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You've been looking in the wrong direction, the dangers are coming from the right.

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Comments

  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    The left used to be about working people, largely organized by working class people, and their rights and the need to stand up for them.

    This was when the left was good.

    Today, the left is populated by middle / upper middle class types who hate working class people and call them racists and fascists, and who want to sow as much division among and between as many demographics as possible.

    That is some gigantic shift. And a negative one at that.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,503 ✭✭✭✭Mad_maxx


    Things changed in 1989 , the middle class intellectuals of the left gave up on the economic fight and capitalism was content to leave the cultural space to them , since then the left has more or less entirely focused on cultural issues

    a sort of devils grand bargain also emerged whereby the left got free movement of people ( multiculturalism agenda ) but the 1% saw borders for capital and cheap labour come down ( globalisation)

    Post edited by Mad_maxx on


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,841 ✭✭✭TomTomTim


    a sort of devils grand bargain also emerged whereby the left got free movement of people ( multiculturalism agenda ) but the 1% saw borders for capital come down ( globalisation)

    This is it. The capitalist class and the cultural left both got into bed with each-other without the left ever knowing that they shared a bed. The left go their mass immigration in the name of "enrichment" and "inclusion", the capitalists go it in the name of workers and lowering wages. Both groups got what they wanted, yet still the left pretends to be rebel against the capitalist class while doing their bidding for them. A great example of that is all the supposed "anti neoliberals", who seem to spend a lot of their time supporting neoliberal institutions.

    “The man who lies to himself can be more easily offended than anyone else. You know it is sometimes very pleasant to take offense, isn't it? A man may know that nobody has insulted him, but that he has invented the insult for himself, has lied and exaggerated to make it picturesque, has caught at a word and made a mountain out of a molehill--he knows that himself, yet he will be the first to take offense, and will revel in his resentment till he feels great pleasure in it.”- ― Fyodor Dostoevsky, The Brothers Karamazov




  • Registered Users Posts: 12,908 ✭✭✭✭Rothko


    Anyone who defended that is immediately suspect.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,993 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    This old BS again.

    The difference between me and you is when I'm complaining about the right, I'm pointing to real and present individuals, philosophies and ideologies that are impacting people negatively in real ways.

    Everyone on here refusing to acknowledge this is bleating on about their interpretation of marxism from 100 years ago or whatever or getting worked up about supposed concerns from drag show artists reading books to kids, which seem to be inconsequential in the real world given the complete absence of anyone able to link to an event or article that shows what it is they are saying is happening, is what is happening.

    We're 1000+ posts in to this thread, and no one has been able to counter the principle message in the OP and here you are again with the same old nonsense without a hint of irony.

    Which ideology is refusing women the freedom and liberty to control their own bodies, or for people to identify in their preferred way, or even to marry who they want to? Which ideology stripped the freedom and liberty of millions of people in the UK to travel and live and work throughout Europe however they wished? Not to mention the freedom and liberties that are going to be taken from future generations as the climate issues are exacerbated because of current right wing ideologies

    Why don't you tell us what freedom and liberty the left are removing from people that affects most of us when compared to these.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,993 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    You mean like this?

    Tell me, which is weirder, the performer entertaining a room full of kids and their parents? Or the weirdo filming it from outside a window?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,993 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    I'm sure people on here have been playing close attention to the goings on an Twitter in recent weeks.

    And no doubt, they are delighted at the return of free speech* and probably also at the manner in which Elon is engaging with various accounts and the message that he is putting out there.

    Here is one of the individuals that Elon has been happily engaging with, in manners such as this tweet.

    This next tweet gives an insight in to this indivdiual.

    I spent a good part of last night on here asking people which they felt was more negatively impactful to children, drag show story hours, or the child beauty pageant environment, no one actually answered that question I'm pretty sure and so I'm asking it again here.

    And also, about this individual above, why do you think Musk is comfortable with engaging with this character while simultaneously claiming to want to stop children being put at risk. Or do you not see the hypocrisy turned all the way up to 11 here?

    * Free speech in the new Twitterverse must not make fun of Musk or be focused on discussing overtly fascist organizations. Down with that sort of thing.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    The performer is an adult entertainer.

    I disapprove of adult entertainers doing anything with children.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,918 ✭✭✭✭Igotadose


    As to the question of where the danger is coming from, well, Colorado has red-flag laws, so for example if you threaten to blow up police officers with a home-made bomb like the shooter did, in 2021, they might take your firearms away. Unfortunately, Colorado Springs claims to be a '2d amendment sanctuary' and is refusing to enforce that law.

    So, tell me, which side lobbies for '2d amendment sanctuary' laws? Seems like a blatant threat from the right - 'never mind those pesky laws, do what you want with your firearms.'

