Ukraine (Mod Note & Threadbanned Users in OP)

jmreire · 26-11-2022 6:56pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119865299#Comment_119865299

Undoubtedly and great for Ukraine!!! Congratulations and Well Done!!! Fantastic result!! Slava Ukraine. Now we wait and see the reception the defeated Russians will get when they return to Ruzzia.

jmreire · 26-11-2022 7:17pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119876248#Comment_119876248

No pixelburp, its not like ours, not even remotely. Winter is winter in that part of the world, -20 or lower is not unknown, and whatever bit of comfort (I know, I know, the Ukrainians did not allow them much, and they were not exactly given much comfort either by the Kremlin) they might have had in the summer, what they are facing now will be unimaginably worse. War in winter is horrific even for well-equipped soldiers. Touch bare metal with your bare hands, and you stick to it, and there are times when you will have to touch it because you cannot wear gloves. Unless you have special winter grade diesel, it will gel and clog up the whole fuel system. When it does that, good luck getting it going again,,,and you will not be able to wear gloves while you are working on it.

30-11-2022 12:05pm

Looks like at least temporarily. We were told the truth about the Ukrainian military casualties. Although the EU are now doing my best to try and scrub this from the internet. Thankfully somebody grabbed it before it was taken down.

https://twitter.com/thenobodyz/status/1597895930165878786?t=WNNClOcp1W9YRqiKyeIXBQ&s=19

"100,000 military offices have been killed so far"

Fighting Tao · 30-11-2022 12:11pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119938897#Comment_119938897

Or maybe it was an erroneous figure. Unfortunately it’s one that Russian supporters are happy to push when they don’t know the facts.

odyssey06 · 30-11-2022 12:12pm

That might be the true figure, we don't know. It could have meant to say 100,000 casualties. Or maybe it was put in to emphasise the stakes and isn't based on real figures from Ukraine.

One thing for sure, don't hold your breath on ever being told the truth about Russian military casualties. Do you want to be "told the truth" about that?

Podge_irl · 30-11-2022 2:54pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119938927#Comment_119938927

Fundamentally 100,000 military officers have been killed is simply a false statement. Its impossible.

Maybe it was supposed to be 100,000 soldiers killed, maybe 100,000 casualties (killed/wounded/missing), maybe the 100,000 figure itself is even wrong. What we do know is that the statement as given is definitely incorrect, so it being removed is not all that surprising.

Sam Russell · 30-11-2022 4:35pm

What is also believable (if that figure is believable) is that the Russian losses would be quite a lot greater.

pixelburp · 02-12-2022 11:58am

Following up to this, official Ukrainian sources now say the number of casualties is between 10 and 13 thousand. So prior stats a bit of a typo. Per the Guardian:

Up to 13,000 Ukrainian soldiers killed, Zelenskiy aide reveals

Ukraine’s armed forces have lost somewhere between 10,000 and 13,000 soldiers so far in the war against Russia, presidential adviser Mykhailo Podolyak told a Ukrainian television network on Thursday.

We have official figures from the general staff, we have official figures from the top command, and they amount to [between] 10,000 and 12,500 to 13,000 killed,” Podolyak told the Kanal 24 channel.

Zelenskiy would make the official data public “when the right moment comes”, he added.

Top US general Mark Milley last month said more than 100,000 Russian military personnel have been killed or wounded in Ukraine, with Kyiv’s forces likely suffering similar casualties.

Those figures - which could not be independently confirmed - are the most precise to date from the US government.

02-12-2022 1:23pm

After the whole fiasco about the missile hitting Poland and Ukraine still denying it's one of their missiles how could anybody believe any figures that they put out.

Thanks to Ursula. We know now that the figure of military losses is 100,000 or greater I see above the Ukrainian general staff may have forgot to add a zero onto the end of their figures.

Jinglejangle69 · 02-12-2022 1:25pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119948343#Comment_119948343

So you reckon a million casualties for Ukraine?

02-12-2022 1:37pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119948352#Comment_119948352

Well, I wouldn't go as far as saying a million but it certainly greater than the figures that Ukraine are reporting, as I said before after the whole situation with the missiles hitting Poland. I don't understand why anybody would believe what the Ukrainians say.

jmreire · 02-12-2022 2:01pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119948414#Comment_119948414

I'll tell you one thing Adversarial, whatever I'd believe from the Ukrainian side, I'd believe absolutely nothing from the Russian's. They are one big factory of lies, and the greatest liar of them all is? The Big Boss himself, Putin. They cannot tell their own people the truth about what is happening in Ukraine, why? Because they dare not.

