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What are your views on Multiculturalism in Ireland? - Threadbanned User List in OP

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  • Registered Users Posts: 41,062 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Noone is handing out passports. You are talking nonsense.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,841 ✭✭✭TomTomTim


    Funding them is one thing, it goes well beyond that in Ireland though. I'm of the view that the state uses them as a false consensus for things they want to push anyway.

    Something happens, NGOs react demanding X, then either Leo or Martin will say: "there's a clear demand for X", then X becomes legislation that passes without any dissent at all. Maybe I'm giving them too much credit, and it's the hand of the NGO that is the sole shaper of these policies, but if that's the case then it's even worse, as it means that the state has essentially been subverted by unelected groups, which doesn't match any definition of democracy that you'll find. If we lived in a honest society, it would considered completly anti democratic, and if we had a fair media, it would be pointed to regularly. We have none of those things though, so we're meant to just tolerate our undemocratic "democracy". Question any of these things, especially as a public figure, and you'll be labelled as a radical, often by the worst radicals in society.

    “The man who lies to himself can be more easily offended than anyone else. You know it is sometimes very pleasant to take offense, isn't it? A man may know that nobody has insulted him, but that he has invented the insult for himself, has lied and exaggerated to make it picturesque, has caught at a word and made a mountain out of a molehill--he knows that himself, yet he will be the first to take offense, and will revel in his resentment till he feels great pleasure in it.”- ― Fyodor Dostoevsky, The Brothers Karamazov




  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    That's a lot of conspiracy theories for 1 post



  • Registered Users Posts: 156 ✭✭Nosler


    Not one person disputes that *some* migration is a good thing.

    However, does anyone really think that Roma Gypsies are a net benefit to Ireland?



  • Registered Users Posts: 156 ✭✭Nosler


    Perhaps you could maybe do some research?

    We all know Irish passports are handed out to various different nationalities.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,841 ✭✭✭TomTomTim


    There was literally one theory in that post, one you never tried to make an argument against likely because you can't.

    “The man who lies to himself can be more easily offended than anyone else. You know it is sometimes very pleasant to take offense, isn't it? A man may know that nobody has insulted him, but that he has invented the insult for himself, has lied and exaggerated to make it picturesque, has caught at a word and made a mountain out of a molehill--he knows that himself, yet he will be the first to take offense, and will revel in his resentment till he feels great pleasure in it.”- ― Fyodor Dostoevsky, The Brothers Karamazov




  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Can you outline the issue with the ethnic group you have called out?



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,186 ✭✭✭✭jmayo


    Talk about unadulterated muppetry.

    FFS.

    There was no big fooking increase of incoming migrants in the 70s and 80s.

    In the 1970s some Irish returned home from likes of UK, but by 80s some of them were leaving again.

    Jaysus fook the country was on it's knees, most of my leaving cert class in late 80s left if they didn't have a college to first go to, and after college most left as well.

    And laying the groundwork for Intel and big Pharma.

    WTF are blattering on about.

    The number of foreigners working in the multinationals here in the 70s and 80s was small and it was primarily the managers.

    It seems you were one of the few that seemed to live in a parallel cosmopolitan Ireland.

    You remind of that other poster around here who claimed we all had personal computers in the mid 80s.

    You think of your own personal little cossetted environment and extrapolate a whole different country to the one the rest of us fooking lived in.

    Oh and there was no such thing as Nissan Datsun.

    It was Datsun, and the parent company from 1981 onwards switched to using their own name Nissan on the cars.

    BTW the company in the last few years started using the name in markets like India, Russia for cheap cars.


    And as for the other poster here that labels most of the posters far right fascists because they found a couple of posts from a couple of posters that were probably promptly and rightfully banned.

    And no one, bar maybe the couple of exception posters, has ever claimed we should have absolutely no immigration.

    Most people want controlled immigration ala Australia.

    Talk about fooking jumping to conclusions, some here would be Olympic champions at it.

    I am not allowed discuss …



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Do you have some data to show the recent amnesty resulted in passports being given out?

    It absolutely starts people on a track to citizenship, but you are saying that passports are being given out already. Can you provide any evidence for that claim?



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,144 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    Nope. What has been posted - the latest in the last few days, though edited for obfuscation - has shown educated and skilled and legal migration has a positive effect. However nobody has called for that type of migration to stop. It's the chancers economy and welfare shopping showing up. That's the problem.

    Extremely high levels of unemployment, criminality and social problems. Much higher than other demographics. The stats are clear and are found throughout Europe. There are many reasons for this, including discrimination. However Travellers have similar problems and it's not as if we've solved that. If anything the schism has gotten worse. So yeah, let's add more of the same with extra cultural differences. That'll work out... We'll magically fix that too, along with magic houses and magic extra healthcare services for all.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Extremely high levels of unemployment, criminality and social problems. Much higher than other demographics. The stats are clear and are found throughout Europe. There are many reasons for this, including discrimination. However Travellers have similar problems and it's not as if we've solved that. If anything the schism has gotten worse. So yeah, let's add more of the same with extra cultural differences.

