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"Green" policies are destroying this country

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  • Registered Users Posts: 9,789 ✭✭✭antoinolachtnai


    By 2060, mix of wind, PV, chemical storage and nuclear I’d say. Depends on how the technologies develop really.



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,126 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    What`s to say that all three in Moneypoint would not trip out at the same time ?

    Last November two plants both tripped out within 5 seconds of each other, one in Dublin and on in Cork, resulting in a loss of 820 megawatts and I don`t recall hearing of that being "curtains" where the whole grid was brought to the point of collapse.

    If energy security is a concern for you then should we not be heeding the warnings from both Eirgrid and our own regulator on our energy security. Especially as we are not even in compliance with E.U. directives ?



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,789 ✭✭✭antoinolachtnai


    Yes we should most certainly do that. I don’t think there is any question that we didn’t heed ‘warnings’ in any case. What actually happened was that the two bodies you mentioned, amongst others arguably, somehow failed to deliver adequate security of supply.

    if the reason why all three MP units are unlikely to trip out together is not obvious to you then I don’t see any point in discussing it further.


    I’m afraid I don’t know the circumstances of the event you refer to.

    I referred to advice of an authoritative international agency. You then say they were wrong on the basis of an anecdote. This is a fun way to argue on the Internet but thankfully no one would try to run an actual national electricity grid on the basis of whataboutery



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Especially as we are not even in compliance with E.U. directives ?

    Really?

    When did the EU raise this issue?



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,126 ✭✭✭✭charlie14




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  • Registered Users Posts: 12,993 ✭✭✭✭JRant


    Don't, please just don't. We've only got past pages of circular arguments.

    "Well, yeah, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man"



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I made no assertion either way.

    My question was in relation to what the EU had to say about our compliance to EU regulations and when they raised this issue to the Irish government.

    They did raise it, yes?

    I am asking when as I'd like to know more about what they said and what the response was from the Irish government and how long ago this all happened so I can see if any progress has been made.



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,126 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    So as usual rather than answer a question you run around the place spouting your usual nonsense.

    I doubt very much if the Commissioner for the Regulation of Utilities (CRU) made up the claim of us not being in compliance with E.U. energy security directives, but if you feel she did then I`m sure if you contact her office she would not be long putting you straight as to whether she lied or not..



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,126 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    No intention of. 😁

    I just directed him to the horses mouth.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Umm you made the statement, I asked for more details, that's all. If there have been no communications from the EU on the issue then its not a big issue as far as the EU are concerned.

    There's also more than one way to meet the criteria of directives, especially the ones that relate to energy security.

    I'm aware of what the CRU said and to be honest I agree that our reliance on the UK is a risk and the sooner we wean ourselves off fossil fuels and on to renewables, the faster we achieve energy security



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  • Registered Users Posts: 15,126 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    You can add a third body, the Irish Green Party for their refusal to not just consider a recognised E.U. transition source with LNG but actively attempt to prevent its use.

    I doubt one plant in Dublin and another in Cork both tripping out within seconds of each other with a loss of 830 Megawatts was an obvious possibility to anyone either until it happened and it didn`t lead to your "curtains" scenario.

    There is no whataboutery, it happened November 2021 and was widely reported.



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,126 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    As I said, if you doubt the validity of what she said then go to the horses mouth and ask her.

    If your depending on us being in compliance by not having to use fossil fuels to keep the lights on, then we are going to be in non-compliance for a very very long time with the possibility of financial penalties anywhere during that time for not being so.



  • Registered Users Posts: 22,420 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia




  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Maybe but the EU haven't flagged it as an issue so there's zero chance of fines at the moment as far as I am aware. The CRU doesn't fine the national government.



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,789 ✭✭✭antoinolachtnai


    What does the Green Party have to do with it? They are only in government a wet day. They didn’t set up any of the mess that led to the potential shortfall

    LNG is another completely irrelevant tangent. LNG is just a way to increase gas bills for consumers who will have to pay for it

    Your strange conclusions from the tripping incident is exactly what whataboutery is, you read something on The Journal and then you decide the long-standing advice of an authoritative international agency can be ignored.



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,126 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    Whether that remains so with the E.U. remains to be seen.



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,126 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    The Green Party have been in government for over two years, and Eamon Ryan is the relevant Minister for energy. Along with himself actively attempting to block a private company from building a LNG terminal,a member of his party is proposing legislation to ban all forms of LNG (or like nuclear, hypocritically all forms other than those coming through an extension lead). If you believe that is helping with energy security then that is up to you, although I fail to see how.

    Whether you like it or not, LNG is recognised by the E.U. as a transition energy source, and if the rest of Europe had the same attitude towards LNG, we would not have seen gas prices falling.

    Which authoritative international agency told you that a year ago within seconds of each other, two plants 220 Kms apart as the crow flies tripped out with a loss of 830 Megawatts to the grid was whataboutery ?

    Whoever they are you should mention to them to take it up with Eirgrid who confirmed it happened, and quess what ? It didn`t result in the "curtains" scenario such a sudden drop off you claimed would collapse the grid.



