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Ursula Von Der Leyen - addressing the Oireachtas yesterday. Opinions on her speech?

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  • Registered Users Posts: 296 ✭✭Ham_Sandwich


    without eu even less money for services and social welfare the brexit types can go to england and see how they get on over there without the eu



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 39,867 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    @xxxxxxl: Does not matter who it effected the EU triggered it not Ireland.

    Ireland is the EU



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Ireland is a nodding dog to the EU.

    It matters not whether FG or FF or even SF are in power, the trajectory will always remain the same, and will always align with the interests of the EU first, then Ireland second.

    This country prides itself on attaining independence from the UK, yet it only took 50-years for us to slavishly hand that independence to the European Union.



  • Registered Users Posts: 159 ✭✭Uncharted2


    Look at what Ireland has sacrificed in return. Have to follow orders which means destroying Ireland in the process. Irish culture heritage and identity is dying all by design. Varadkar when he was Taoiseach went to Marrakesh in 2018 to sign the UN Migration Pact on behalf of Ireland, without any debate with the Irish people. This Pact legalised international MASS migration and is criminalising any criticism of same as hate speech. The climate agenda, Ursula Von Der Leden also demanded that Ireland (education system) must include lgbt agenda. Every year the EU must approve the budget, remember Kenny when he was Taoiseach ran to Brussels days before the budget to get it approved by daddy EU. The whole unlimited amount of 'refugees' is also under EU orders. 40 Billion isn't worth destroying Ireland forever.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 39,867 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    Look at what Ireland has sacrificed in return. Have to follow orders which means destroying Ireland in the process.

    Nice use of military referencing there. What orders have we been given thought because I can't think of any?

    Irish culture heritage and identity is dying all by design.

    In what way? Again, I can't think of any examples so maybe you can help me out here.

    Varadkar when he was Taoiseach went to Marrakesh in 2018 to sign the UN Migration Pact on behalf of Ireland, without any debate with the Irish people.

    Shoudl our Taoiseach debate everything with us before they can do anything? Whjat other things should have been debated with the irish people? Maybe they should also debate things like tax changes because I'm in favour of everyone but me having to pay taxes.

    This Pact legalised international MASS migration and is criminalising any criticism of same as hate speech.

    So you're saying it is a good thing?

    The climate agenda, Ursula Von Der Leden also demanded that Ireland (education system) must include lgbt agenda.

    I'm confused by this one. Are you saying that Ms vdL told us that our climate agenda m,ust include an LGBT agenda? If she did then yeah, that's weird. When exactly did she demand this?

    Or by making reference to a "climate agenda" and an lgbt agenda" are you someone who simply disagrees with these two (hint: the limate "agenda" is about minimising something that is based on scientific fact whilst the lgbt (or rather lgbtqia+) is based on equality and removing discrimination but presumably you're in favour of this also)

    Every year the EU must approve the budget, remember Kenny when he was Taoiseach ran to Brussels days before the budget to get it approved by daddy EU.

    Given how varous Irish governments have managed to bollix up our economy a few times, I'm happy that the EU keep an eye on our budget. It will also help make sure that the likes of Greece which didn't collect taxes properly will do so.

    However, "daddy EU"? Are you a child with a comment like this?

    The whole unlimited amount of 'refugees' is also under EU orders.

    Wheer have we been told that we must take in unlimited refugees? You haven't except in your anti-EU/anti-immigration propoganda.

    40 Billion isn't worth destroying Ireland forever.

    Ireland hasn't been destroyed but yes, there are some Herman Kelly wannabes who want to rid Ireland of anyone who doesn't have Irish DNA. Personally, I'd like to see those people gone but unfortunately the EU haven't given us the orders to remove them!



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  • Registered Users Posts: 6,962 ✭✭✭amacca


    The percentage of GDP column does give pause for thought.....



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,811 ✭✭✭joe40


    The EU is not some kind of external power, it is group of nations working together. That's what the Brits could not understand or chose not to understand.

    The media for years presented the EU like some kind of imperial force controlling the UK which is utter nonsense.

    The Brexiteers can never point to a single law which they have got rid off which has been a benefit. Just one example of a Brexit dividend.

    I'm extremely happy your Farage loving politics has no traction in Ireland.



  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators Posts: 10,317 Mod ✭✭✭✭Jim2007


    Lets have some hard facts from you, if your opinion has any credibility:

    Explain exactly, how the treaties of Rome can be amended without the specific approval of Ireland? This should be really easy for you since you must have examined these documents in great detail before your reached your conclusion.

    What is the legal definition of treason, who has actually committed treason and why have you not made a complaint to the Garda?

    So far I have seen nothing but repeated sound bites devoid of any analysis. If you want a discussion, then start putting some facts of those will opinions.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Those at the core of the EU, which includes Ursula Von Der Leyen, cannot be removed by a public vote or public election. She is appointed.

    That's the very opposite of "a group of nations working together".

    And you're right that "Farage-loving politics" has no traction in Ireland because, as I already said earlier in this thread, Ireland is a supine country; a peripheral irrelevance at the fringe of the EU.

    We do as we are told, including to vote again on referenda because we chose the wrong option. What was that about "a group of nations working together" again? Oh yeah, turns out not to be exactly as you have portrayed it to be.

    And just to polish off my point, here is a quote from the former president of the European Commission, Jean-Claude Juncker:

    ...there can be no democratic choice against the European treaties.

    "A group of nations working together" you said. Well even Mr Juncker disagrees with you.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,811 ✭✭✭joe40


    I totally disagree with that. The Brexit discussion between the EU and the UK would have been much easier without the EUs insistence on protecting the GFA agreement. That was in our interest. Far from an irrelevance Irish interests were paramount in the discussions.

