Smart heating timer/thermostat with no subscription cost?

MichaelR · 21-11-2022 07:43PM #1

Hello,

We have an oil heating system with a single zone. More exactly, we have a bi-fuel heating system, as there is also a back boiler stove with a separate pump on the same pipes; the two heating sources can not be operated at the same time as the pumps run in different directions. As I understand this arrangement precludes any change to multiple zones, so for controlling the oil heating, we only ever have the need for a simple on-off switch.

The question is what controls the switch. Originally, we had a mechanical timer with a simple thermostat.

About five years ago we had a Hub Controller installed for free under some grant the installer had. The Hub Controller allows programming of heating times for each day of the week by the mobile app and is also a thermostat; when the heating is on is it limited by the thermostat. This did make things much better, what with the "boost" feature (run the system for the next hour, subject to thermostat, without affecting programming). However, the manufacturer now lost their grant and want us to pay a subscription fee to continue. Their current offer is something like 5.50 a month.

Ideally I'd like to replace the Hub Controller with a smart thermostat that I can program (ideally from a smartphone./computer) and that has a boost feature, but that does not require a subscription fee.

The Google Nest thermostat costs a lot. There is one on sale at Screwfix but it seems to be for systems with separate hot water controls; also, it kinda keeps me dependent on the Google account staying free. Also, it does not even seem to have the Boost feature?

Another option I was thinking of is the Hive Active. (The Hive Mini does not seem to have a Boost control on the thermostat which is critical; the Active does). However, I could not work out what features of a Hive require a subscription. Can I program it from the smartphone at all without a subscription?

I would also gladly take recommendations of other suitable controllers.

L1011 · 21-11-2022 07:46PM

Nest is entirely temperature based, it does not do boost as an idea. You do not need to use the hot water side; I use both in different houses - the hot water side is actually turned off by default.

Tree · 21-11-2022 08:24PM

Check out the home heating automation thread for more information than you'll ever need https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2057758281/home-heating-automation#latest

(also, I like Wiser cause they do local polling in HA, but that's me and internet of poop not being on good terms. Also, it comes in a single channel version though I don't think you save much with it vs a 2 channel one)

Banjo Carney · 24-11-2022 07:55PM

Hi I too have the hub controller it does what I need it to do though it would be more convenient if it worked with Google assistant.

Now that they are asking for a subscription I may swap it out for the hive which will work with Google assistant.

Am I right in saying that the hive receiver would be wired in where the hub controller is now. Also the hub controller only has two wires going into it the hive has more so how do I go about this. Thanks in advance.

MichaelR · 25-11-2022 01:44AM

@Tree thanks a lot, I will take a good look at the thread though not sure I can make it through the 134 pages :)

I did now look at the Wiser kit and Amazon are having a sale of it, Screwfix also have it but far more expensive. Can you tell me more about how Wiser does local polling? And yeah I see that one can do a Boost from a wireless thermostat with Wiser, and apparently WIser does not have subscription services at all which is good.

Another make I already see in the thread is Tado.

25-11-2022 10:41AM

I've the ember system installed, there are no fees after installation. Its handy that you can link it up to smart speakers so you can turn on the heating without having to press a button or turn it on when driving home by asking the phone to do so.

enfant terrible · 25-11-2022 10:50AM

I switch out my old timer switch for a Netatmo thermostat years ago and it works great.

No boost function, I just time it to come on whenever I want, installation was simple too about 30 minutes.

https://shop.netatmo.com/en-eu/energy/individual-boiler/thermostat

Tree · 25-11-2022 06:14PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119918557#Comment_119918557

The Home Assistant integration uses local polling. Its app is still cloud based. I'm pretty happy with it.

Maybe start five pages back rather than at the start, and you can see what this months fashion is :)

MichaelR · 25-11-2022 07:01PM

Aha - so there is integration with an OPEN SOURCE management platform. Presumably, scriptable/command line manageable. Something I actually asked Hub Controller for a few years ago, they mentioned working on it, nothing came out of it.

I checked and Home Assistant does have Hive integration, but it relies on the Hive cloud services, while the Wiser integration works locally - this means I can have Wiser properly managed and programmed even if the Wiser cloud integration comes down or becomes subscription-only.