    As to drag shows, etc. isn't it great there's freedom of speech in America, we wouldn't want to deny that now would we? And, if the shooter is nonbinary, having been raised by his meth-addicted violent ex-porn star Mormon father who instilled a 'violence solves things' ethos into his son, whose grandfather was mayor of Santee California when there was a school shooting but downplayed it, and later in life became a 2020 election denier, well, I'd say this shooter was raised with a strong right-wing bent. Nonbinary can be right-wing, too.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,993 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    Thanks for stating so bluntly the entirety of your dislike of this is based on your own perceptions of what people are and not what it is that they are actually doing.

    An ounce of critical analysis would suggest that it is very possible that people can compartmentalize their lives in appropriate ways. Should we assume that you can't give you don't think others could?



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Don't you find it slightly creepy that some adults are losing the plot because they want adult entertainers to deliver a service to vulnerable children?

    I find it utterly bizarre.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,993 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    The ones losing the plot in my view are those who are intent that people are going to harm their children despite zero evidence that this will be the case.

    These same ones losing the plot want to corral various strands of history form being told to people and want more religious involvement in governance, despite probably the single biggest global network of pedophilia facilitation being a religious one.

    These same people have no issue with a high ranking conservative politician despite him ignoring students who told him they were being abused in the university he was working in.

    They had no issue with their elected officials trying to introduce legislation removing age as being a requirement for marriage.

    They didn't call for the Boy Scouts of America to be disbanded and shut down when it was discovered that there claims of over 92,000 cases of abuse being brought against the organisation just a few years ago.

    They are fine with kids wearing bathing suits fitted with push up bras and parading in front of people as part of a beauty pageant.

    I find it bizarre that despite these stories, and others being highlighted here, that your concern and that of other conservatives on here is the drag show story hour events. What do you think?



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Who is "they"?

    I'm of my own views only, not part of some nebulous and ill-defined "they".



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,993 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    Congratulations.

    Why are you outraged at the idea of drag story hour but not at the other real life impactful events such as I listed?



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Those large slabs of text were completely without nuance. For instance, you referred to Brexit - yet failed to recognize that this issue divided both traditional left and right voters.

    I could go on, but the lack of nuance is extraordinary.

    To lump everything together - both people and social and political issues - under one umbrella is as bad as the other side who hide everything under the word, Woke.

    Two sides of the same coin!



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,993 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    Stop trying to avoid answering.

    You already responded to the post in question and everyone can see there's no mention of Brexit in it.

    Here it is again.

    So, why are you so concerned about the concept of drag story hour, but seem to not have an issue with any of the instances I listed where real actual harm has been done?



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    If we were talking about those other subjects, I'd happily express my opinion on each.

    Just because I'm discussing my opinion on this matter does not mean I have no opinions on the other matters. But we cannot discuss a dozen topics at the same time, and the drag story one is the story that I came across when I entered the thread.

    I'm not avoiding answering anything, nor am I on trial here.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,183 ✭✭✭patnor1011


    You are so off the mark yet still try to muddy the waters talking "but his father said this and that". All your argument stands on what another person said. While we did not know some things on the day one, which prompted you to your anti right crusade, enough is known now to see how stupid this reasoning really is. Yet you still insist.

    Things like that father played zero role in shooter's life, was hardly any role model or influenced his actions. On the contrary, shooters identified as LGBTQ and he even changed his name so he will not be associated with him.

    And you still try to push this like his father was some hero for him and he did what he did because of him.

    Pathetic. Next time try to wait few days before you try to exploit some tragedy for your own political agenda.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,993 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    That's exactly my point.

    Let's be clear, you are not on trial (a weird inference at any rate), and this post isn't aimed at you per say, but those who will comment on one topic, but refuse to comment on others. You and I and everyone else are choosing to be here and you've thanked posts that implied what my motivation is so I'm sure you understand how I can assume what others is.

    What is happening here is people selectively choosing to comment intensively on a topic of perceived risk to children while refusing to comment events that involved actual harm to children.

    This suggests that it's reasonable to assume that conservative commentators on this particular thread, to this point, and many conservatives beyond it are not really motivated in protecting children, but using their safety as a stick to beat the Trans community with.

    This topic as it is, exemplifies exactly what the thread title is saying. It's actually proves the point given how resistant people are in commenting on some topics, but not others.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,993 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    All I've said is that I'm referring to factual events to presume a motive, you are not.

    We're not even equi-distance from the truth so fir you to be accusing me of muddying the water is funny in fact.

    Your final sentence is so ironic, it has to have been intentional.



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    When Mermaids were found to have compromised safeguarding for children, you and others said nothing. When 1,000+ families have decided to sue the Tavistock clinic over a similar lack of safeguarding of children, you and others said nothing.

    Instead, it was whataboutery.

