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"Green" policies are destroying this country

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  • Registered Users Posts: 88 ✭✭Phil McCracken


    Careful incase you fall off your high horse there Dudley . I raised the issue of fumes first and btw it’s not just NOX there’s particulate matter also which includes unburnt hydrocarbons, rubber and plastic particulates from tyres and brake dust. Water is also a byproduct of internal combustion but I wouldn’t be putting a glass under an exhaust to get a drink nor pour it into my pot plants 🪴.

    The whole the 2+2 makes 7 argument that the greens designed the cars, built the cars and somehow convinced every other western government to switch polices to focus diesels is quiet frankly LUDICROUS.

    I just had to make a post script edit to include this gem 💎 ⬇️

    @JRant said “ CO2 is also food for plants and crops,” ⚙️

    FYI crops are plants, just sayin 🤷‍♂️



  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 91,621 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    The TWh in the gas the Netherlands have stored now is about 800 years worth of 2019's global battery production. Now scale that up to Europe and there just isn't enough Lithium to compete with hydrogen or hydrogen carriers in the near term.

    Batteries = handy for fluctuations or when you need spin up the gas / hydro / steam turbines, it's not long term storage and anyone who suggests that either doesn't understand the difference or is being disingenuous.



    The same people who complain that wind farms use lots of land don't get how this would rule them out in when land is most expensive. Ditto for Nimbys , there being more of them in Dublin than elsewhere. Besides there's several 500MW offshore windfarms planned for Dublin.

    It would be interesting to see how few Compulsory Purchase Orders would be needed to add another 5GW of onshore wind.



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,993 ✭✭✭✭JRant


    The greens incentives pushed people to buy diesel, that's not up for debate. Personally, I'd like to see more cycling infrastructure built in and around Dublin city and subarbs.

    I definitely wouldn't recommend using the water vapour from exhausts on your window box lettuce plants.

    "Well, yeah, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man"



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,157 ✭✭✭Mr. teddywinkles


    Agreed theres dpm which is a pollutant in itself from diesel. Which there is built in filters for too. The thing that pisses me off with so called western governments. If it's such a emergency environmental crisis which results in such a urgent disaster. Why not upgrade all peoples possessions in western society to electric vehicles or modernise there homes without question. It's like some one bursting through your front door at home and saying the world is about to end . Pay me and I'll find ya shelter from incoming impending doom. Wtf.

    It's such horseshite. A cash cow is all it is. Even if there was impending doom these egits dont have the answers

    Post edited by Mr. teddywinkles on


  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 91,621 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    Please explain the hydrogen exports.

    Big LNG tankers can easily carry a 100,000 tonnes of LNG. You can't ship hydrogen in LNG tankers. You would need 8 million tonnes of shipping like these that can only carry 100 tonnes of hydrogen each, which also means a thousand times as many crew.


    You can't ship hydrogen in LNG tankers. The liquefaction process is very different and way more energy intensive.

    For a start you need catalysts because the ratio of ortho to para hydrogen means there's still enough energy left in the liquid to vaporise it. Imagine if a glass of water could threaten to become steam for the next day or so, it's that sort of do-not-want, also massively increases the energy requirement. Losing 30% of the energy means you might as well turn it into ammonia or other hydrogen carriers.


    We are moving away from gas so any port would be temporary. Germany built "ports" in 200 days. Or rather they are adding LNG tankers repurposed as a floating storage and re-gasification plants. Contracts for 10 years. Costs have gone up to €6.56Bn



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  • Registered Users Posts: 140 ✭✭The Real President Trump


    You haven't answered because obviously you can't, a tax is something taken from you that makes your life poorer a dividend is something you receive that makes your life richer

    I gave a very strong example of geothermal power combined with district heating that raises the people's living standards along with being green, that kind of thing you should be able to hammer out in your sleep



  • Registered Users Posts: 140 ✭✭The Real President Trump


    Is it not allegedly that green fella oisin / his buddy through the friends of the irish environment who is objecting to trees being thinned / pruned but also harvested and planted

    And then the minister has interpreted the environmental impact to extend to distances of 20km or more from the proposed boundary of forest so the entire industry is being attacked from all sides meanwhile they continue to talk diarrhoea about increasing forest cover



  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 91,621 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    Nuclear is only used for baseload. It's renewables and dispatchables that are exported.

