Is it not as clear as the nose on your face?

    Countries make all kinds of arrangements between themselves re trade, , cultural and social arrangements, visas, tax arrangements, extradition, finance , etc.

    one such arrangement is the NATO arrangement between NATO members and if Switzerland want to ‘go it alone’ well so be it. Of course some near/far neighbours meh help out but it would be on the basis of showing ‘good ‘ will



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    The Swiss make what are called cohesion payments as part of their treaty obligations with the EU. The latest payment was CHF 1.1 billion. So your not paying theory doesn’t hold water.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,042 ✭✭✭rogber


    Wasn't Rush Limbaugh similar? Crazy shock jock who ended up getting a medal when a sufficiently crazy president was in power. If the government consists of psychos and nutters, political commentators of that ilk also gain prominence



  • Registered Users Posts: 20,053 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    Read the article I linked to by a Swiss journalist.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,225 ✭✭✭✭Furze99


    Why do the Swiss have an armaments industry Timmy, if they are so bound into neutrality??

    They do have an armaments industry and they have a banking industry. A banking industry that might be upset if some of their customers are discommoded. The Swiss are conflicted and hypocrites of a high order.

    Whatever happens, all EU states and likeminded should cancel forthwith any purchases of military supplies of any description from Switzerland. They need to be hit in the pocket as seemingly that's what they understand.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,048 ✭✭✭BKtje


    I am not sure if Germany, Italy, or France (mainland) were attacked that Switzerland would remain neutral though this is just my opinion. Too many people in Switzerland have roots/links in these countries and the front line would be very close to their borders.

    Regarding NATO help, is that similar to our situation then? Should NATO defend Ireland if it were attacked? At least Switzerland spends quite a large amount on their armed forces including the purchase of F35s to defend their airspace to defend their neutrality. All Swiss males still have mandatory military service (though many are exempt).

    I don't agree with the stance that the Swiss have taken with regards the munitions and I hope it changes in the future, but I can understand where it comes from.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    I remember 9 years ago families were being told sons and fathers had been deployed on classified missions for a number of years over Seas to protect Russia, even though they were killed in dobas ,at the same time they classified military deaths overseas as top secret and banned the press from reporting deaths



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,159 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    Swiss big business interests are pricks and have always been pricks. They were the same in WW2, supplying whoever could pay, even doing middleman currency exchange for the nazis(remembe back then no euro os if "special trains" had to go from Greece to Poland they'd have to pay fees in each currency they passed through). It's all about the money. They care for little else. Though I was surprised when they closed their airspace to Russian aircraft. When the Swiss think you're both bad for business and a pariah, that's not a good look. It did tell me that even early on Russia's goose was cooked, or being slowly boiled anyway.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,159 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    We have some moaning that Ireland isn't really neutral and we should give up on that claim, well on that basis the only thing "neutral" for Switzerland is the colour of money in their bank vaults.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



  • Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    Not just any arms industry,they have been in the top 5 largest arms exporters for the 5 or 6 decades,

    We can't even develop our own military vehicles without someone rants and raveing about our neutrality



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,159 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    And lest we forget a fair number do actually believe they're fighting "nazis" for Russia, putin and god. There are similar videos of Ukrainians being hit by Russians on their channels, but it's a lot fewer from what I can tell. Quite a few very short vids of explosions and then cut. No follow ups. We saw some of that from both sides early on in the war particularly on tank hits, where the full vid usually shows the same tank continuing on. When I see vids like that from Russian sources I think hmmmmm, why you cut short Sergei?

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,776 ✭✭✭zv2


    “Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities.” — Voltaire



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Total value of Swiss armament exports in 2020 was CHF 901 million. Thats 0.7% of the worldwide expenditure for that year. In other words a drop in the ocean.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,054 ✭✭✭timmyntc


    Where have the Swiss ever demanded that they are backed up in case of an invasion? Why would they help Ukraine - in what scenario would Ukraine ever be in a position to help the Swiss?

    You answered the question already - arms is an industry, a business. Sure what does it matter who or what you sell to so long as it doesnt put your own security at risk. The Swiss do not sell arms to active combatants - thats where their neutrality kicks in over business interests. And strategically it makes perfect sense.

    As for EU states deciding to boycott swiss military products, lol. They do not buy from switzerland as a favour to a mate - they buy because the arms are either cost effective or good quality or some combination of the two. They are not state subsidies from one nation to another as a favour for friends.



  • Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    Yeah I've noticed it too ,

    Seems some pro russian sources are rebranding videos showing Ukrainian strikes against the Russians ,as Russian forces defeating the Ukrainans,

    Even look at the quite a few NASAMS hitting apartments blocks in Ukraine based off a post from a pro russian account showing damage to Ukrainan buildings after cruise missile strikes, but the amount of accounts who tweeted and retweeted the same information was in the thousands,

    We won't be seeing as much vehicles hits through winter due to losses and the number of vehicles abandoned in the various retreats



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  • Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling




This discussion has been closed.
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