Tracking Devices

My experience of Shotscope is similar to BOB81.

It really only suits a person who has the patience and discipline to review all of their shots after the round. Generally GPS devices are only accurate within 2 to 4 yards. This isn't a big deal for long game stats but it is a big deal when most of the putting data is 10 feet out.

It usually takes me 5-10 minutes to edit my data after each round.

What kind of stats are you looking for?

I've a basic garmin watch and it tracks scores, GIR, FIR, club distance average, putts, accuracy, long drive etc.

All free.

I'm using the Shotscope and would largely agree with above. Personally I don't find it much of a faff to edit my round afterwards, as mentioned it takes maybe 10 mins. There's almost always one or two anomalies or a shot missed somewhere.

The strokes gained aspect is interesting, especially being able to compare to various handicaps and not just a tour pro, and it might throw up some surprises. The yardages are also useful too, in that they show your average with each club, plus what they call your "playing average" where it removes outliers, mishits etc (obviously that's a bit subjective to some degree). Visually that's presented on a bar chart so you can see if there are any obvious yardage gaps or overlaps. There's a nice function on the desktop where you can see an overhead of each hole and, say, your tee shots for a time period presented as coloured dots, one colour for when you made par on the hole, different one for birdie, bogey etc.

There's dozens of stats you can look at on the desktop and/or App, and its basically split into tee shots, approach play, short game & putting.

Do I like it ? Yes. Is it useful ? Yes. Could I live without it ? Absolutely. I don't think it threw up much that I wasn't already aware of, but its nice to see some "proof" of what I thought. My right miss off the tee kills me way more than my left miss. Its nice to be able to track, say, proximity to the hole with different clubs or greens hit with different clubs etc. For instance, I could see that in the season just gone, from inside 50 yds, I was averaging 6ft closer proximity to the hole with my sand wedge than with my lob wedge. It made my decision easier to try dropping the lob wedge for better gapping.

So because I don't have the tags I've have to select which club I use after every shot. It's a bit of work out on the course but I've gotten used to it and the feedback I get from it is very good considering it's free. I don't do it for every round.

It's just a garmin running watch but can also be used for golf and as a smart watch.

I use a Garmin watch and it does as much tracking as I need it for so I think its been great value for money. The average distances are generally quite close, though I still have a few outliers skewing a couple of clubs - the same for any tracker. Those outliers will be averaged out gradually after I stick in a few more rounds. The best thing for me about Garmin is that I don't have to pay a subscription for using the app or accessing my stats/SG etc. Mightn't be as detailed as other offerings but it's enough for me.

My avg 8i is 147 total in the Garmin app vs trackman, where it normalizes to about 155 carry. I know that means on a hot calm day it's carrying 160. In Winter, it's 150 or a little less. However, the context is that the 147 total from Garmin includes some shorter shots into wind or punches. I added 3x CT10 sensors for my SW/LW/Putter as it now gives better data on the short game. Particularly chips/bunkers and # of putts.

While the watches/trackers do capture total distance it's important to know your exact carry, particularly for 6i and longer clubs which have more rollout. Trackman is the gold standard here.

What I've found the most beneficial from the Garmin app has been:

1. GPS map, hazard distance, green front/mid/back. It's like having a caddy with you and probably more beneficial than a laser for most people (I have both now). Excellent help on new courses.
2. It gives a good grasp of distances until I did a trackman session for exact carry data.
3. Reviewing my rounds to see where I made mistakes for doubles/penalties etc.
4. Reviewing historical shots on holes where I struggle (change strategy for Par 4/5 and approach distances).
5. Reviewing my putting performance, how many in a round, where am 3x putting and how often etc.

I know that @benny79 wants to find out where to best focus on improving. The stats from any app/tracker will 100% help. Unless you have a low-HC, the average golfer's stats and performance will always point back to:

• Course management/shot selection to avoid penalties, bunkers, trees and rough. Put it on the short stuff (reduce wasted strokes).
• Practice putting regularly and reduce 3x putts (reduce wasted strokes).
• Practice everything inside wedge distance regularly to score well (better opportunities).
• Make chips/bunkers/recoveries a point of confidence and competence (tidy up loose strokes).
• Be a better ball striker (now starting to excel and drop your HC).

The data from the apps/trackers will support this. You can get a bit lost in diving into SG etc IMO. Even so, SG would quickly show you that which of driving, recoveries or putting etc are in need of immediate attention. Once you are capturing data and you're willing to engage with it, any tracker will be of enormous value.

I won't dismiss the fitness/speed element at all. It's SUPER important for general health and well-being, never mind golf. If you have the time to invest in it, then it's a fantastic thing to do and could help you shave a few more strokes over time. For most amateurs, we only have limited time so the best ROI on improvement is always going to be skills-based (lessons & practice). Though off-season and crap weather leave plenty of time for the gym too.

Best of luck on your journey @benny79. Looking forward to hearing how you get on for 2023.

Been listening to mark crossfieds podcast recently and it's a good one if you like your stats but he was saying if you only track one stat track greens in regulation. Everything else feeds off that. Try to get it up over 40% if possible.

Yeah obviously on a course with massive greens like St Andrews it would be mostly irrelevant but I'd say it's valid on 95% of courses. Also I wouldn't take much notice of the stat for pros but I do think it's a good one for amateurs. My own GIR for my home course this year is 33% so something to work on going into next year.

I agree fully. Just thought it was funny to hear people strongly arguing both sides.

I think it might have been Lee Westwood on Rick Shiels podcast that I heard mentioning it first. Have definitely heard it discussed a few times since.