    And this year French nuclear will have a capacity factor less than some windfarms and EDF have cost the government billions.


    And as I keep saying this year France has only had nett exports when there's plenty of wind. This time last year France had 10GW more nuclear than now and they were still importing 9GW (grey area at bottom) so we'll be exporting to them.


    Yesterday French solar output would have met the max 75% of non-synch generation our grid can take for several hours.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,273 ✭✭✭xxxxxxl


    So the upshot is we will be getting very little for the investment. Sounds like a Green Idea alright.



  • Registered Users Posts: 80 ✭✭drivingmissdaisy


    The Green revolution is based on fantasy

    Not enough Lithium

    Not enough Copper

    Both easily provable, we cant go electric, so anyone who pushed an electric future, where will the Lithium and copper come from?

    The answer is the plebs wont have cars or ability to travel, just the elite.

    Reject any politician that pushed this lie, they will be rewarded by the elite for screwing you out freedom of travel.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 88 ✭✭Phil McCracken


    Monkeys swinging from tree to tree don’t use outboard motors. Have you not heard of the bear necessities. 🙈



  • Registered Users Posts: 88 ✭✭Phil McCracken


    The angle you vomited out was that the greens are to blame for diseal gate not the manufacturers. Also FF where the largest party in government at the time and they agreed to it and no government since then attempted to reverse that until now.

    I originally stated that;

    “Water is also a byproduct of internal combustion but I wouldn’t be putting a glass under an exhaust to get a drink nor pour it into my pot plants 🪴.”

    I wasn’t looking for that to be parroted 🐦 but I’m glad at least some facts are sinking in even at this late stage.

    BTW I’m not a Green Party member.



  • Registered Users Posts: 88 ✭✭Phil McCracken


    You are missing a core concept. The majority of forestry planted since 1946 and before is commercial softwood. Yes the sequester CO2 but when there cut and the roots are ripped up that CO2 goes back into the atmosphere. That’s why hardwood plantations are being pushed and why farmers are to be paid to maintain them rather then cut them down.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Not sure about that but I had a look at the website and it would not surprise me.

    Full of the usual generalizations and tropes regarding forestry and questionable claims.

    I do know that the Greens demanded the forestry portfolio as a condition of getting into government. The relentless damage they are inflicting on the industry is scandalous and sanctioned so that Michael Martin could get his portrait on the walls of Leinster House.



  • Registered Users Posts: 88 ✭✭Phil McCracken




  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Nonsense.

    Roots are not ripped up. Some roots are lifted out as the ground is being prepared for the next planting but they stay on site and are not processed. In harvesting all that is removed is the stem o f the tree. Roots and branches remain as well as a not insignificant amount of wood waste in the way of crosscuts of stems as the log is being shaped, wood shavings and lengths used for supporting machinery on soft spots.

    As the site is prepared for new trees, the debris is windrowed or made into long lines every 10m effectively making tens of km of hedgerows within the new planting area, These offer shelter to birds and small mammals, provide insects and fungi with a food source and support plant life. For the next 10 years these sites are a haven for wildlife and millions of insects as they become covered with briar, foxglove and fireweed among other plants. The Greens will tell you none of this because it upsets their urban-minded fantasy of a Teddy bear's picnic type of forest with Thumper and Bambi and sweetness and light.

    What is a hardwood plantation? One of the hardest timbers we have is Douglas Fir, a conifer. All forests need to be maintained. Thinning of conifer or broadleaf plantations promotes faster growth so more CO2 is sequestered as well as being economically beneficial.

    Greens are fundamentalists and fascists.



  • Registered Users Posts: 88 ✭✭Phil McCracken


    So you open up by saying, @[Deleted User] said “ Nonsense.

    Roots are not ripped up” and then you go onto say, “ Some roots are lifted out” ie ripped out. I have seen forestry areas being butchered by tracked excavators after felling and I’ve done a fare amount of differing in my time.

