Brexit discussion thread XIV (Please read OP before posting)

The 20th Century Wars fought on the continent largely detonated the old class system and Aristocracy, which was as prevalent across modern day Germany, Austria, Italy, Poland, Russia, Netherlands, Denmark, Greece etc, as it was in Britain.

But it didn't end in Britain. Britain wasn't destroyed in the way mainland Europe was. The Ascendancy became stronger, more defined, more exclusive, more punching down. The very existence of the House of Lords in the 21st Century, is an aberration.

When you look at the word, 'conservative', it literally means 'an agent of protection of something of importance, from harm or destruction'.

Not all the Brexit backers were Tories, but make no mistake, all were conservatives with a small 'c', trying to preserve a status quo, for them, to which the EU and all of its major member states are anathema.

Until ordinary working Brits realise that they have been set up as the cannon fodder in this crusade, then nothing will change.

But when they do realise, and organise, then God help the Arron Banks and Richard Tices and Nigel Farages and ERGs of the piece.

Perhaps the coordination of strike action across the sectoral Unions, leading inevitably to a general strike, is that organising beginning.

Fintan O'Toole did a good job trying to psychoanalyse Brexit and Britain in his 2018 book.

I thought this line was brilliant : "Britain’s deep problems of class and geographic division, increasing social squalor and rising inequality, cannot be its [own] fault. It has an excuse for everything and responsibility for nothing.” (i.e the world's biggest former colonial power trying to reinvent itself as an oppressed and subjugated victim of the EU.....total basket case stuff).

The DUP, who we all know are a pack of backward, inward looking no merchants, actually did cop that being in the SM and CU was beneficial to NI. Poots, the then agricultural minister tried to ensure that agriculture could continue as is under the NIP instead of aligning with the rest of the UK

Unionist politician tried to dilute UK bill aimed at Northern Ireland protocol 

WHo lasted longer in office, Truss or Poots? I guess Truss. Nice politics there.

I feel like everyone is misunderstanding me.

I'm not wondering how Danish Crown are going to bypass some sort of regulation. I'm wondering why are they even talking about regulation importing INTO the Uk as an issue when the UK has openly admitted they dont check because they cant put any border checks together before 2023.

Unless I've misunderstood and the manchester hub they are building is for them exporting british pork to europe? But he specified in the quote importing into the UK is causing the red tape and I am wondering where that red tape is coming from.

But back in april the report was that the UK was not doing checks on fresh food and "The cliff-edge approach left exporters of fish and other fresh food in chaos with a lack of customs agents and veterinary staff to certify whether the produce complied with EU standards. But in the UK post-Brexit checks on fresh food were not implemented for imports, being pushed back in 2020 and on two occasions in 2021."

also "The controls which have been scrapped include controls over the import of chilled meats from the EU, safety and security declarations, and checks on plant and animal products."

https://www.lbc.co.uk/politics/brexit-border-checks-abandoned-jacob-rees-mogg-cost-1bn/

So I'm slightly confused where the red tape is that has forced Danish Crown to move to the UK? I would have thought the more likely explanation was Danish Crown was going to focus on taking over the domestic market and not import or export anything, considering most small to medium sized farmers have been hurting badly and the UK eats a lot of bacon, a much larger company coming in and basically dominating the market makes sense.

eu japan vs uk japan deal. in short looks like truss is lucky she has already quit as pm . uk exporting less in 2021 eu more .

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/nov/26/brexit-britain-japan-trade-deal-exports-slump

https://blogs.sussex.ac.uk/uktpo/2022/08/08/what-has-happened-to-uk-japan-trade-one-year-after-signing-the-cepa-fta/

https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php?title=Japan-EU_%E2%80%93_international_trade_in_goods_statistics

They're in a terrible position in the moment in that the 'elephant in the room' that is causing a huge amount of damage to the economy cannot even be admitted or acknowledged. This is what happens when you have a pro-Brexit government and media. It has become a standalone political ideology, almost a religion in fact, that can never be denounced.

