Church of Ireland - dying a slow death?

I'm happy to say that attendance in my "local" Presbyterian church has bounced back post-covid, but what I have seen is the loss of a number of members being replaced by an influx of new members.

My general impression is that those churches with a formal liturgy are probably suffering the most - a lot of people, especially young people, can no longer relate to this. I also think its a lot to do with the leadership. While God is unchanging, liturgy is just tradition and failing to engage with young people.

What's the standard of Bible teaching in the church? Thought provoking? or have you "heard it all before"?

Monkstown parish church, just looking there afterwards (three Sunday's ago), seemed to have healthy enough numbers, not a vast mob, and that was people there afterwards for some sort of sale, when most would likely have departed for home.

How many services do they have on a Sunday today and how many did they have 20 or 30 years ago?

Why?

Religion has largely just been used as a means of identifying the "other wans" here over the last hundred years at least.

I'm non-religious and identify as nationalist/republican but I don't celebrate the long slow demise of any particular one.

Besides, this forum isn't for politics.

Be careful what you wish for, the religions in ascent at the moment aren't better, and not all of them are obviously religions at first glance.

Now it's two Eucharists on the first Sunday of every month, plus Wednesday, and usually these are two Eucharists on Sundays with Matins or a Family Service on one Sunday each. That is still a decent frequency for CoI and while there might have been daily Services some time ago (a parishioner might advise), the numbers (to my slight understanding) there are adequate. Abandoned Churches of Ireland, by Corkman Tarquin Blake, does suggest that the numbers of most of those ruinous churches in his book were never healthy in comparison to the local (Roman) Catholic parish. They seemed a bit like a chapel of ease for a landlord, staff and some tenants paid for by the UK Treasury, say roughly 20 to 40 on Sunday, hence unroofing between 20s and 60s as estates disappeared. The Monkstown parish church that Betjeman so loved, and maybe St Mary's Baltinglass, seem healthier than that having a base in local communities.

Not all Non Roman Catholic Christians are "Planters" .

The north and the south have very different attitudes and you should understand before you post.

Politics aside, I wonder if any other CoI members could share their views on the original question i.e. "is the Church of Ireland dying a slow death?" Have you any other suggestions which might improve numbers, attendances even? I visited a country parish a few weeks ago, I remember it being a thriving parish about 20-30 years ago, now hardly a dozen attending and they're managing to keep it going under great pressure. One thing the CoI always did well was 'close community', but it's not there now in some parishes. I've noticed Rectors don't seem to know their parishioners any more, or at least they think they do, but really, they don't.

Yes I'd say dying a slow death and which is a pity since the Church of Ireland is just that and can trace it's roots back to St.Patrick etc.

A very great deal of my teenage years was spent at my church (Methodist). I went to services, taught Sunday School, went to bible study, youth club, Girl Guides, 'Sunday Evening Walks', and many more general activities. It was safe and great fun and gave me a lot of opportunities and responsibilities that I would not have had otherwise. We hiked, camped, tried sports, pony trekked, fired a gun (!) (we went to investigate the local army barracks), danced, debated, sang and socialised. There was some very quiet supervision but mostly we organised ourselves.

As my age-group was getting to late teens/early twenties and naturally dispersing there was an influx of younger people into the group. We had always had people joining but they were absorbed into the club as it was. This younger group of 15/16 year olds were completely different. They had no interest in getting involved in organising activities and only wanted to hang around talking/messing and listening to music. Organising stuff was apparently not cool. I left around that time as I was moving away, but I believe the club more or less fizzled out, as JB says, around the 70s. It was strange, as the 'new people' were only a few years younger than us, but there seemed to be a huge personality change quite suddenly. There were huge social changes in the 60s and 70s in England. I remember the 50s being shades of grey, but the 60s were in colour!

I suspect the CofI situation was a bit similar in that the church had an important social role at a time when there was not a great deal of alternative entertainment, and possibly being CofI led to a sense of not really being part of the wider community, a sense of being beleaguered - or maybe from the other side, stand-offish. Stay at home wives had had a social outlet and achieved social standing by their contribution to church events. As more women went out to work they often moved away, had less time for church socialising, and showing off their baking and sewing skills became less significant as they gained a sense of achievement through education and their professional lives. Or of course they simply got older and less active. And of course, for all sorts of reasons, people moved away from religion generally.

The CofI is dying a slow death, as is the Catholic Church, but because the latter is vastly bigger its demise, while dramatic, is not so obvious.

