Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

What are your views on Multiculturalism in Ireland? - Threadbanned User List in OP

Options
1611612614616617643

Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 13,504 ✭✭✭✭Mad_maxx


    Knowing the Japanese, they will invent their way out of it via technological innovation



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,496 ✭✭✭Luxembourgo




  • Registered Users Posts: 41,062 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,762 ✭✭✭ArthurDayne


    Sorry but how is this relevant?

    Preservation of native Irish culture has had very little impact from immigration. The Irish language, possibly the ultimate expression of Irish culture, and it's position as a social, musical and political language on this island has been largely neglected by the Irish people. The people I know who are doing great work to continue to promote old Irish customs and heritage are certainly not Far Right

    Far and away, the greatest changes in Irish culture over the last number of decades have been driven from within the English-speaking world — particularly the US (including things like social media which emanated from there) and the UK (British media, sports etc). The cultural impact of migrants on the 'erosion' of Irish culture does not seem very obvious to me.



  • Registered Users Posts: 156 ✭✭Nosler


    What does your side of the debate do? Shout out labels like "far right" and "racist"?

    People have legitimate concerns about multiculturalism. Shouting them down only works for so long....

    I bet there is not one single person on boards that wants to completely stop immigration. However 99% of people here would like it reduced...



  • Advertisement
  • Administrators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 76,130 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Beasty


    The topic is multiculturalism in Ireland

    It is not riots in Belgium

    It is not the housing crisis



  • Registered Users Posts: 480 ✭✭getoutadodge


    Given that this graph dates from 2016, I can only assume I am a now a minority in my own area.



  • Registered Users Posts: 156 ✭✭Nosler


    I'd genuinely be interested to hear how foreign cultures benefit ireland.

    Some cultures I genuinely like. I like the easy friendliness of Americans. I like the beach culture of Australia. I like the engineering culture of Germany. I like the manana culture in Spain. I like the civilised food and drink culture in France.

    However, some other cultures I dont like as much...

    I think for multiculturalism to work each individual culture has to share some core values. Imho, not all the cultures in Ireland share these core values.



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,381 ✭✭✭Yurt2


    I had a German neighbour once. I think he had an alcohol problem and never cleaned up after his damn dog when it took a sh*te when he was walking it. He didn't even mention engineering once when I talked to him. What a let-down.

    The Spanish indeed have delicious mananas though - manana fritters, manana smoothies, manana boats at the beach are great fun. That is what you're talking about right?

    Disapointingly, any Aussies I've met in Ireland have never had a beach with them. Short-armed about getting their round in though.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 12,704 ✭✭✭✭The Nal


    Agree 100%. Im really referring to the (small) crowd who turn up at any old protest. Like 5Gemmas crew who sat outside Google every weekday for months. The cheek of them to be complaining about immigrants using public resources.

    Turning up and abusing asylum seekers is low end stuff though isnt it. As if these peoples first choice was to leave their country, their families and friends and move ito an old ESB office building in November in Ireland.

    This made me laugh though: "Mr Steenson, who describes himself as a republican socialist, said he was one a committee of seven local people who met the ministers. He said the group gave the government seven days to move the asylum applicants out and close the building."

    https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/local-residents-and-right-wing-activists-among-crowd-as-protest-resumes-against-east-wall-asylum-accommodation-42176005.html



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,762 ✭✭✭ArthurDayne


    Yeah but whose core values are we talking about here? Those things you mention from wealthy western countries — well — since when are those "core values" of Ireland? Beach culture, high end gastronomy and engineering?

    It sounds like picking and choosing to be honest — Brazil has a beach culture for example. Hell, from what I've seen in Latin America, most of that continent has a much more similar family oriented culture (like Ireland) than you will find in places like France (having lived there myself).

    People could pick and choose what Irish culture is depending on where they are looking. Applying the same blinkers you are wearing, people could boil us down to boorish drunkards. Go into Coppers on a Saturday night — let's not pretend for a second that we don't know that women are routinely subjected to unwanted touching and grabbing by drunken Irish men and someone could just tar our entire culture with the same brush (the same way we are often told of Muslim migrants harassing women).

