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Reflection on the pandemic: questions about the authorities' response.

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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,842 ✭✭✭Don't Chute!


    Here we go again. Flailing around blaming the world and it’s mother for “ruining it for everyone”. We’ve heard this shite since the very start and it was just that, shite. The only people responsible for what’s happening in China are their “government” nobody else.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,546 ✭✭✭political analyst


    Why didn't the Irish authorities restrict the reopening of commerce in December 2020 to food takeaway service and hair and beauty care instead of also letting restaurants and gastro pubs have table service? Then the lockdown of early 2021 would have been much shorter.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,738 ✭✭✭PommieBast


    The government had backed itself into a corner with the whole six weeks to save xmas late-2020 lockdown. Public goodwill was running on empty by this point.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,546 ✭✭✭political analyst


    The lack of public goodwill didn't seem to matter when the government decided to have a lockdown after Christmas until May. On what evidence did NPHET base their recommendations for the restrictions of January to May in 2021?

    Lack of table service at restaurants indefinitely from November 2020 was something I could have lived with as long as I could go to the barber's shop!



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,546 ✭✭✭political analyst


    There have been still so many cases in China because the Chinese vaccines were crap.



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  • Posts: 31,118 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    It's not like the western ones were any more effective was it, millions infected despite being vaxxed to the max!



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,546 ✭✭✭political analyst


    The Western ones prevented serious illness in the vast majority of cases of people who had Covid after being vaccinated.



  • Registered Users Posts: 989 ✭✭✭Stormyteacup


    ’So many cases’? They have an extremely low number of cases for a population of 1.4 billion people, and extremely low vaccine uptake in comparison to Europe. There is absolutely no logical reason to tie their vaccine to cases. And vaccines deployed in Europe have little effect on transmission of Omicron.



  • Registered Users Posts: 989 ✭✭✭Stormyteacup


    Where’s the evidence to show China is experiencing high numbers of serious illness post vaccination in comparison to Europe from Omicron? We are reporting 50 covid deaths a week currently, for a population of 4.5 million, what’s China reporting at the moment?



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,546 ✭✭✭political analyst


    But the Western vaccines have reduced the likelihood of coronavirus causing serious illness, i.e. fewer hospital admissions.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,546 ✭✭✭political analyst


    That's the impression I've got from coverage of the protests that are taking place in China. Do you really think that the Chinese government can be relied upon to be honest about the number of Covid cases that it has?!



  • Registered Users Posts: 989 ✭✭✭Stormyteacup


    Yes but where is the evidence that China are experiencing higher hospital admissions? My interpretation of the coverage of protests from China is that some of people believe the restrictions they are living under are too harsh and damaging.

    There’s every reason to believe the Chinese government are not reliably reporting covid stats, particularly cases, but when their policy is zero covid, would they not want their citizens in fear of health service collapse and a large death toll on account of covid, rather than a low reported death toll and little indication of hospitals under pressure?



  • Registered Users Posts: 16,619 ✭✭✭✭astrofool


    China's vaccine uptake was over 90% using their traditional (similar process to the flu or polio vaccines) based vaccine from sinopharm/vac.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I don’t think you can just pick your government regulations “à la carte”. In a twisted way I have more respect for respect for a non-conformer (translation = selfish) like you who has opposed the government recommended injections and advice (= laws) from the start than I do for these Johnny-come-lately anti-vaxxers. I see another reply questioning, 2 years on, the efficacy of the “Chinese” vaccine - as if this is a basis not to follow the rule of law. Whether it’s Irish law, English , Austrian or Chinese the nation (and consequently the world) either pulls together to get out of this pandemic or we don’t. Disappointing to see normally reliable sources like the guardian giving succour to these protests for what can only be political reasons. What next ? An article in The Irish Times by Fintan O’ Toole on the importance of doing your own research ?



  • Posts: 31,118 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    This is something that no one can prove (easy to claim and "prove" they worked) conclusively, due to the fact that natural immunity was spreading through the population at a rate every bit as fast as the vaccination rollout, so therefore it is more likely that the reductions in serious illness was due to natural immunity as well as of course the fact that the virus changed and become far less dangerous.

    Also it is important to remember that the vaccines were developed for a variant of the virus that was already superseded by the time it was released, thus severely weakening its effectiveness.



  • Registered Users Posts: 29,549 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    "More than likely". No it isn't.

    Study after study has shown that the vaccines provide protection, without previous infection, versus Omicron and variants for which they were not developed for.

    Your statement is false and without foundation, and is disproven by multiple studies including this one.

    To make a statement of fact that the vaccine is therefore rendered useless, is simply medical misinformation.

    Previous infection alone, BNT162b2 vaccination alone, and hybrid immunity all showed strong effectiveness (>70%) against severe, critical, or fatal Covid-19 due to BA.2 infection.


    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,842 ✭✭✭Don't Chute!


