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"Green" policies are destroying this country

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  • Registered Users Posts: 15,126 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    Not much different from our own lunatics no, no, never on nuclear yet more than happy to get it through an extension lead. Germany are happy importing that coal from a lovely 70,000 hectare environmentally friendly open-cast mine in Columbia.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    As I said, its a blip.

    They are indeed ramping up coal usage at the moment due to putins war, but they are also ramping up plans for renewables and bringing forward the dates for removing coal from their grid

    You disagree, cool, but here's what the German cabinet did in Nov

    Germany's cabinet on Wednesday approved a draft law to phase out coal-fired power plants in the western state of North Rhine-Westphalia by 2030 instead of a previous date of 2038, part of Berlin's efforts to speed up the cutting of greenhouse emissions.

    At the same time, the cabinet approved extending the lifespan of two coal-fired plants in the same state as a way of shoring up the country's energy security as it copes with dwindling Russian gas and oil supplies since the war in Ukraine.

    They've also brought forward their target of a 100% renewable grid by 5 years to 2035.

    You disagree, cool, but the Bundestag passed the required legislation in July this year

    Edit: Actually, just reading up on the legislation, some pretty hefty numbers in it

    • A new target of 80% renewables power by 2030
    • Doubling of Germany's onshore wind energy capacity to 115 GW by 2030, 10 GW to be added annually as of 2025
    • Nearly tripling of solar energy to 215 GW by 2030, 22 GW to be added annually as of 2026
    • Expansion of offshore wind energy to 30 GW by 2030, 40 GW by 2035 and 70 GW by 2045
    • Expanding renewable power generation capacity will become an overriding public interest and will be given priority over other concerns
    • More space for solar PV and wind power installations (2 percent of Germany’s territory will be designated for onshore wind power by 2032 at the latest)
    • Licensing and construction of renewable plants and grids will become less bureaucratic
    • New tender volumes for green hydrogen. In 2023, 800 MW will be auctioned, followed by 200 MW annually until 2026
    • After the coal exit funding for renewables shall be market driven (end of auctions)


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,324 ✭✭✭paddyisreal


    All them targets will be kicked down the road, you know it and I know it.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I've no doubt some will be late in being achieved, but they will be achieved. The Germans, a great bunch of lads for getting stuff done



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,324 ✭✭✭paddyisreal


    They will offset the carbon output by giving some dictator a wad of cash to spend on some "green plan", that's how all these richer countries will meet the zero bullshit in the next few years. Nothing like a bit of creative accountancy. I heard an eamon Ryan cling on after returning from Egypt say she would offset the carbon footprint through a carbon credit. Countries will just do the same. A load of bull



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  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 91,586 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    NOX is just more FUD. NOX reduction in turbines can be done right now by using water to abate the emissions and still meet the 2030 standards.

    Siemens and GE have both said they'll deliver low NOX versions of today's large power turbines burning pure H2 by 2030 and probably as a retro fit option.

    It's a solved problem. And there are other options like emissions capture, diluting the gases to lower temperature, having a higher initial burn temp with cooler afterburning etc.


    At present usage rates there's only enough uranium to provide global energy needs at current usage for about 5 years. That wouldn't get us through a sun-spot cycle and certainly not several billion years.

    Breeder reactors are NOT a solved problem. It's still vapourware. No one is using breeders to feed an increased number of reactors. Breeding is used to make weapons and stretch the fuel a bit. Look at the history of BNFL to see what an ugly mess reprocessing is. The litany of failed breeder projects represents heaps of money wasted. Like decommissioning it's a huge overhead.



    Out high electricity prices originated from having the ESB increase the third cheapest elctricity in the EU to make us attractive to competition. We should have stayed with a non-profit semi-state but EU rules.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,913 ✭✭✭Danno


    Out high electricity prices originated from having the ESB increase the third cheapest electricity in the EU to make us attractive to competition. We should have stayed with a non-profit semi-state but EU rules.