    You could put a quiet little peaceful town out the country beside the most deprived areas of Dublin and get a very different view of what Irish culture is and what our core values are. Like the elements of culture you chose to pick out of the hat, so much of it comes down to privilege too.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,116 ✭✭✭lmao10


    Did you ever hear of some Irish gangs? They are quite big. Murders of innocent people have occurred. Imagine someone posted a link about one of those gangs to try to tar people like you or me with that same brush. A child could understand this so not sure why a lot of posters seem to think posting some crimes by immigrants means that all immigrants are criminals. Should Irish people be outlawed from other countries because of Irish criminal gangs?



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,841 ✭✭✭TomTomTim


    go into Coppers on a Saturday night — let's not pretend for a second that we don't know that women are routinely subjected to unwanted touching and grabbing by drunken Irish men and someone could just tar our entire culture with the same brush (the same way we are often told of Muslim migrants harassing women).

    Absolutely desperate stuff. You're trying to draw a comparison that's nonsensical. I'd be surprised if even a few percent of Irish men engaged in the above on a night out, and it's something that has literally nothing to do with wider Irish culture. On the Islamic side, the view of women, which results in what you've mentioned, comes from wider Islamic cultural views.

    It's like groundhog day with you every time you post in here. It's been explained to you again and again, that no one blames all immigrants for anything, but that certain demographics have higher crime rates globally, and that it's simply not worth the good for the bad, as all we're doing is adding more problems to society. Every post your make relies on lies, and holding views against others that they've never had.

    “The man who lies to himself can be more easily offended than anyone else. You know it is sometimes very pleasant to take offense, isn't it? A man may know that nobody has insulted him, but that he has invented the insult for himself, has lied and exaggerated to make it picturesque, has caught at a word and made a mountain out of a molehill--he knows that himself, yet he will be the first to take offense, and will revel in his resentment till he feels great pleasure in it.”- ― Fyodor Dostoevsky, The Brothers Karamazov




  • Registered Users Posts: 1,762 ✭✭✭ArthurDayne


    See, you say that, but if I was to flip that question around and ask how many Irish women have been subjected at some stage in their lives to unwanted touching and grabbing in pubs and clubs in Ireland, what would you say the answer would be?

    Now, for the record, I'm not in any way saying it's reflective of Irish culture. But it's just a demonstration of how you can pick and choose the way you reflect a culture. The post I responded to spoke of love for Aussie beach culture, while ignoring the fact that Brazil (a country from which we have a sizeable migrant population) also has a great beach culture. It's hard not to notice a certain bias there — and seems like a very roundabout way of simply saying Aussie migrants would be preferable to Brazilians. So why can't people just say that, and spare us all the convenient references to "beach culture"?

    And of course there are countries where there are higher crime rates. This is almost always correlated to poverty and deprivation. The fact those countries tend to be poorer and have more deprived areas is the very reason for which emigrants wish to leave. If things were great in their countries, they would be less inclined to leave, right? Your policy — if you put it under the harsh light of how things would work in reality — would boil down to a system where people from very deprived places or backgrounds are refused because they would be deemed as coming from a culturally incompatible place. And of course, that logic becomes awkward if you apply it to us leaving too — "oh sorry, I see you're coming from a really rough crime-ridden part of Dublin so you're probably culturally incompatible so f**k off".



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,116 ✭✭✭lmao10


    As has been said, certain areas of cities in Ireland have higher crime rates. I don't need to name them. You can't use places like those to tarnish all of the Irish or ban all Irish from emigrating into countries.



  • Registered Users Posts: 156 ✭✭Nosler


    Maybe the core value that immigrants need to integrate into ireland is respecting the secular democratic tradition of the West....

    Other core values are respecting women and the lgbt community etc.....

    I'll be honest, I think secular democracies are just better than any other system. It is a key component of building a prosperous stable country.



  • Registered Users Posts: 156 ✭✭Nosler


    Maybe the reason that some countries have high crime rates is because they have a violent culture?

    I've met poor people that dont commit crime....



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,762 ✭✭✭ArthurDayne


    I don't understand the point you are making here. There seems to be an implication in your posts that Western immigration policy is bad, in terms of who gets allowed in, but you're also contorting around to say how great the West is. So which is it?

    If Western immigration policy is so bad then why is the West, with its high immigration, so good? And if immigration is such a threat to the secular order, then why are the Western countries more secular than they were even 50 years ago?

    Ireland is a more secular country now than it was in the 1980s — it also has more immigrants now and indeed the children of immigrants. That seems odd. I would have thought all those migrants would have cast us back to the Dark Ages by now.

