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You've been looking in the wrong direction, the dangers are coming from the right.

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,993 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    And here it is.

    But meanwhile Fuentes and others like him can tell their network that the likely Republican candidate met with him and listened to him but of course can't say that publicly because of the Main Stream Media, and the LEFT and whatever.

    Well, it worked for Marjorie Taylor Greene...



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,993 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how




  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I'm perfectly happy to answer your question, which you have asked multiple times now.

    But only if you have the respect to answer my question - namely, do you believe that it would be acceptable for burlesque shows or for burlesque performers to perform in front of young children (not as independent adults but as burlesque dancers), even if those shows were not sexually explicit?

    I'm clear: that's wrong.

    Yet your position is abundantly opaque.

    That's worrying.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,606 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,993 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how




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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,273 ✭✭✭xxxxxxl


    Pantomime dames are not drag. Drag as explained is inherent to the LGBT scene in clubs. They are not comparable at all. It's apples and oranages like comparing page 3 to a hardcore adult Pornstar.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,993 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    A couple of people on this thread have suggested that it is more likely that the attacker on Club Q acted as he did because he had been a visitor there and had been turned away, or here now, that he acted a s a consequence of a lovers tiff.

    They think this is more likely than him having been influenced by his MAGA and pro-2nd amendment advocate grandfather, or his rabidly homophobic and staunch conservative father.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,183 ✭✭✭patnor1011


    His dad is not the one who pulled the trigger or is he?

    The shooter, is he (them/they) nonbinary transgender person or is he (them/they) not?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,993 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    Link please to an event you are aware of that was organised to showcase these heinous acts (whatever they are) to kids.

    Do you believe this is a bigger problem than the child beauty pageant circuit?



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    You have now admitted being in favour of both burlesque dancers and drag artists performing, in some form, in front of vulnerable children.

    Most people know that both forms of dancing are sexually oriented. Indeed, that's why these performances exist in the first place.

    Yet you want young and vulnerable children, perhaps as young as 6-9 years old, exposed to both of these performances - even if diluted.

    What an absolute disgrace.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,993 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    This is about the likely motivating factor of the attacker.

    Can you grasp that, and comment on it?



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,273 ✭✭✭xxxxxxl


    I think I already said Pageants are a creepy American thing.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,183 ✭✭✭patnor1011


    Do you want me to explain it to you or you will read post to which I replied and then reread my reply?



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,273 ✭✭✭xxxxxxl


    Just as lightly jilted lover or beef with club. Seems to have moved off the reporting for some reason like a few other events.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,183 ✭✭✭patnor1011


    Likely. Oh what a wonderful word.

    His father is violent criminal who spent most of his life in jail. Isn't that "more likely" motivating factor and likely explanation of his mental state?

    Now, is the shooter LGBTQ+ or he isn't?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,993 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    You're the guy who said the burlesque show was non-sexually explicit, which is what I understand any shows that drags were partaking in that they knew children were going to be at.

    So stop with now depicting it as 'sexually oriented' BS. Same as a poster on here a couple days ago who stated off talking about people in drag, and then tried to imply that what was happening was strip shows. Same sh*t you're going on with with now referring to 6-9 year olds in your comment on my answer, rather than in the question. Which doesn't change my answer btw.

    And you still didn't answer the question. Whenever you're ready please.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,993 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    Nice swerve attempt.

    Which is likely a bigger issue, in your view, beauty pageants, or whatever it is you all think is happening with drag shows? (finally giving evidence of these shows would help if someone can finally do it).



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,273 ✭✭✭xxxxxxl


    They tried a drag story hour In Dublin. Hosted I kid you not by "Glitter Hole"



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,993 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    I understand he has said he is, so I presume this is the case.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,737 ✭✭✭SafeSurfer


    When I was growing up there were ads with black minstrels for Lyons tea on television. I had a Lyons minstrel mug. I thought nothing of it or of the black face TV repeats that were still sometimes shown on TV.

    Looking back now it’s obviously cringe.

    I wonder will people who now see nothing offensive about the female stereotypes portrayed in drag cringe with embarrassment when they look back from a future perspective.

    Multo autem ad rem magis pertinet quallis tibi vide aris quam allis



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,993 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    So, is that it? A drag story hour? by a drag group? Where's the sexual explicit content the children would have been exposed to?

    But again, you've not answered the question.

    Which is the likely biggest issue shows with drag performers, or the child beauty pageant scene?



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,273 ✭✭✭xxxxxxl


    So we think "Glitter Hole" is age appropriate for kids. What next Ginger lynn reading to children. And the library pulled it not the people complaining. They obviously did no research on the group.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Are you in favour of burlesque dancers and drag artists performing to vulnerable children as young as 6-10 years old - even if that content is not explicitly sexual?

    It's not a difficult question.

    I'm against it.

    You...?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,993 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    Do you think they should?

    I expect there will be a cringe factor with the idea that females couldn't/weren't let perform in the same manner that males were and so people might cringe at the obvious regressiveness of that position.

    But do you think that implies that people will revert from being trans and those who have done so will be looked on as being cringeworthy?