    No concern for children at all.

    So no, let's not ascend the proverbial high horse here. Organizations that have actively damaged children have gone uncriticised and/or completely ignored - often conveniently.

    If this kind of scandal against children emerged from the right, you or your equivalent would be the first to express condemnation - and rightly so.

    Yet nothing is said when this crisis has evolved from a left-wing perspective.

    So if you are to be consistent, then perhaps condemn what's happening on your own turf first before throwing stones at the "right".



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,183 ✭✭✭patnor1011


    To call this person artist and that show as entertainment claiming it is normal and appropriate for children show exactly how delusional modern left is.




  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    That is adult entertainment applied to children.

    Note in the video how young children were also handing cash to the drag artist whilst the latter was performing.

    It's outrageously wrong. Sick, totally sick.

    How anyone can support this is beyond me.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,918 ✭✭✭✭Igotadose


    NY post stirring sh1te. So, what about this part (part of the advertising for that show):

    "“If you would not allow your children to see a Rated R movie or watch TV-MA programming, this is not the event for them. Minors must be accompanied by a parent/guardian.”

    Seems like the child's parents were o.k. with it, why aren't you? Their child, their choice.

    Just a bunch of pearl clutching. My guess is some "texas pol" put the child's parents up to it. As always, threats to the first amendment coming from the right in the US.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    What a dreadful justification for what transpired in that video.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,918 ✭✭✭✭Igotadose


    Do your pearls rattle harder if you clutch them more closely? I mean, blame the parents here, not the organizers who were perfectly clear about what was going to happen - one of the images shows another adult in the room laughing, so clearly some people (ugh!) enjoyed it.

    What's particularly nasty is that this private event is being used to justify legislation reducing freedom of speech, but this, of course, Texas no surprises there, the people of that state are into government diktat.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I'll blame both - the perpetrator and the enabler.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,918 ✭✭✭✭Igotadose


    If you mean the site where the event took place, what more would you have them do than publish warnings and say it's R-rated and so on? Personally, I wouldn't be surprised if the whole thing wasn't a setup by some right-wingitty types in Texas. And the perpetrator was the parents, full stop.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Do you approve of young children attending that drag event, where children are handing cash to the drag artist whilst she's performing, and at a time when the drag artist pulls up her skirt?

    No conspiracy theories.

    I'm quite clear: that's wrong, it crosses a very disturbing red line.

    So far you've not condemned it. Therefore would it be correct to assume that you support events and activities like the above?

    It's also worth throwing in for context that the same people who support the premise in the title of this thread are largely supportive of these events. Yet they want to project the problem as being everyone else. What an utter joke.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,918 ✭✭✭✭Igotadose


    I support parents right to bring their children to such events. Their child, their choice. And (in the USA anyway, which is the subject of that NY post article), there's freedom of speech. Unlike what exists in Ireland, which as you recall had a blasphemy law on the books for many decades until recently.

    Do you support them going to a Mass on Sunday in Ireland? There's groomers up there in dresses, many of them coworkers of convicted pedophiles.

    Lecturing from a work of fantasy that has all sorts of nasties in it like rape and murder of infants and mass circumcisions and on and on.

    And, as the subject of this thread reminds us, who is threatening the loss of civil liberties here, the likes of the NY post? A Murdoch flagship rag that makes its coin stirring up the MAGAts. Basically an online/print version of Faux news.

    Would I take a kid to a drag show? No, probably not. But I wouldn't stop anyone else from taking their kid. For one, little kids won't understand it and its as such a waste of time and money.

    But if they found out about and asked to go, after discussion with the kid to confirm, sure off we'd go.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    “Their child, their choice” doesn’t work when it’s child abuse.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,918 ✭✭✭✭Igotadose


    Why do you think its child abuse (unlike, say, rape by the RCC?) Is there a statute against this, or just some phrase you're clutching at?



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Because it is child abuse. And believe me, I don’t consider child abuse a “phrase”.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Trying to explain away one form of child abuse by referring to the Catholic Church has got to be the worst justifications I've ever come across.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,918 ✭✭✭✭Igotadose


    Fine, so take the children away if their parents are so massively indifferent to their conditions. Remember, the parent had to accompany the child and saw fit to stay through the program (at least, we're led to believe that, don't know if any parents decided to leave early.)

    And I'm still not seeing how a drag show is child abuse, have you got the text of the statute? Do you know if the jurisdiction in question has enabled their child protective services to take children away in these circumstances.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Don't be disingenuous.

    You saw the footage above. It's abundantly clear what's abusive about it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 85,296 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    If that’s incitement to hatred then this was incitement to hatred. Y’all are being ridiculous.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,841 ✭✭✭TomTomTim


    I've yet to see even one of them do the most basic thing when it comes to this stuff, saying that it's wrong. They seem literally incapable of it. You can't on one hand say that our community is being unfairly attacked by being labelled as groomers, then on the other never condemn any of these dubious acts.