I reckon the advice is more aimed towards professional players. Some of the points about it being misleading are accurate though. If your approach shot lands just slightly off the fringe, let's say, but you're only 6ft from the pin; it technically goes down as a missed green. But it's probably far better than hitting that same green, but being on the top shelf with a monster 60ft downhill putt.

But, for the vast majority of amateurs who aren't playing into enormous greens, then I personally think tracking GIR is far more beneficial than not.

Just to show that you can't blindly trust either stat:

This year I hit 46% of greens with my 3 wood, which is the 2nd best of any club in my bag. However the average proximity for the same club is 120 feet, which is the worst of any club.

Basically I have a 50/50 chance of flushing my 3 wood or missing the green by a country mile 😄

I think GIR is very important, and generally a good indicator of how you're playing, but in terms of trying to improve it, its probably more important to know what's causing it i.e. is it bad iron play or are your tee shots not giving you chances to hit greens ? I think, with the tracking devices, "strokes gained approach" is a better metric as it takes the approach play on its own merits.

Arcoss user here. Happily recommend it. I use it with my Applewatch and it's been great. Picks up pretty much every shot so I never have to mess with anything. Putting has been a bit off since I ditched my Cobra putter(which had a sensor built in) and now I use a putter without a sensor so just manaully put them in each hole, but generally have my phone in my pocket anyway.

Have found their Apple watch app and phone app to the best GPS I've ever used. Pretty accurate and good information.

Club distances are pretty accurate but they are a total, so it's worth putting the time in after each round to hide odd shots or yardages so it doesn't skew your data (and makes the caddie part work nicer too)

The data is excellent and I've found it to be very accurate.

What you do with that data though is a totally different ballgame. After getting a fair amount of data in there I found some surprising stuff, like for example my chipping was dogshit. And it was also telling me my putting was garbage. Both of this was news to me. It obviously can't factor in your course and potential difficulties it might have over other courses, but I've generally found it pretty accurate and reliable.

The caddie section is really brilliant and it's changed my outlook on the game, and for the better (from my results).Their head data guy bangs on alot about this on Twitter too. But in short I just committed to hitting longer and not worrying about being position A. Scoring been a lot better, and the data is sort of backing that up.

This data is useful if you see a huge weak point in your game, to go get a lesson and address. Or it might show some weak points that you can practice on and focus that practice. On the other hand will show you what your strong at which is good, and give you some pretty confidence boosting percentile stats against other Arcoss players :D

The cost wasn't a factor for me as I got the sensors as part of a Cobra deal. The sub is on par with things I pay like Netflix etc. so why not for something actively helping my game and giving me interest. I've had some sensors fail on me which was worrying, but their support are extremely responsive and on both occasions had replacements shipped quickly.

But I've had 5 sensors fail within a year, and they are covered under warranty. I'm a slight bit concerned how much it will be if they keep failing out of warranty.

I've used Arccos now for about 2 years, gone from about a 12 hcap to 7.6 currently. Arccos has played a role in that though I think getting fit has been the biggest help. That said I don't think i'd give up the Arccos sub easily, really good for identifying trends with my game and confirmed a lot of things I thought about my game as well as some surprising things too. Its gotten better during that time too, much more accurate at getting the flag position right now compared to a 12 months ago.

What I would say to anyone using it though is when looking at your club data, make sure and remove the outlier shots or your distances will be off. The app defaults to last 10 rounds as well i think so be careful of that too as a couple of weeks with a good few 5i punch outs that you didn't remove will show up with your 5i distances decreasing. Its generally pretty good at identifying a punch out but if you are good at a low punchy one it can tend to count those as a normal shot even though it might be 80 yards short of your normal distance.

The caddy feature is good to preview a course you haven't played too and can show some surprising options you might not think of to approach a hole. Good example is a hole on my home course, i'm more accurate with my 8i than 9i for GIR (no idea why :/) and it advised me to hit a different club off the tee on a short par 4 to leave me with a 8i. Tried it a few times and have been doing that ever since. Before i was leaving myself 9i/PW distance in and screwing it up.

Next step for me this winter is a garmin R10 to try dial in my carry distances. I've a far idea but suspect like most amateurs I think i hit it further than i do.

have you the older or newer model of the PRGR? I have the newer and ever found that much of an inaccuracy as the example above as its usual accounted for in the difference of smash factor

I have the watch. The GPS unit wasn't around when I got the watch a couple of years ago, but tbh I'd still pick the watch. I'd never remember to tap the unit before every shot, some might like it but, for me, it would be a needless faff particularly if I had it say, clipped onto my bag, and then need it on the putting green. Honestly I forget to mark the pin after holing out probably 4 or 5 times a round anyway ! Its easily fixed in the post round edit though. The only tiny downside I found with the watch is that you have to wear it on your top hand on the grip - I'm a lefty which means on my right wrist, and after a lifetime of wearing watches on my left wrist it felt strange at first. Don't even notice it now though.

Yep, you just press a button when you hole out. Its no big deal at all tbh, just easy to forget to do at times until it becomes a habit. Its simple to add in or move a pin location in the post round edit/check anyway.

I think the Shotscope is a good system that gives, IMO, anyone, more than enough information than they'd ever realistically need about their game and performance. Personally I find the Strokes Gained the most interesting metric.

I think one of the primary difference is being able to switch between metres and yards, better accuracy, etc...

That's just from looking at CharlieIRLs one when he was trying to switch, as he's one of those metres weirdos!!!

I see Rapsodo have launched their latest device:

https://rapsodo.com/pages/golf-mlm2pro

$699 so not cheap, but relative to the high end stuff the testing I've seen on it is very comparable in quality. It also has simulator mode aside from the swing data.

Could be a nice option for a home set Up.