    Because the minstrels, and their depiction is quite a different scenario isn't it. In most cases that was done depicting them as backward, inferior, or to be laughed or as a prop in a wider show. They were the subject of the bit.

    That has not been the case with female depicted pantomime performers now or in the past, or people in drag either.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,993 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,993 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    You said it was a drag story show.

    What has you believe the content was not going to be children age appropriate? Do you think that drag show performers are incapable of showing their individuality without being sexually explicit?



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,273 ✭✭✭xxxxxxl


    Seems so after they were pulled on further review.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,993 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    It was pulled because people like those on here complaining about such such shows freaked out before it had even been held.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,183 ✭✭✭patnor1011


    Then why do you keep mis gendering that person in every post where you try to pin on them some alt right, nazi, MAGA labels.

    Is it because it is easier to try to portray them as some angry white man with hateful agenda? Which seems to be likely quite far from the truth actually.


    This happened quite a few times. Usual suspects jumping the gun in order to push their own agenda. Facts are not relevant when emotions run high...



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,993 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    Lol.

    Now you're arguing against 'misgendering'. Well done, aren't you very progressive. Finally some progress.

    What do you mean by 'likely to be quite far from the truth'.

    My only focus on the Club Q event is that hatred against LGBT people has been, and continues to be stoked by people on the right. I can defend that position with evidence, what evidence can you offer to support yours?



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,273 ✭✭✭xxxxxxl


    Ignore all the homophobic nonsense nothing was presented. As per just remarks no actual evidence.


    “However, following a review in terms of age appropriateness, this event will not now go ahead at this time, and may be rescheduled as part of a future book festival line up.”



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,993 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    Ah yes, even though they said they receive homophobic abuse, you seem to be sure that this didn't happen. How can you be so sure?

    Also, they do say that they had performed the event 3 times before. Sure then there must be evidence of the show not being suitable? Can you provide a link to someone saying such at the time the show was held.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,273 ✭✭✭xxxxxxl


    They say a lot of things they have not linked to these other events so No idea. The library did due diligence and cancelled the event. Normally if something has substance the news article would include examples. None forthcoming So it never happened or it was interpretations on it being homophobic. Like saying a man cannot become a woman. Or saying Drag should not be exposed to children.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,183 ✭✭✭patnor1011


    I am not arguing anything. I am pointing to the simple fact that you keep mis gendering this individual even though you know them/they is LGBTQ person. It is likely that you do this on purpose. Them being LGBTQ does not suit your agenda where you try to pin blame for this shooting on some imaginary straight white man anti LGBTQ alt right conspiracy.

    From what we know it is clear that in this case you are completely wrong.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,993 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    I can assure you that I am not misgendering anyone on purpose. I do have zero respect for this individual and wouldn't be inclined to go out of my to show them any. I nothing them, not even the act of trying to undermine their desire to be identified in a particular way.

    My position is that right wing hate brings hurt and death to vulnerable people, that's it. I do think it is likely that the motivations of the shooters father which was explicit, is likely to have been a significant factor. Even if it was for the shooter to project on the group despite feeling a part of it. The evidence of the shooters hatred, their fathers viewpoints, and that they had expressed this to the shooter, is irrefutable.

    There is no evidence to say that I am wrong in this respect, or that any other instance of being jilted or turned away is what happened. Such evidence may emerge, but it hasn't to this point so you're going to have to clarify how my evidence is incorrect, but you're asbent evidence is more likely to be the case.

    And all of this aside, to state once again, my position in relation to that event is that is surrounded by right wing hatred of a particular community. You can try to twist my position in to something else if you wish, you are doing so without cause.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,273 ✭✭✭xxxxxxl


    Any extreme views can lead to violence. Not just right wing ones. You can have anti abortion one side pro other kicking lumps out of each other. You can have A guy standing on a street corner preaching the lord then some LBGT person shouting into their face. The problem is not right or left its the extreme elements. In collage for example in debates you could be given an assignment that is a anathema to you but have to argue and debate the point. Problem is the left very rarely accept there side has extreme views.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,993 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    Of course you've extremists on both sides.

    But, the extremist views on the right jnclude those that are echoed or supported by very high profile media personalities and elected officials, right up to the President of the US, or PM of the UK etc.

    And they are specifically entrenched in hate.

    You can both sides this in terms of message, messenger and impact.

    Look at the US again, extremist politicians on the right are for removing access to healthcare, denigrating specific sectors of society and prioritizing the interests of corporations. Extremist politicians on the left want at cost insulin, access to Healthcare and protecting the environment.

    These are not equal elements.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,273 ✭✭✭xxxxxxl


    No the left are just as bad We have Wallace and grommet supporting king orc. Wanting Ukraine to surrender. All while ignoring LGBT problems in russia for example. Had guys up north kicking lumps out of people for a political meeting.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,993 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    Go read the OP.

    What is most negatively impacting the societies most of us live in, is right wing policy and rhetoric.

    I disagree completely with Wallace on his comments on Iran, and Russia, but to equate this with the things actually affecting people is nonsense.