02-12-2022 2:05pm

So we can agree then that in a war both sides lie and that they are as bad as each other.

Jinglejangle69 · 02-12-2022 2:08pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119948539#Comment_119948539

No we can’t agree both sides are as bad as each other for various reasons even my 5 year old daughter would understand.

pixelburp · 02-12-2022 2:18pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119948547#Comment_119948547

For context this user flounced away the last time they tried the moral absolutism angle to question the Ukrainian position, and were called out on it. Funny to see it happen again, the eagerness to believe a deleted tweet than actual sources. A now deleted tweet MUST be taken as truth, but an open estimation from 1st party sources must be a lie. Kinda hypocritical more than anything

I daresay Ukrainian casualties are higher, especially when you factor in the many murders in russian territory still to be assessed and tabulated. It's a fluctuating front line but as before there's no point to this angle beyond the aforementioned Moral Absolutism for the sake of some Both Sides superiority, usually trying to criticise Ukraine for something. It's all a bit Mick Wallace

Notmything · 02-12-2022 2:44pm

Casualties covers killed, wounded, missing, and taken prisoner. Sometimes it can be taken to mean killed only.

I saw a tweet which suggested it might be 100,000 total casualties if which 13,000 are fatalities. This wouldn't be that much of a stretch,imo, given the nature of some of the combat seen to date.

The 100,000 figure may also include non-combattants as well but unlikely.

02-12-2022 2:56pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119948586#Comment_119948586

Nice to see that somebody missed me unfortunately I've been busy at work recently so haven't had time to spend on forums. However things have quietened down now, unfortunately, we're not all lucky enough to have comfortable office jobs where we can spend the majority of our time pretending to work and arguing with people online.

Just to be clear, Ursula clearly said in her video address that Ukraine has sustained 100,000 military deaths with a further 20,000 civilian casualties, if we assume the statistic from world war 2 holds true that every soldier's death leads to three more being injured then that would put Ukraine's total casualties including injured at 400,000 which is a staggeringly high number and vastly more than what the Ukrainians are claiming.

Field east · 02-12-2022 3:02pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119948707#Comment_119948707

we are comparing apples with oranges I think re casualties on both sides. Why this? Well, the Ru are firing at everything that’ moves’ and the more people around themselves targets the better- be it power lines , shopping centres, business parks, hosphitals , etc etc, etc.

The Ukr aRe firing exclusively at Ru military targets and it is almost exclusively soldiers that are injured / killed. So the Russians have a big advantage in the opportunity to kill / injure UKranians WHEREAS the numbers on the Russian side consist of injured /killed Ru soldiers.

A more correct way to report these figs would be as follows:-

no Ru soldiers killed

no Ru soldiers injured

no Ukr soldiers killed

no Ukr soldiers injured

no Ukr citizens killed

no Ukr citizens injured

Notmything · 02-12-2022 6:59pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119948833#Comment_119948833

Not comparing anything. I would take reported casualties by both sides with a pinch of salt.

I merely offered a possible reason for the different figures.

Fwiw I have absolutely no faith that the figure of 100,000 Ukrainian military deaths is accurate or remotely close to the real figure.

Nody · 02-12-2022 9:34pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119948707#Comment_119948707

The problem with the 100k figure which of course Adversarial has not even considered is that the Ukrainian army is roughly 200k soldiers which means he's trying to claim half the Ukrainian army has been killed yet are still not only holding back the Russian forces (who claim just below 6k dead soldiers to date but yet needs over 300k new soldiers...) but actually are winning the ground war. Talk about Superhuman soldiers there vs. the pure trash from Russia... Of course Ukraine already stated back in September that they had lost around 10k soldiers with 40k wounded but hey, let's go with 100k instead now as the true figure because it once again only shows the superiority of Ukrainian fighters over the Russian drunk orcs who can't even win after killing half the Ukrainian army (let alone the amount wounded which would be higher still), hilariously how poor they are at fighting.