I agree with Looksee regarding the shift in the 70's with the 'new' generation of youngsters. It just wasn't cool to be seen going to church activities and I remember a few from my youth group heading off to (horrors!) nightclubs!!!! I can't deny it, I did go to a nightclub once and my experience was to say the least frightening, never to be repeated. Maybe I'm just one of those boring church people! I have to say I have had so much fun within the church groups, and found a lot of friendship there, however, it's dying and I don't see it getting better as most of the youth are gone. On a more optimistic note, the churches embracing newer style of worship are doing well, and hopefully a lot of the CoI youth are heading to those churches instead.

Maybe in the past there was a desire - or even a need - for social outlets specifically for Protestants?

Of course within living memory there were anti-Protestant boycotts in the Republic of Ireland - and there was much legislation which reflected specifically Catholic teaching.

Nowadays nobody cares what religion (if any) anyone is in a social or work setting but that was not always the case.

My mother's sister married a Protestant man in the late 1960s, that was regarded as rather controversial it seems (I wasn't born then), they eloped to Berlin! Of course Catholics who married Protestants were obliged to promise that any resulting children were brought up as Catholics. No doubt some in the Protestant community regarded "mixed marriages" as a slow death for their community.

Without wishing to be pedantic, the Church of Ireland whilst part of the Anglican group of churches, is more or less independent. It has an annual synod which 'legislates' for the church. The synod is made up of bishops, clergy and laity. So it's democratic in nature.

The Roman Catholic Church has bishops etc here but is answerable overall to the pope in Rome and lacks transparency and democracy.

So you can see why Church of Ireland have this strong sense of Irishness.

I’m Catholic and I go to mass approx. 5 days a week because I find it is a lovely start to the day. I look around me and the mass 8. 45 am is well attended by lovely people that I know as I live in a small town in the midlands. I would hope the C of E congregation remains strong as religion in a persons life is most important. Of course, some priests have let the side down but it’s important not to tar those wonderful men and women who made a huge contribution to society as a result of their work.

OK ….C of I…..sorry for getting it so completely wrong. Is there a difference? Only in name. Henry the 8th is responsible for both persuasions.

I know here in the South-east they rotate Sunday services amongst the various churches (say 3 or 4) in the Union of Churches/Parishes. So it's possible locals just go along to a neighbouring Union for Sunday service. RC will likely adopt a similar model as Priest numbers fall further.

Hi, there is definitely a fall off in attendance at the more ‘traditional’ services, but anecdotally I’ve heard great things about churches where there is a contemporary service as well (think drums, guitars and powerpoint), those are thriving. I’m from a town of about 20,000 people, not sure what proportion would be CoI, but we have a weekly attendance of 20/30 now. Pre-pandemic it would be about 50/60. We only have the traditional service. I’m not sure about attendances in the other churches in the group, but they also have the traditional services.

@BingCrosbee @Thinkingaboutit Re the CoE/CoI thing, the Church of Ireland voted to disestablish in 1869, and as a result became self-governing from 1870 by an annual General Synod. One upshot of this, is the CoI can, and has, revised their Book of Common Prayer (revised in 2004). AFAIK for the CoE to revise their BCP it requires an Act of Parliament (Westminster). It's one reason why people brought up in the CoE (or the Church in Wales which is the Welsh equivalent and disestablished in the 1920s) tend to find the CoI slightly different. CoI is also a little lower in ritual than the CoE.

It’s a bit like when, just over 100 years ago, we in Ireland ‘disestablished’ from the United Kingdom, and set up our own parliament (the Dail). When Jeremy Hunt announces his budget, it will affect people in Surrey, not Cork. 😉

The Lambeth Conference takes place every 10 years, and while the Archbishop of Canterbury chairs, he is very much primus inter pares (first among equals).

There’s more about disestablishment and the CoI on https://www.ireland.anglican.org/our-faith/apck-leaflets/disestablishment  and https://www.ireland.anglican.org/about/welcome-to-disestablishment-150/disestablishment-in-context

https://www.anglicancommunion.org/

Excellent nitpick @Peregrinus and the house of bishops were certainly against it... They lost it as a result.

Also, it gave us the excellent word "antidisestablishmentarianism".

The C of I needs to get back to the basics. It needs less progressive and more authentic message. The more traditionalist Catholic parishes are doing fine. So the C of I needs Calvin Robinson figures. People crave the sincerity and reason of traditionalists.

Yes and no. Ireland is in the early stages. If you want to see late stage look at Israel, or Finland or the Netherlands. Basically secular people are not able to replace themselves through the culture of death in our soceity. Although small, conservative groups tend to more fertile and even slightly religious women such as women who say they are christian but don't go to church show the trend to a lesser degree. Even small differences in fertility add up over time and self sustain. not enough to become majorities but certainly not disappear either.