    Also, we're still quite a way from Left/Right ideologies being the defining trait of people in the north so I'm not sure what point you were trying to make there.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,273 ✭✭✭xxxxxxl


    Antifa went to bash the fash From Dublin mostly. That should be seen exactly the same as right wing nutter attacking asylum seekers. Lucky our right only seem to shout stuff and not act out the old violence unlike the left kind here. Wallace is affecting people he has a vote and choses to not support actions against russia. Exactly like the suggestion religious nuts are up all the way to the old POTUS.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 80 ✭✭drivingmissdaisy


    The so called right promote

    physical fitness

    independent thought

    The left say they are the bad guys.

    The left offers sexual degeneracy

    I am veering right after many years of leaning left



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,993 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    The so called right promote

    physical fitness

    independent thought

    Is this physical fitness promotion best exemplified with Tucker Carlson radiating his balls? or Ronny Jackson saying Trump has the energy of a 16 year old?, or Alex Jones hawking imagination pills or whatever they are?

    And with respect to independent thought, do you think that is evident in their anti-education stance and love for everyone reciting the pledge of allegiance every day or do you think wanting to govern using Christian guidelines is evidence of independent thought?


    The left say they are the bad guys.

    The left offers sexual degeneracy

    What do you mean about the left offering sexual degeneracy?

    I am veering right after many years of leaning left

    I have close to zero belief that anyone who claims to have veered to the right in recent times was ever anything close to being ideologically aligned with the Left. If they said they were when they were younger, but then changed because of 911 or whatever, then maybe. But no one who watched the behavior of right wing groups or many individuals in the lest 5-10 years and said actually, more of that please was ever left leaning imo.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,993 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    Exactly like the suggestion religious nuts are up all the way to the old POTUS.

    Nonsense. Wallace is one vote out of 705 MEP's, Trump was the literal President of the United States.

    Here he is praying with people from various religious organizations.

    And here's one of those people, his one time spiritual advisor, Paula Michelle White-Cain praying for his victory after the 2020 election...

    Pity that for all their claims about reverence of the bible, no one of them seem to have taken Jesus' warning of being wary of false prophets in to account.

    Edit to add: Watching that again, it's just so bizarre that she is calling angels from Africa and South America to come to America to give Trump his victory, when he was so publicly against people from such locations travelling to the US. Absolutely mental stuff.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,993 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    I posted about this story already, but this image is worth including.

    Note, the Tory government refused to give even cost of living pay rises which are now going to go on strike, and when they do, they will point the finger of blame at them for missed appointments and delayed surgery. They awarded the nurses during the pandemic with a few seconds of applause on the door step and meanwhile this was what they were doing for their friends.

    Of course, even this pails in to insignificance when compared to the theft of public money that the track and trace fiasco was, but how often do you see that discussed in the media today?



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    It seems you'll blame the right no matter who commits the crime.

    In this case the person who committed the mass murder at the Q Club is a trans non-binary person.

    "Nothing" them all you wish, you cannot erase this fact.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,177 ✭✭✭Fandymo


    Drag Story Hour, Drag Shows for Kids, celebration of drag kids and so on, Mermaids and other institutions which are now thankfully being investigated more.

    It’s all there to see.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    A trustee for Mermaids was found have paedophile-group links. Mermaids itself is being investigated for a total lack of safeguarding for children. Financial backing has been withdrawn from the organization. Over 1,000 families are suing the Tavistock clinic over a similar lack of safeguarding.

    On the other point, you'd have to wonder why some people seem absolutely desperate for these drag shows for vulnerable kids to take place?

    What is the motive, so strong, that these events need to take place?

    Put another way:

    Why would some adults demand that adult entertainment providers read stories to children?

    There's something very sinister about the whole thing.

    "The dangers are coming from the right", says the thread title, yet what we are seeing in the real world is the exact opposite.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,177 ✭✭✭Fandymo


    No, YOU are intentionally muddying the waters. Panto isn’t, and wasn’t, ever drag.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,841 ✭✭✭TomTomTim


    I have close to zero belief that anyone who claims to have veered to the right in recent times was ever anything close to being ideologically aligned with the Left.

    Absolute pig headed nonsense. You simply refuse to accept that anyone could be put off by modern leftism, an ideology that barely resembles historical leftism, simply because it suits you. Your whole theory relies on the the most obvious of mistruths, that the left hasn't changed at all, so why would people leave the left.

    Outside of Marxists who've always been fans of authoritarianism, there was once large amounts of the left that believed in things like freedom and liberty, things that are considered radical and dangerous by the new wave that's taken over the left.

    “The man who lies to himself can be more easily offended than anyone else. You know it is sometimes very pleasant to take offense, isn't it? A man may know that nobody has insulted him, but that he has invented the insult for himself, has lied and exaggerated to make it picturesque, has caught at a word and made a mountain out of a molehill--he knows that himself, yet he will be the first to take offense, and will revel in his resentment till he feels great pleasure in it.”- ― Fyodor Dostoevsky, The Brothers Karamazov




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,503 ✭✭✭✭Mad_maxx


    Christopher Hitchens went to his grave ,declaring himself a “ man of the left “ , he would not only not recognise the left today but would have his card marked as a preacher of hate by the WOKE



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