Gatling · 02-12-2022 9:46pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119948343#Comment_119948343

But you don't know,

The eu came out and said they were outside parties estimations ,

Meanwhile Russian losses are around 90,000 and rapidly increasing daily

pixelburp · 05-12-2022 8:49pm

Unconfirmed but perhaps this was inevitable: reports that Ukraine used drones to strike airbases in Russia itself, specifically those purported to house the bombers used for the terror attacks on Kyiv et al.

Makes sense, if true. We're hitting winter proper and while the increased defences appear to be working, reducing the Russian ability to terrorise and freeze the civilian population in the first place has to be a goal worth aiming for.

I had said Ukraine would be mad to strike Russia proper, that it would erode the goodwill pronto - but I had never imagined Russia would take such a vicious turn; presumably the intel was solid that these were the airbases from which the civilian assaults were launched - thus entirely legitimate.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/dec/05/explosions-russia-airbases-far-from-ukraine-frontline-bombers

Pete_Cavan · 06-12-2022 8:59am

Ukraine has hit military targets in Russia just over the border before, perhaps only fuel stores, but never that far into Russia. Obviously the Russians consider the bridge in Crimea to be Russian. The Ukrainias nprobably feeling more confident now as their defences improve and Russia depletes its missile stocks. If it was a missile from Ukraine, they must have quietly received new long range systems.

It will be interesting to see the reaction, particularly if Ukraine have the ability to hit targets that far into Russia. Presumably Russia will have to devote more resources to homeland defence and may have to spread their fleet around to limit potential losses, so more disruption and inefficiency on top of what they have lost.

jmreire · 06-12-2022 9:23am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119961051#Comment_119961051

Nato's position was always to prevent an attack on Russia proper, using NATO weapons, and thus escalating the conflict to WW3, which is understandable (even if the urge to lash out at Russia for its monstrous attack on civilians in Ukraine is almost irresistible) but if these Ukrainian attacks on Russian airports were carried out using Ukrainian produced drone's or missiles etc. Thats not NATO's problem, or is it?

Pete_Cavan · 06-12-2022 11:02am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119962383#Comment_119962383

WW3 is not a consideration. Russia is getting beaten by Ukraine with a portion of the West's weapons, they wouldn't last pissing time against the West and all of their weapons. Nobody would side with Russia. The only thing Russia has is the threat of nuclear weapons but their systems are unlikely to be getting adequate maintenance and the Russian long range missiles are being used as target practice for air defence systems so they have limited ability to deliver them.

Ukraine has hit several targets in Russia, preventing that or fear of WW3 are not concerns for NATO.

Sam Russell · 06-12-2022 12:26pm

The world came close to nuclear war in the 1962 Cuba missile stand off.

Khrushchev blinked and stopped the ships carrying the missiles on the line declared by Kennedy. Crisis averted.

Would Putin blink?

06-12-2022 12:41pm

Krushchev didn't blink instead. What happened was diplomats worked in the background to secure a deal where the US would remove its nuclear missiles from Russia's border in Turkey and The Soviet Union would remove its nuclear missiles from Turkey.

It was a mutually beneficial agreement that at the time looked like a US victory.

Sam Russell · 06-12-2022 1:03pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119963027#Comment_119963027

Well, yes.

There was a story - might be true - the Robert Kennedy took the Russian Ambassador to the USA by the tie and drew him eyeball to eyeball and said 'Do not be mistaken. We are not bluffing!' or words to that effect. Now something caused the Russian ships to stop on that line - and a deal was worked out.

If that is true - then who blinked?

timmyntc · 06-12-2022 1:40pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119950592#Comment_119950592

I wouldnt believe adversarials claims of 400k casualties (way over exaggerated), but just to point out in Summer of this year the Ukrainian Defence minister claimed they were building up a million man army. There's no way they only have 200k soldiers defending Ukraine. Not a hope.

“We’re people of the free world and with a real sense of justice and liberty. We have approximately 700,000 in the armed forces and when you add the national guard, police, border guard, we are around a million strong.”

https://archive.ph/20220710213957/https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/ukraine-has-one-million-ready-for-fightback-to-recapture-south-3rhkrhstf#selection-1101.0-1101.219

jmreire · 08-12-2022 10:29pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119962681#Comment_119962681

Yet they ( NATO / US) continually deny Ukraine the weapons that could reach deep into Russia? We are hearing now that even the HIMARS are/ shells etc. are deliberately range limited. Why is that, if not fear of the war escalating to WW3 as they claim themselves ??

Ukraine (Mod Note & Threadbanned Users in OP)

Comments