    Dare I say that the Western liberal secular order owes much of its ideas of tolerance for others from the very fact that it has experienced more cultural interfacing via immigration which has fed a healthier attitude towards appreciating and respecting others in way that maximizes the ability of people from different cultures and background to succeed and prosper ?



  • Registered Users Posts: 41,062 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    It always amuses me how faux concern for women and LGBT people pops up from people who never gave a crap before. And often it's even coming mysogynistically too as if they own women.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 1,116 ✭✭✭lmao10


    Most of the far right loons don't really care about womens issues unless they can use it against immigrants and are definitely against the lgbt community, unless of course they can use them against immigrants.

    Very very transparent.



  • Registered Users Posts: 34,087 ✭✭✭✭The_Kew_Tour


    That’s a fair point.

    However you also get other side and people say we should show “compassion (another buzz word) and be caring”

    most of these people have as much compassion as a hungry Croc in the Florida Everglades. Do as I say, not as I do.

    but your right to suggest your point. I have seen the small minority of far right (could call them much worse) who care about topics you discussed and it’s also cringe.



  • Registered Users Posts: 156 ✭✭Nosler


    I think western secular democracies are the best places to live despite their immigration policies....

    People literally risk their lifes to get into Europe... does that not indicate the West is a better place to live?

    Europe was taking massive leaps towards "liberal secular order" before mass immigration. The working man has had the vote for the last century? we've had a welfare state and public healthcare for a century? Homosexuality has been legal for 50 years? Women have had equality for decades?

    If you think "cultural interfacing" is so good, could you explain why the most multicultural areas in europe are also the poorest and most violent? If your theory was correct people would be desperate to live in places like Tower Hamlets or Malmo?



  • Registered Users Posts: 156 ✭✭Nosler


    When I stayed in the Middle East my housemate was a Palestinian and he was homosexual.

    I didnt judge him.... perhaps you should stop judging people as well?



  • Registered Users Posts: 41,062 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Lol.... my best friend is gay...... heard it all before.... who even actually uses the word homosexual 🙄 its almost never LGBTQ+ allies anyway.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,762 ✭✭✭ArthurDayne


    Again, your argument is just so frustratingly self defeating. Yes, people literally risk their lives to get to Western Europe because it's great — do you not see how this actually damages the point you are trying to make? If people are queueing up to get into the countries where mass immigration is supposedly ruining everything, why aren't they queueing up to get into all those culturally and ethnically homogenous countries that you would seemingly aspire our demographics to mimic ?

    The logical endpoint of your argument would entail that the countries where there has been "mass immigration" would have experienced backsliding in liberal values. In a way, it's almost hilarious how Right-leaning commentary tells us that immigration is destroying the liberal secular democracy of Europe — yet they also bemoan the fact that liberalism has continued unabated into a new era of a more vocal transgender community. It's a weird contradictory fear-stoking argument that the countries with immigration are degrading into the Middle Ages but are also becoming way too liberal.

    And of course you'd be selective in the "who would ever want to live there?" question. Yeah, who would want to live in London at all like? Who would want to live in the many multicultural urban neighbourhoods all over the West which aren't the Go-To tick-the-box of specially selected areas that are wheeled out time and time again.

    Ya know, for a continent that is seemingly being utterly destroyed by mass immigration — you guys do only seem to ream off the same small list of examples time and time again. I guess it will be Molenbeek next week, then the Parisian banlieues, then back to Malmo the week after ....



  • Registered Users Posts: 156 ✭✭Nosler


    He wasnt my "best friend".

    There you go.. judging me because I used the word "homosexual".



  • Registered Users Posts: 156 ✭✭Nosler


    We have seen a "backsliding in liberal values".

    Some cultures consider women as second class citizens. Is that progressive? Or what about Charly Hebdo? You cool with people getting killed because of a cartoon?

    Your post still doesnt take away the fact that generally the most multicultural areas in europe are the most violent and poor. If multiculturalism was as good as you say these areas would be brilliant places to live? Surely all that "cultural interfacing" would have created a utopia?

    You look at the ethnic breakdown of the prison population and it's clear that some cultures commit far more crime than others.... would you like some evidence?



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    As a homosexual myself, he said nothing wrong. I appreciate his honesty and I respect his opinion.

    I'd like to think most people here think the same.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 272 ✭✭j2


    LGBTQ+ allies? Do you talk like that in real life?



Advertisement