    Now that the UK are no longer in the EU how have they benefitted. Is there any tangible benefit coming from Brexit or are all the wonderful trade deals just around the corner.

    What EU regulations have they got rid off and how has that benefitted the UK.



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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,881 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    I asked at the start of the thread whether a poster could name a single aspect of Irish culture that was being destroyed by the EU. They could not. Can you? The rest of this is the start reactionary stuff that's incredibly tedious.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,881 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    And not a shred of proof. Just an alleged quote with no context or source.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Ireland was wielded as a political sledgehammer by the EU to cudgel the newly anathematised, but independent United Kingdom.

    Whilst I admire your attempt to throw confetti on everything the EU does and says, there comes a point when very cold water needs to be thrown atop the oft-repeated spiel that everything the EU does is in its member states' interests.

    Because it's false; a manufactured fiction.

    What the EU does or says is primarily about conserving power and influence at the core, of those who are immune to the public vote. In fact, it's only when a politician loses an election that they become prime meat to be appointed to the EU Commission; the only body that proposes legislation that the EU parliament (the elected chamber) cannot veto.

    Ursula von der Leyen is the latest ghoul to occupy the role of EU Commission President. The previous incarnation was a Luxembourgish alcoholic involved in tax avoidance schemes.

    The sooner this ghastly structure crumbles, the better for the electorates of each member state.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,994 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    The EU didn't "force" anything wrt the second votes - there was overwhelming support from a vast majority of elected representatives in Ireland for it. Its what our own government and much of the opposition actually wanted. Just one of a number of falsehoods being thrown around willy nilly.

    I was not alive pre-EU, but I will never understand the yearning to return to the Ireland of the late 80s and 90s. It was ****.

    Also, as usual, those who berate supine Ireland, or suggest we are just lapdogs are also the ones completely incapable of putting forth their own realistic vision for what they want while simultaneously displaying they don't really understand how geopolitics works.



  • Registered Users Posts: 587 ✭✭✭CrookedJack




  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,881 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]




  • Registered Users Posts: 4,933 ✭✭✭fly_agaric


    That whole "supine" dig at Ireland is a bit of a tell.

    A person who thinks a nation is either great, the "boss man" telling everyone else what is what and leading the way, or they are just others meek slaves to be pushed about (Little old Ireland definitely isn't such a "boss" country and it never was, the UK don't seem to order us about so much as they used to any more, so a slave to the EU it must be!)

    A person from a country that used to be an empire/world superpower perhaps, where fact that it just isn't one any more is not fully digested, still colours thinking about what a nation should be, what is a good way for it behave in the world, its relations with others etc.

    Anyways eskimo would not be pining after a simpler poorer Ireland of 80s (with very high taxes if you did not cheat on them if irc? - that would be a deal breaker going by other discussions!). He has no loyalty to this country.



  • Registered Users Posts: 900 ✭✭✭sameoldname


    If I recall correctly that poster was a big fan of Trump, Boris, Farage and Brexit. That's a lot of being lied to he's had to swallow. He's currently hard at work on the Kanye thread, can't imagine why. Fair play to you guys for even engaging.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,933 ✭✭✭fly_agaric


    I think you recall correctly. I probably shouldn't be praised for engaging though, thread is maybe better left alone! ☹️

    I didn't go into the "kanye" one. Hitler in the title was enough to convince me it wasn't worth it!



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,841 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    If the EU was just a loose trade bloc with few rules and no European Commission, as the right wing English nationalists aka Brexiteers claimed they wanted, then the Single Market and concepts like freedom of movement, open borders, no tariffs and taxes, no roaming charges etc couldn't even exist. They are literally dependent on EU law and that law being transposed into national law.

    The European Commission was already up and running in 1973 when the UK joined the EEC.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Freedom of movement has been a disaster for the home country (for example, Lithuania and Poland) as it has been for the target country.

    Open borders only offend rich, successful countries.

    Roaming charges? Is that seriously still bandied about as some miraculous cure from the EU?

    Christ, that's not much...



  • Registered Users Posts: 900 ✭✭✭sameoldname




  • Registered Users Posts: 1,134 ✭✭✭jimwallace197


    I think certainly for the first 25/30 years, the EU was excellent for Ireland, we benefited from it in a number of ways. However the direction its started to take over the last ten to 15 years or so is concerning to say the least. There doesnt seem to be any proper handle on immigration(the policy seems to be open borders without proper checks and balances), we were completely left on the hook for the banking crisis which they were more than a little bit responsible for aswell as us & they seem to be heavily pushing an aggressive woke ideology in so far as threatening the likes of Italy that if they dont conform to what the EU deems acceptable in its policies, they've measures in hand to punish them economically. Thats almost autocratic.

    Id be in favor of it remaining as an economic union but thats where it ends.

    As for Von Der Leyden herself, shes considered to be divisive even in her own country and was a disaster as Minister of Defence, the portfolio she occupied for 6 years before she took over as President of the EU commission. Germany even abstained in voting for her as president, make of that what you will.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,073 ✭✭✭timmyntc


    As I thought. You made it up.

    Source? Proof please?



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,881 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,415 ✭✭✭MrMusician18


    There's a genuine question over how much of that can be attributed to EEC/EU membership.

    Take for example Iceland - outside the EU but saw its GDP per capita increase 12fold from roughly $5k to $60k in the same period.

    Pro trade and internationalist policies instituted domestically may have had a similar impact to EEC membership. It's a fictional alternative history though so one really can't say.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,881 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



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  • Registered Users Posts: 7,415 ✭✭✭MrMusician18


    We can use Israel then as an example then. It's seen GDP per capita grow from $2k in 1969 to $50k today.

    To say that strong growth could not have occured outside the EEC is a mistake.



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