Just to be sure: could you please confirm if Wiser Home Assistant integration would allow me to program the daily schedule, completely bypassing the need for the Wiser cloud app if necessary? Because if the answer is yes, this is the killer feature and I still have time to get the Wiser single-channel starter kit off Amazon on Black Friday sale.

Tree · 25-11-2022 07:17PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119921363#Comment_119921363

Yup! In fact, it's way easier to manage schedules in HA than in the app. And there's at least one person from Wiser unofficially hanging out in the HA community discussion about the integration...

The app is still useful for connecting up your system, but after that you never need to look at it again. Do consider getting a smart plug if you have concrete walls, they act as a zigbee booster in case you don't get good signal.

MichaelR · 25-11-2022 09:17PM

You mean the wi fi signal? I already got a booster for my wi fi that uses powerline networking. (And hangs sometimes but that is a completely separate discussion).

Tree · 25-11-2022 10:55PM

The zigbee signal, all the components talk to the hub over zigbee.

MichaelR · 26-11-2022 03:12AM

Ah, gotcha. I probably will just have the thermostat in the same room as the receiver so no worries about walls.

MichaelR · 30-11-2022 01:56PM

@Tree so I now have the Wiser, came in today from Amazon. It says there must be a 3 amps fuse on the connection, though, and my heating is on a standard fuse and I'm not going into the main fusebox and would like to avoid an electrician callout. I could install a fuse next to the Wiser but what kind of fuse box can I get for it? Or should I just suck it up and get an elecrtrician?

Wearb · 30-11-2022 02:30PM

Standard fuse.????

Oil should be on a 5A fuse. This is usually achieved through a switched /fused spur.

You most likely will get away with a 3 amp fuse on your system, but if it blows, then you'll need to up it to 5A. It's up to you if you want to run your Wiser on a 5a fuse, but if it's only rated for 3a, I'd contact them about using it on a 5a fuse.

MichaelR · 30-11-2022 04:41PM

I checked things out, it seems that thr oil is on the same spur as the immersion. This wiring is probably from the 90s and I would not want to do a full rewire. The simplest option appears to be placing a 3/5 amp fuse right there next to the Wiser - the real question is how to do it (or going for an electrician, which I am also exploring).

Aquos76 · 01-12-2022 10:36PM

Sorry to hijack the thread guys and gals, I currently have a climote, have it about 5 years, anyway it works well however I am on the lookout for a device which will allow me set different parameters, for example, if the temp of the house drops below 18c during the day when there's no one at home, then the heading comes on to get house back up to 18c but in the evenings or early morning I would need the temp set to 20c. I can change the temp on the climote ok, but it would be great if i could prog particular temps and time slots together, does this feature exist on any device?

cruizer101 · 02-12-2022 10:55AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119946809#Comment_119946809

I thought most smart heating timers will allow you to do that, I'm surprised climote doesn't tbh.

I've drayton wiser and it allows me to set a schedule for each day with different periods at different temps. So I have it come on at 6am to 8am @ 19C, then drops to 17 for most of day no real need to heat but don't want it getting too cold, then 4:30 goes up to 20c til 10pm, then back to 17 for the night.

That can schedule can be varied for every day, I have the same M-F, then different at weekends.

Also you can have TRV for individual rooms, and specify a full temperature profile for them.

MichaelR · 03-12-2022 12:55AM

I got the Wiser installed by an electrician. Of course the Hub Controller makes claims about saving energy but I really am not sure how they could save any compared to another smart programmable thermostat, while the wired nature of their thermostat meant a suboptimal location and programming the app was not a pleasure. With the Wiser, I placed the wireless thermostat differently and the programming was easier (no precision taps and no need to repeat for every weekday - one can copy from one day to another). And this before I even got to the open source integration, which the Hub Controller does not have, despite me asking about an API a few years ago.

On the other hand, I ended up spending circa 185 Euro to replace it, which would have paid for Hub Controller service for about 3 years. I thought I could do a self-install. I couldn't, because of the fuse requirement. Lesson learned: read the installation guide carefully BEFORE buying something.

On the third hand, the installation I paid for also included getting a socket plus plug on the way to the boiler, which means I can power the boiler (not the Wiser, just the boiler) from some emergency source in case of a blackout. This might make a significant difference.

Smart heating timer/thermostat with no subscription cost?

Comments