You've been looking in the wrong direction, the dangers are coming from the right.

And from the opposite point of view it’s like Hillary declaring anyone outside of the North Eastern seaboard “a basket of deplorables”. What’s that if it’s not shìtting on everyone who doesn’t share their ideas?

Comparable left-wing strategies were offered, and hand-waved away in the same “nothing to see here” fashion as the people you’re claiming are the REAL threat to our democratic society. I had paraphrased your opening post in the beginning, and it was clear I was paraphrasing, yet instead of actually bothering to listen, you decided a better strategy was to double down and prove my point -

Me:

Essentially the whole thing can be summed up as “respect your betters” 😏

Well, you could have just said that instead of trying to demonise anyone who doesn’t share your opinions on many topics as being hoodwinked by idiots who are the equivalent of your political opposites to exactly the same degree…

And your response?

Did also want to comment on your summation that my view is 'respect your betters', again, they are your words, not mine. We were led to believe that people on the right are big proponents of the 'facts over feelings' approach, surely then they should be arguing in favour of listening to those educated, experienced and active in a field rather than just some of the cuff opinion. No?

It was obvious they were my words, based upon my interpretation of your post, in the same manner as you made the statement you were led to believe that people on the right are big proponents of the ‘facts over feelings’ approach. By whom? Certainly not by me anyway. Can’t stand that sort of trite rhetoric, it’s completely meaningless.

I was reminded of the idea of examining your own prejudices first before you critique other people for theirs, in mass this morning. It’s something I consistently advocate anyway -

The New Commandment

7 Beloved, I am writing you no new commandment, but an old commandment that you had from the beginning. The old commandment is the word that you have heard. 8 At the same time, it is a new commandment that I am writing to you, which is true in him and in you, because[a] the darkness is passing away and the true light is already shining.9 Whoever says he is in the light and hates his brother is still in darkness. 10 Whoever loves his brother abides in the light, and in him[b] there is no cause for stumbling. 11 But whoever hates his brother is in the darkness and walks in the darkness, and does not know where he is going, because the darkness has blinded his eyes.

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20John%202&version=ESV

But there’s little point in arguing the value of religious sentiment with someone who doesn’t share the same beliefs or values, which is really what you’re trying to do from the outset of this thread. The things you imagine are a threat to society, like you’re so taken up with proclaiming the ‘dangers’ to society of the religious right, simply because you think of your values as being of greater importance and value to society than theirs.

You’re not interested in listening, or compromise, or any of the ideas you proclaim your political opponents should practice, than they’re interested in your ideas. That’s why most people aren’t concerned about any kind of declarations of any threats coming from either the left, or the right, and why in spite of your best efforts, you’re about as likely to be successful in your efforts to convince people your way of thinking is better for society than ideas which they believe themselves are better for society as a whole - you’re not prepared to listen to other people’s ideas, they’re not prepared to listen to yours.

Seems a bit obvious really.

The transcript doesn’t say no? And Anderson Cooper could hardly be considered a Trump supporter? Hillary’s only regret was that she said half, but by then the damage to her campaign was done -

The following day Clinton expressed regret for "saying half", while insisting that Trump had deplorably amplified "hateful views and voices". At the second presidential debate in October 2016, after Trump mentioned the speech in a response to James Carter, debate moderator Anderson Cooper asked Clinton: "How can you unite a country if you've written off tens of millions of Americans?" Clinton responded to Cooper's question by saying: "My argument is not with his supporters, it's with him and the hateful, divisive campaign he has run".

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basket_of_deplorables

I’m not sure what event you’re referring to that you’re claiming was staged, but for what it’s worth, I think you’re exaggerating to suggest it was ‘one side’ when in reality it was pretty much one poster, who has a real bee in their bonnet about that sort of thing. To suggest it’s of any real concern to most people who regard themselves as either right leaning or conservative is the stuff that progressive leftists wet dreams are made of.

Abortion on the other hand, and suggesting that women are dying as a consequence of Roe v Wade being overturned and returned to State legislatures, is the epitome of one side having kittens and spreading the lie.

You would nearly feel sorry for staunch hard left and right wing people. They all seem so unhappy with the world. NO matter what happens they will find more and more reasons to think doomsday is on its way because of the "other" side. Its evident on boards that the posters incapable of listening to others view points are not the happiest of campers, sometimes a break from online forums is a best.

It is funny to watch people who never experienced living in socialist paradise call for one to be implemented immediately, while people who live in those gulags cant wait till system collapse. Because it always collapsed from within since this idea is simply ridiculous, open to exploitation from every side imaginable and designed on suppressing individual.