The lack of leadership is appalling. The idea of a real 'leader' is to try and create major policies for the common good and bring people along with you by saying "We believe this is the right thing to do, even it is difficult" (think of some of JFK's speeches from the early 1960s). This is how a society continues to grow and evolve. The Tory Brexit ideology appears to be to pander to the worst and most ignorant members of society - the racists, the bigots, the reactionaries etc and tell them they are right to be prejudiced....a total lack of any moral leadership.

We keep hearing from Brexiteers and the right wing press that the war in Ukraine, energy costs, Covid etc are the real cause of all the UK's problems and not Brexit, but this survey of British firms begs to differ.

Brilliant.

Right so roughly what % of the loss of exports with EU countries has been offset by increased trade with non-EU countries...?

Costa Rican bananas don't generate jobs in the UK

Link? Not to Australia or New Zealand per the articles posted here a week ago. No deal with the USA either. And at least this report (from March) says different. https://obr.uk/box/the-latest-evidence-on-the-impact-of-brexit-on-uk-trade/

Sigh.

UK exports to non-EU countries (2021 figures) have increased since 2020. But they were abnormally low in 2020 for Reasons That We All Know. This is a bit of a bouncing back, but it has little to do with Brexit. UK exports to EU countries also rose over the same period, and in fact rose at a faster rate.

Because of the Reasons That We Know, comparisons between 2020 and 2021 are, in general, not going to tell us anything very meaningful about the impacts of Brexit (which is presumably why Brexit boosters love to quote them; figures which reveal anything meaningful about the impact of Brexit are unlikely to gratify Brexit boosters).

More meaningful comparisons might look at the five years since the Brexit decision, 2016-21, and compare that with the preceding five year period, 2011-16. Here, too, exports to non-EU countries have grown in the five year period since 2016 — they are up by 13% (in GBP terms). But over the previous five-year period they were up by 20% in GBP terms, so Brexit appears, if anything, to be associated with a poorer performance in exporting to non-EU countries.

Obviously, there could be other factors at work here to explain the slowing of growth. But there is nothing in these figures to suggest that Brexit has done anything at all to boost the UK's exports to non-EU countries. And, knowing what we know about how Brexit has unfolded, this is not surprising - in what way have "Brexit freedoms" been utilised to make choices that would boost the UK's exports to non-EU countries? It's very hard to point to anything the UK has actually done that would lead us to expect any kind of boost to non-EU exports. Brexiters themselves have largely pivoted from claiming that Brexit has been beneficial to complaining that it hasn't been beneficial because it has been betrayed by the Tory party who ditched Truss.

Of course it could have. They haven't yet deviated from EU standards in any meaningful way and haven't concluded any trade deal worth a damn either.

Nice video showing the impact of all the shiny new trade deals.

This puts the deals into perspective.

https://twitter.com/iamdavidbeckett/status/1596285963948675072?t=1JjgWVxAXVlxYtO904-X-A&s=08

Good quote from the talking head: "Trade deals decay over time." So, reality is it's likely they're likely to be worth less than the current projections.

Rees-Mogg et al want to burn up all those regulations. This keeps coming up. So, with HMG in place, I'd suggest stocking up on Sodium Thiosulfate, which is used as a dechlorinator...

From one of the replies:

Shocking stuff. But hey VW is investing in its Bentley plant so it's not all bad news 😉

Shunning a single market of 450m affluent people right on your doorstep to replace it with exports to countries thousands or tens of thousands of miles away might make sense to the UKIP pensioners, but from a business point of view, it was always downright nuts.

It's obvious that none of these guys had ever exported anything in their lives.

That is to misunderstand the thought process behind Brexit. The idea was never to replace the EU, simply because the EU trade would not be impacted due to the EU needing the UK more than they need the EU.

The expected outcome of Brexit was to have all the trade positives of the RU without any of the responsibility and at the same time free to get trade deals across the globe and be free to change regulations as they see fit.

All other countries would accept that the UK knew best and would accept any trade agreement.