    So you want different immigration policies for Roma gypsies then?



  • Registered Users Posts: 41,062 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Do your own research.

    My point still stands. You are talking utter drivel.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,504 ✭✭✭✭Mad_maxx


    Encourage Irish people to have larger families



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,144 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    So you agree that Roma are a demographic with these issues? We're getting somewhere. Though I doubt it, you're as usual deflecting and fishing for some gotcha moment.

    I want the same policies for all. Examination of asylum claims, doubly so from safe countries. Immediate deportation for those who destroy identification on flights into Ireland. Removal of self deportation. You get served with deportation you're held until you're removed from the country. Examination of benefit to Ireland; educational status, criminal background, requirements for ability to support themselves for a period of time and so on. Reduction in social supports across the board. O'Gorman's nonsensical plan(ha) for turn key accomodation for non EU nationals. Build them for Irish and EU people first. What nations who have competent migration policies have.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]




  • Registered Users Posts: 480 ✭✭getoutadodge


    Spot on. Resorting to reason, common sense or even national self preservation by way of a counter argument is just pissing in the wind when dealing with a cultish belief system. In fact any discussion often provokes a visceral hatred. A frenzy. There may be no solution short of catastrophes such a WW1 or 11 to flush the system.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,144 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    Try reading the part right after the quoted. We don't.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Point to the policy that treats people different based on their ethnic group like you suggest for Roma gypsies



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,841 ✭✭✭TomTomTim


    I see that one of our doctors is in court for trying a kidnap a woman. You read headlines like that nowadays, and you don't even need to go chasing the story to see what's what, you just know, and you won't always be right, but you will most of the time.

    “The man who lies to himself can be more easily offended than anyone else. You know it is sometimes very pleasant to take offense, isn't it? A man may know that nobody has insulted him, but that he has invented the insult for himself, has lied and exaggerated to make it picturesque, has caught at a word and made a mountain out of a molehill--he knows that himself, yet he will be the first to take offense, and will revel in his resentment till he feels great pleasure in it.”- ― Fyodor Dostoevsky, The Brothers Karamazov




  • Registered Users Posts: 1,116 ✭✭✭lmao10


    Good thing we get to hear every time a migrant commits a crime because it gets posted in this thread and used to tar all migrants as criminals. Good thing that doesn't happen to Irish people.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,841 ✭✭✭TomTomTim


    We don't though as you well know. Posters are given free reign to link feel good stories, whereas the other side can't even post links. We're not even allowed to draw comparisons to other nations who are dealing with the exact same issues.

    “The man who lies to himself can be more easily offended than anyone else. You know it is sometimes very pleasant to take offense, isn't it? A man may know that nobody has insulted him, but that he has invented the insult for himself, has lied and exaggerated to make it picturesque, has caught at a word and made a mountain out of a molehill--he knows that himself, yet he will be the first to take offense, and will revel in his resentment till he feels great pleasure in it.”- ― Fyodor Dostoevsky, The Brothers Karamazov




  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Nobody is tarring all migrants as criminals. You're exaggerating, and it shows.

    What we're saying is that this country already has a crime problem. Let's not add to that problem by encouraging mass immigration where we cannot effectively vet those coming into the country and their potential backgrounds.

    At least with countries like Australia and the United States, you are barred from moving to the country for work if you have a criminal record.

    Look at how Sweden now has one of the greatest crime rates in the EU since they unquestioningly adopted mass immigration - especially from countries whose moral and social values do not align with our own.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    No place is perfect, but Ireland doesn't have much of a crime problem, its ranked the third safest country in the world

    Its actually getting safer

    Ireland rose three places to come third this year, according to the GPI, and also ranked behind Iceland as the second most peaceful country in Europe.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    The argument is that we need to preserve that record, as Sweden tried to do before they erroneously adopted multiculturalism.

    We don't need to repeat the mistakes that Sweden made.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,144 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    Nope. There's another example of your imagination taking flight. Or trying to spin things. Again. Point to where I said we should apply different policies. Hint; I didn't. You brought it up.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



  • Registered Users Posts: 156 ✭✭Nosler


    However when a migrant is a success it's all over the media and we're obviously meant to consider other migrants in the same light?

    We've already established some cultures commit more crime....



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,177 ✭✭✭Fandymo


    No, we have low crime and it’ll stay the same forever no matter who we import.


    That is the level of discourse we’re arguing against. It’d be comical if it wasn’t so serious.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Learning from mistakes and adapting is a smarter option. Being fearful of repeating others mistakes would paralyze the state if that was the prevailing attitude. Its possible to look at other examples, look at what worked, didn't work and adapt accordingly without excluding access

    Closing the door out of fear of something that may or may not happen is not a good policy for anything, regardless of the topic



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    That's what Sweden thought.

    Oh no, not the "closing the door" fallacy again...

    We don't want to close and padlock the front door. We want someone monitoring who enters and exits that door. We need to limit the numbers of people entering the door because of limited resources inside. And we need to ensure that bad people do not pass through that door.



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    we need to ensure that bad people do not pass through that door.

    Explain how that would work



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