You can suggest what you want man i dont mind at all. I have a grand old life tbf, most of it of my own doing however with help from my parents. That could all change tomorrow driving home from work after this night shift which is why i don't get too het up on things. Its all fine and dandy having an opinion on something, i don't agree with alot of your opinions but it doesn't bother me much and i dont think your a bad person for having them. You come across like you despise conservative leaning people and i dont feel that's a healthy outlook to have on a large swathe of the people you will come across on a daily basis, liberalism and conservatism are here to stay so getting too emotional about these things is not good for anybody.

Well yes, the focus is on you seeing as you’re the person trying to warn people of the dangers of other people whose opinions and policies you claim are a threat to society. Why wouldn’t the focus be on examining you and your claims to determine whether there is any legitimacy in what you’re saying if you’re attempting to portray anyone as a threat to society?

I’m not the least bit offended that you don’t even want to acknowledge that it isn’t a counter argument I’m presenting, it’s the idea that you’re not any different from the people you claim are a threat to society by virtue of the fact that they imagine they know just like you do what’s best for society and they engage in the same sort of behaviour, only from the opposite perspective - portraying you and your opinions as the threat to society. I don’t think of you and your opinions as any sort of a threat to society. I think you’re as up to your neck entrenched in the culture wars as the small number of people whom you perceive to be a threat to society.

That’s not why I pointed out the futility of attempting to argue against a person when you don’t share their religious beliefs, it was to point out that you and they aren’t operating within the same framework. It stands to reason that people who don’t share your political views aren’t going to perceive other people in the same manner as you do, nor are they going to see the need to portray other people in the same manner as you do.

That’s why, while I got the reference, it was your attempt to attribute it to a broader group of people when in reality it was simply the utterance of one individual who most people even on your side of the Atlantic will never have heard of, let alone this side of the Atlantic. I think now you can appreciate why I was skeptical of your claims of what you were led to believe by any broad group of people when in reality those people who claim that sort of nonsense are in reality only a very small number in any given society, so small that they could hardly be perceived as a threat, and yet here you are amplifying and elevating their opinions to a status they do not have in reality.

In much the same way, some quarters in the media here tried to make a mountain out of a molehill here here when a priest in Kerry came out with similarly dumb shìt, and people tried to use it for their own political gain - rather than keeping it in perspective, they tried to suggest his opinions were representative of a broader group of people in Irish society, in the same way as you’re attempting to suggest anyone is using religion to control other people. It doesn’t seem possible in your world view that anyone who doesn’t share your perspective could have their own agency, which is why I suggested that given your approach, your attempts from your opening post up to now, 40 odd pages later, would come to nothing in your attempts to convince people of the threat to society posed by people whom you declare are a danger to society.

I don’t mind admitting that I’m not best placed to be in the middle of a conversation about modern day ideologies and how they are showcased and communicated in todays interactive environment, but then doesn’t your opinion of my lack of knowledge or understanding about the nuances of modern day ideologies and how they are showcased and communicated amount to the same position as I had previously summarised?

Essentially the whole thing can be summed up as “respect your betters” 😏

Of course from your perspective it stands to reason that I’m wrong about Hillary too, I need you to interpret it for me when Hillary refers to a whole group of people in society as a basket of deplorables. It’s not as though I’m capable of figuring out for myself whom she was referring to in the context in which she was speaking. In the same way, I’m capable of figuring out for myself whom you’re referring to in the context in which you’re speaking, and you don’t get to absolve yourself of taking responsibility for how your opinions are perceived, in the same manner as Hillary couldn’t blame Trump for how her opinions on people who don’t share her values were perceived. Here’s exactly what she said, in the context in which she said it -

You know, to just be grossly generalistic, you could put half of Trump's supporters into what I call the basket of deplorables. (Laughter/applause) Right? (Laughter/applause) They're racist, sexist, homophobic, xenophobic, Islamophobic – you name it. And unfortunately, there are people like that. And he has lifted them up. He has given voice to their websites that used to only have 11,000 people – now have 11 million. He tweets and retweets their offensive hateful mean-spirited rhetoric. Now, some of those folks – they are irredeemable, but thankfully, they are not America.