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,126 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    That really is a conundrum, especially when renewables are not keeping pace with demand as we are without adding 1 million EV`s and 400,000 heat pumps



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,789 ✭✭✭antoinolachtnai


    What sort of security of supply event would an LNG terminal protect us from? There is now loads of LNG capacity in Europe (as you point out). Be in no doubt, Irish consumers would have to pay for this LNG terminal. If Ireland really were to invest in an LNG facility they’d be best off investing in one in Qatar or UAE. (LNG is another of your tangents of course to distract from the fact that your nuclear idea is a nice idea to talk about at the local pub but nothing more.)

    Do you think it is right to take risks with the national grid? Just because we got away with it once? If one of the plants had been your AP1000 and it had been the middle of the night do you think we would have gotten away with it as easily?

    The IAEA advises that in most circumstances, no one nuclear source supply more than 10 percent of the trough load. They say this on the basis of decades of experience. They don’t depend on Eirgrid for advice. (But perhaps you should write to them with a copy of the newspaper article you read, and ask them to change the long-standing advice.)



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    A local cycling group in Limerick have a e-cargo bike that locals can get the loan of to see if it works for them in their day to day.

    Hopefully the government change the bike2work scheme to allow for more folks to get more access to cheaper bikes if they find these work for them.

    I've a feeling we're going to see something on this before the next budget as the demands for change seem to be growing



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,418 ✭✭✭Rosahane


    …and it kicks off! Brownouts across North Kildare this evening as wind generation drops to about 200 MW at peak usage time!



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,746 ✭✭✭PommieBast




  • Registered Users Posts: 24,069 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    Was there yeah?

    Power Check is showing a local fault in Leixlip, that affected about 2,900 customers for 3 hours.

    Care to explain how that translates to "brownouts across North Kildare"?

    A region with about 70,000 residential customers alone?



  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 91,617 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    Right now the Netherlanders has gas storage with an energy capacity greater than centuries of global lithium battery output. That and the Corrib gas field would be enough to provide our gas needs for heating, electricity and industry until 2026.

    Hydrogen is lighter so a larger volume is need and that existing storage would only keep us going for about year or so.


    Iron Flow Batteries are an alternative to lithium. There's no shortage of iron and because it's used as a low toxic salt the iron ore doesn't even need to be reduced which helps the carbon footprint. Still nowhere near the capacity of stored gas but it's another option that could be produced at grid scale.


    The biggest generator in Moneypoint is 300MW and we have enough battery capacity to keep going until Turlough Hill's 292MW kicks in. ( 10-12 seconds if already spinning in air to about a minute for a cold start ), there's also the open cycle gas plants operating at two thirds of full power.

    We don't have a way to provide 1,200MW within 5 seconds and then 1,600MW at 15 seconds and for however long it takes. Nope. Not without significant investment in storage and backup and peaking plant.


    Weather is fairly predictable a week ahead. So it's not like there'll be sudden loss of 15GW of solar. Then again Germany solar output varied between 4.8GW and 20.2 GW during the 2015 solar eclipse. But predictable so the grid didn't fall over.

    Nuclear plants are improving but you are still talking about averaging an automatic SCRAM every 2 years at best. If you have four plants that's one every six months. Unless our grid had oodles of spinning reserve that would lead to a zero warning cascade failure like the one in Texas in Feb last year when hundreds of people died.



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,126 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    You really do not have a clue as too what you are talking about.

    Do yourself a favour, next time you are in your local pub don`t mention your idea that if we were to invest in an LNG facility we would be best off investing in one in Qatar or UAE. In fact other than saying it in your own head, do yourself a favour and never mention it to anyone.

    Probably best to do the same with your no more than 10% nuclear. Even somebody down the pub could find this within seconds.

    Up to yourself, but would you not be better off doing a bit of research than what you are doing here with your time.



  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 91,617 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    Globally nuclear last year had a 77.6% capacity factor, not including construction delays or early shutdowns.

    Over 25% of nuclear plants that started construction aren't producing any power because construction was abandoned or delayed or because of long term outages. Note, I'm not including plants that shut down early.

    Plants being completed, on time, and on budget, and producing power for 60 years is not the norm.


    In the UK nuclear gets £92.50/MWh for 35 years, offshore wind gets £38.75 for 15 years. Then it's back to market rates. Nuclear power wasn't commercially viable when the UK privatised electrical generation.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,607 ✭✭✭ps200306


    the sooner we wean ourselves off fossil fuels and on to renewables, the faster we achieve energy security

    Wind and solar can't provide energy security.



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,789 ✭✭✭antoinolachtnai


    Why do you insist on coming here and make yourself look so stupid? You are fantasising things the IAEA are supposed to have said. A country can have many plants but no one plant can safely be more than 10 percent of the demand.

    Why don’t you actually read something on the topic instead of embarrassing yourself here?

    You are not able to think of what security of supply benefit there is from an LNG terminal in Ireland for two reasons. But let’s leave out the main reason and concentrate on the secondary reason: there isn’t one.



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,126 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    I`ll say this much for you, for someone that has got so much wrong you are very bolshie.

    Your last post showed you did not have even the vaguest clue on LNG where you thought that if we were going to build a LNG terminal we would be better off doing so in Qatar or the UAE, so with that level of understanding even attempting to have a conversation with you on it would be a complete and total waste of time.

    As far as your 10% nuclear goes why don`t you go back and read what the IAEA actually says rather that what you appear to believe they said. I`ll save you further embarrassment by letting you do that yourself rather than me posting it here.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,155 ✭✭✭Mr. teddywinkles


    Brown out. Make sure ya dont get pink eye or is it red eye from that one



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