    “The man who lies to himself can be more easily offended than anyone else. You know it is sometimes very pleasant to take offense, isn't it? A man may know that nobody has insulted him, but that he has invented the insult for himself, has lied and exaggerated to make it picturesque, has caught at a word and made a mountain out of a molehill--he knows that himself, yet he will be the first to take offense, and will revel in his resentment till he feels great pleasure in it.”- ― Fyodor Dostoevsky, The Brothers Karamazov




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 85,296 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    I don't think children are allowed on the premises in hooters

    this tells us a lot, that you wouldn’t find it acceptable. LMGTFY




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 85,296 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    Most entertainers happen to be 18+ this is **** ridiculous



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 85,296 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    This is the drag show that advertised itself as “rated R” though. They did nothing wrong.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 85,296 ✭✭✭✭Overheal




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 85,296 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    Inarticulable. Got it. Lol

    also: what makes one 6 year old “vulnerable” and another not. You keep making that descriptor.



  • Administrators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 77,707 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Beasty


    We have had enough discussion of transgender issues across numerous threads. Don't be surprised if this thread gets closed if it continues here



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,474 ✭✭✭✭nullzero
    °°°°°


    To get back to the premise of the thread, the notion that all the ills of the world are the fault of "the right" speaks to the ingrained issues in modern socio political discourse.

    This is a blame game.

    There is no appetite to find a middle ground and compromise like people were capable of doing in the past.

    It definitely feels as if people who are on either the left or the right these days are so entrenched in their beliefs that they are incapable of even entertaining the notion of comprise nor do they possess the ability to empathise with each other.

    Whatever the situation may be there's an opportunity to score points against the other side.

    It's like watching toddlers squabbling over their toys throwing tantrums at every opportunity, it's pathetic and sadly unlikely to change any time soon.

    Glazers Out!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,918 ✭✭✭✭Igotadose


    Compromise takes two though. One recent peril, rise of populism (Trump and the various others in European politics) are... from the 'right' and claim to be 'conservative.'

    Brexit with its enormous damage to the UK came from... the 'right.'

    Gun violence in the US as discussed recently in this thread, in a state that despite having 'red flag laws' took place in a city that refused to enforce those laws as its a '2d amendment sanctuary'... all 'right wing' sponsored and supported legislation.

    But, let's continue the mental exercise. It's more than a blame game - people's lives are directly impacted by it. For example, the repeal of Roe, driven by the evangelical right and the RCC with its acolytes on the US Supreme Court, is killing women. What kind of compromise have those that advocated for this repeal offered? Incest exemptions? Nope. Rape exemptions? Nope. A national ban on abortion? Yes.

    So, how do you get to compromise? I'm not sure it really is possible, you can't trust religious authorities to drive it, and if you continue to erode freedom of speech, (keep an eye on the SCOTUS, they've got a number of free speech cases on the docket coming up), you can't get to compromise and are back to just plain naked power like was shown in the path that got Neil Gorsuch on the SCOTUS.

    But if you have examples of the 'right' sharing something that sounds like compromise, do tell. Maybe this is true in Ireland which is much more on the left than the US - to the regret of a number of posters on Boards, but trolls will be trolls. And Ireland benefits from a more modern electoral system, but there is still the pernicious and pervasive influence of the RCC in public life and discourse, and their spokespeople like Fr. Sean Sheehy demonstrate how much compromise the religious right have to offer.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,993 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    This is like Republicans asking Biden to meet them half way after they spent 4 years cheering Trump for sh*tting on everyone and everything.

    Trying to both sides without offering comparable left wing strategies that are negatively impacting people, as has been done with respect to right wing ideals several times throughout the thread is in itself some sort of an acknowledgement of the root cause of what affects a lot of our communities.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,474 ✭✭✭✭nullzero
    °°°°°


    Compromise takes two. Agreed.

    The rest of your post is more of the same we've seen here before, the right are awful etc...

    A more valuable mental exercise for both sides would be to look at what they do themselves that is so repellent to the other side.

    Until that can be happen no compromise will ever be achieved.

    Ironically you and your right wing counterparts always assume your own moral high grounds, you're all far too comfortable massaging your own egos to entertain comprise, and why would you when the other side are so terrible?

    It's a waste of time trying to reason with people who hold entrenched views it would seem, the majority of people are in the middle ground but it's a relatively quiet place to inhabit, all the noise comes from the fringes sadly.

    Glazers Out!



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I completely agree, compromise is essential.

    That process is made much more difficult when many people frame those on the right as either fascists or Neo-Nazis.

    That kind of deliberately inflammatory language is not designed to create consensus.



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