But the "other" basket – the other basket – and I know because I look at this crowd I see friends from all over America here: I see friends from Florida and Georgia and South Carolina and Texas and – as well as, you know, New York and California – but that "other" basket of people are people who feel the government has let them down, the economy has let them down, nobody cares about them, nobody worries about what happens to their lives and their futures; and they're just desperate for change. It doesn't really even matter where it comes from. They don't buy everything he says, but – he seems to hold out some hope that their lives will be different. They won't wake up and see their jobs disappear, lose a kid to heroin, feel like they're in a dead-end. Those are people we have to understand and empathize with as well.

To suggest that anyone doesn’t understand what she meant or that they are interpreting her statement incorrectly, or they are simply wrong, is to be as condescending as she was being in saying what she said. It can be easier summarised as follows -

Essentially the whole thing can be summed up as “respect your betters” 😏

You obviously DO care that people dismiss your concerns as being entrenched within vague culture wars which are pretty much played out online and have very little in the way of any real impact on people’s lives, or you wouldn’t have started a thread warning people of the dangers of dismissing what you see as issues that anyone who doesn’t already share your perspective should be concerned about.

The very title of your thread, and I’m sure you’re familiar with it already, but you warn people that they are looking in the wrong direction, that the dangers are coming from the right. News for you TMH as it still doesn’t appear to be sinking in even at this point - the way you perceive danger is the same way people who don’t share your perspective wish to promote as being values and policies which are worth promoting, protecting and supporting, in a democratic society. Why would anyone who doesn’t share your perspective see their own views as dangerous?

The priest wasn’t the point, the media amplifying what the priest had said, was the point. Giving him any airtime at all, was the point. The best way to have dealt with him, and I know of course you’ll disagree, is simply to deprive him of an audience, as a few of the parishioners in the church attending mass that day did - they simply walked out of the mass. No drama, no making a bigger deal out of it than it was. No trying to suggest that anyone who is a member of the Catholic Church shared his views. That didn’t stop RTE et al from trying to wangle an angle out of it to generate outrage and thereby revenue for themselves. Goodness knows traditional media needs it.

As for what you perceive to be ‘undue influence’, they maintain dominance in many aspects of Irish life, including healthcare, education, social services, rural and urban communities, hell now I think of it I had a bit of a chuckle and all at Josepha Madigan leading the congregation in celebrating mass, and the way RTE and the few media outlets again tried to make a mountain out of a molehill -

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/culture-minister-steps-up-in-local-church-to-say-mass-as-priest-a-no-show-37045322.html

Gas woman 😂

You can fcuks sake all you like and all, but I’d already pointed out that the only thing Hillary said she had regretted about what she said, was that she said half -

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2016/09/09/politics/hillary-clinton-donald-trump-basket-of-deplorables/index.html

Might have been possible to dismiss it as daft when Hillary said it the first time, y’know like when Biden said if you vote for Trump you ain’t black? (at least he didn’t say you ain’t a ‘person of color’! 😂), but when she doubled down on telling people who share her views that the people who don’t share her views aren’t American? She was just handing Trump the victory at that stage, because when was the last time you supported anyone when they’d made you aware they didn’t just think your values were deplorable, you’re not even American!

In much the same way, who are you to decide for other people that they’re looking in the wrong direction? Did it ever occur to you that they’re quite satisfied with the direction society is going, and aren’t particularly concerned by Chicken Little level displays of doom and gloom ahead coming from people whose perspective they really don’t care to share?

And where do you think the threats to it are coming from, since that's the subject of this thread?

And from your comments and other Americans here.

The most dramatic hysterical stuff usually comes from an America.

So, there are no threats then? I certainly didn't want to say it was unassailable, you raise a good point - are there any threats? I have identified a few, others have as well. Are there any in your view? And what are they threatening? Because I'm actually trying to get honest opinions as to what threats there are, and where they're coming from. I'm still at a loss as to what's coming from 'far left loonies.' But the right is in ascendance, at least in the USA, when it comes to threats (and loonies.) Maybe it's like Jack said, it's just trolling. Seems like an awful lot of energy and money spent on trolling though. They want to change US socieity.

Absolute lack? There's always a few "Irexit/National Party" types showing up sprinkled throughout the site. There are regular posters on the CT forums that are holocaust deniers. The odd out-and-out anti-semite shows up, too. So we're not at the zero far-right loony level. I agree, it's low. And yes, there are left-wing loonies on this site. What are they threatening, exactly? Or in general? Most of the anguished discourse about that seems to be on threads about wokeism, green party policy and other stuff. I think one difference is that the types on the right are better rehearsed at claiming victimhood.

From an Irish point of view - American culture and hysteria.