    I’m fully vaccinated and boosted. If you can find any anti-vaxxer posts by me could you please show me them? My problem is with people like you who from the start have been blaming everyone from the Chelteham crowd to two year olds not wearing masks instead of minding their own fcuking business.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    In that case you’re even worse than the anti-vaxxers. At least they had to suffer a bit for their beliefs. You just want follow the rules when it suits you. Taking the vaccine because it’s too restrictive or your lifestyle not to. But happy to take a few potshots and another country’s vaccine and restrictions. What about Austria. Were you having a go at them during the lockdown too ?



  • Registered Users Posts: 989 ✭✭✭Stormyteacup


    You speak of laws as though those that make legislation are infallible. They are not, they are human. There are numerous bad laws and bad policies that have been changed or removed, over time.

    The UK high court ruled earlier this year that their government policy of removing elderly from hospitals to nursing homes with no isolation period and no testing was wrong. Same as Irish policy but different jurisdictions obviously, so no bearing here, but the point is that the court found government policy-makers to be in the wrong.

    A universal and unquestioning obsequiousness towards any government policy and lawmaking is bizarre.

    Hong Kong’s heath system was overwhelmed with an exit wave, but what else was going to happen with a policy that required every positive case to be admitted to hospital? Is that a good policy? China has painted itself into a corner and needs to radically rethink its strategy - this is what the protests are telling the authorities, the conditions they are living under are ridiculous; insufficient basics available while locked down, non-covid serious medical issues untreated, severe restrictions on movement and ability to earn a living.

    But ‘just follow the rules’ tho.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,546 ✭✭✭political analyst


    The 'herd immunity' approach suggested in the Great Barrington Declaration wouldn't have worked because immunity acquired upon recovery from Covid doesn't last long. I read somewhere that the Western vaccines leave a genetic 'memory' that makes subsequent infections with coronavirus less likely to cause serious illness.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 989 ✭✭✭Stormyteacup


    Posted this earlier this year but worth a bump. Remember there were a lot of politicians against vaccination pass with no test, and against legislation with no due diligence, and they weren’t all crackpots and easily discredited. IMO there was wrong legislation enacted during Covid, and it should be analysed and brought into the light for future benefit.




  • Registered Users Posts: 4,546 ✭✭✭political analyst


    Did the government not think in late 2020 that the public could have done without Gaelic matches for one year if it meant that businesses and schools could have fully opened?!



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,842 ✭✭✭Don't Chute!


    I honestly don’t know what you are talking about here.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I’m not saying all laws are infallible - not at all. Just that you can’t pick and choose which ones you obey. I don’t know if obeying the law qualifies as “a universal and obsequiousness” approach to it ? If it’s “ok” to break the law then we just have anarchy and ultimately mob rule. These elderly Chinese antivaxxers need to get that into their heads. And we should be supporting the rule of law (no set of laws are going to be perfect) and not supporting these protests. We saw what these people are like in Grafton Street etc two years ago…



  • Registered Users Posts: 827 ✭✭✭farmingquestion


    Authorities response was embarrassing looking back.

    Testing for covid in everyone with symptoms, stupid rules on lockdowns (must have a meal in a pub) etc will age badly.

    Like it was said at the time, it is and was just a flu that can harm older people.

    We locked down the whole economy, cancelled cancer screenings etc. just to save old people who'll die in a few years anyways.



  • Posts: 31,118 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Harsh, insensitive, but true! (I'm referring to the last line, the rest is just true)



  • Registered Users Posts: 29,549 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    The reason for testing everyone was for tracking spread.

    It was never just a flu. It was both more infectious and more severe. This was also said at the time and unlike your remarks, was true.

    So do you disagree with all lockdown rules, or just the bit where you had to have a meal in a pub??? The measures had the intent to reduce spread and the R factor of the virus. We weren't the only country to have rules distinguishing bars versus dining restaurants.

    Old peoples lives have value too. Important as it was to protect them, it was never just about protecting 80 somethings. It was about ensuring the health service had capacity to treat the people with severe covid who could pull through with hospital care, the people with decades ahead of them and manageable conditions. And all the other people needing hospital treatment.

    How were these screenings to be staffed during the pandemic? How were people attending them to be protected?

    We did not lock down the "whole economy". Another utterly false statement without qualification or foundation.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,893 ✭✭✭deirdremf


    True, but "Xmas had been saved", i.e. the goods had been sold. A huge proportion of annual sales are made in the Xmas period. Probably many smaller businesses survived thanks to that decision by the government.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,893 ✭✭✭deirdremf


    The Chinese government may be lying about this. I feel this is a fair point - but ...

    Can you be sure our government hasn't lied to us?



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,893 ✭✭✭deirdremf


    But was tracking ever carried out properly? And whatever about the initial efforts, it went by the wayside fairly soon, unfortunately.



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