    Ive also tramped through many forests in my time after cattle, sheep, rallies, both private and coillte and I’ve yet to battle through 10m 10Km ditches but I have twisted my ankles on rotting uprooted stumps.

    Thinnig out woodlands is done for commercial reasons the idea is you leave them in the ground.

    Below is a piece on fascism before you start throwing that term about read it and just briefly point out what make the Green Party fascists.




  • Registered Users Posts: 1,327 ✭✭✭paddyisreal


    https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2022/07/electric-vehicles-world-enough-lithium-resources/


    good article on how there is no where near enough lithium to meet demand so the op is correct.

    same with copper.

    Not to mention the destruction to the areas where these elements are mined. You see like all these so called green solutions some other poor bastard gets the **** flowing down the hill.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,327 ✭✭✭paddyisreal


    Fascism is control by a government in everything you do it doesn't have to be right wing , I wouldn't reply on Wikipedia for a definition of it.



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,993 ✭✭✭✭JRant


    Of course you aren't. Make sure you bring the window box veg garden in though, the frost might ruin those lovely lettuce's on you.

    On a more serious note I never mentioned diesel gate. I correctly stated that the greens lead the drive in changing from petrol to diesel cars. Even before the car manufacturers were caught fiddling the emissions it was well established that Diesel engines aren't great for people.

    "Well, yeah, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man"



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  • Registered Users Posts: 88 ✭✭Phil McCracken


    It’s clear enough that you don’t understand the core philosophical concepts to comment in any capacity 🤷‍♂️



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,913 ✭✭✭Danno


    BTW I’m not a Green Party member.

    How is it? Posters on here defending with every inch of text, GP policies - yet are not members or really bother voting for them. But they INSIST on making the point that they are not members or bother much in voting for them.

    Like an inverse of the hard-right: I'm not a racist, but...



  • Registered Users Posts: 29,397 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    yup, nuclear is the only option when all else fails!



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,327 ✭✭✭paddyisreal




  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]



    Nonsense.

    Talk about being triggered. First, show some respect for private property by keeping your lands stockproof so your animals don't trespass. Second, I'd say your crack needs filling.

    Fascism


    făsh′ĭz″əm

    noun

    1. A system of government marked by centralization of authority under a dictator, a capitalist economy subject to stringent governmental controls, violent suppression of the opposition, and typically a policy of belligerent nationalism and racism.
    2. A political philosophy or movement based on or advocating such a system of government.
    3. Oppressive, dictatorial control.

    The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, 5th Edition.


    Sounds like the Greens to me. You people are fcuked at the next election.




  • Registered Users Posts: 88 ✭✭Phil McCracken


    Well there this thing called science that I’ve been following for many many years on all different topics.

    As for being a Green party member or not I really don’t care what ideology you have but you do seem to know quite a bit about Green party polices. On the other hand you seem to think the inverse of right wing politics is not being a racist. 🤔



  • Registered Users Posts: 29,397 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    plenty of evidence to support, this is more than likely where we need to go, of course there will be problems with it, and failures along the way, but running out of power just isnt an option.....



  • Registered Users Posts: 88 ✭✭Phil McCracken


    Funny it’s a pity you didn’t read what you pasted before you copied it as non of those things exist in Ireland.

    Your final sentence sums up you’re understanding of the core concepts of your own argument

    @[Deleted User] said “ You people are fcuked at the next election.” In a fascist state there are no elections. Just sayin 🤷‍♂️



  • Registered Users Posts: 29,397 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78




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  • Registered Users Posts: 29,397 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    taxpayers money wouldnt be spent on such, the money would effectively be created on behalf of the public via bond markets, i.e. the irish government would create the bonds, to be sold into the bond markets, and in return we would create critical publicly owned assets in which would give a positive return, i.e. the mere existence of these energy assets, in which energy would be created and stored, and subsequently used for productive means in our own economy, generating economic activities, i.e. fueling our economy, i.e. keeping businesses in business and creating jobs, and at times of surplus energy creation, this energy would be sold into other eu member states networks, yielding returns, i.e. other eu member states would help to pay for repayment of the debts incurred throughout the whole process, and help maintain the whole network.....



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