    EU marginal pricing policy and the above quoted section from your post paints the EU as a bollix of an entity when it comes to electricity.



  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 91,586 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight



    Or since they are using a Net annual average energy production = 4,471MWh/year/MW and since the actual 15 year strike price was £38.75/MWh the income stream would be £173,251,250 per GW year. £4,677,783.75 over 27 years per GW.

    However, they are only guaranteed that price for the first 15 years (£2,598,768/GW) and then it's market rates, and offshore work and renewables are getting cheaper in real terms so it should cost less than if you started in 2019.

    Also refurbishment costs are a small fraction of the initial cost. You only need to swap out the bits that wear out and those bits may even be themselves refurbished. Blades at 130,000 Gearbox 70,000, Turbine decommissioning 45,000 (a proxy for the amount of work during refurbishment) out of 2,370,000


    I love this overhead, in the nuclear world it would be a LOT higher. Other (includes lost projects that incur development expenditure)   54,000



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,126 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    The real serious emitters do not give to hoots about carbon emissions. China have shown that and have ever intentions of doing so by ramping up their economy using coal to supply idiots like ours with their "green" tech. Japan and India told them to their faces to go fcuk themselves COP26 on their carbon outputs and they would use coal or anything else required to protect their economies.


    The E.U. have got themselves so complicate in this whole German driven green agenda, an agenda that Germany wasn`t long putting on the back burner and racing back to coal to protect their economy, (and their politicians trying to save their own necks), that they are now resorting to such farce as turning a blind eye to so called Guaranteed Green Energy Certificates being used multiple times that make renewable figures better than they really are, and regarding wood pellets as carbon neutral to make the books look better.


    It would not surprise me if with Germany now using so much coal if the E.U. suddenly decided the same wood pellets rule should be applied to coal. The sale of wood pellets and firewood has gone through the roof in Germany, where incidentally wood is classified as carbon neutral and you don`t need to buy it with a little note included from Eamon Ryan telling you how to burn it. Here the same twit has been making an even bigger fool of himself than could be imagined possible on turf.


    Here we have a crew of greens unable to do basic mathematics who want us to piss away an unknown sum north of €150 Billion on their hopium and their only concern is carbon fines from the same E.U. If you didn`t laugh at their madness you would go as mad as them.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,607 ✭✭✭ps200306


    Yup. We're already seeing all the existing missed targets getting loaded onto the hopium of offshore wind, which is now up to 7GW by 2030. An analyst for GE Renewables believes we will hit -- wait for it -- ZERO GW BY 2030. Have a listen to yesterday's Drivetime, starting at 02:01:30 ...

    We haven't been able to even issue any permits for seabed surveys in the last five years. We have no ports capable of handling the required marine traffic. For some of the vessels needed there are only 5 or 6 of them in the world... and there is a five year waiting list to charter them.

    The Green energy targets were highly aspirational to begin with. Government bureaucracy and inertia has managed to turn them into hopeless fantasies.



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    i listened to a couple of those ‘hot mess’ podcasts. They certainly paint a more realistic picture of some of the bigger scale initiatives and timelines, and is one of the only places I’ve heard real world challenges and roadblocks being discussed



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,273 ✭✭✭xxxxxxl


    Had to laugh on a weather app I use the new air quality thing is on there. Low and behold air quality over the entire country is fine.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Come back to me on a calm day when there is no wind to disperse the pollution

    Apparently we get a lot of those



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,993 ✭✭✭✭JRant


    So what you're saying is we shouldn't be building massive wind farms then?

    "Well, yeah, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man"



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,273 ✭✭✭xxxxxxl


    Wrong again its not windy at all today looking at the map. SW is about 26kp/h. Almost like there was never an issue at all in the first place. Its saying Dublin city centre is about 13 kp/h and fair pollution. I wager Dublin is the most polluted too.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,205 ✭✭✭✭Furze99


    So will there be power outages over the next week? The huge turbines opposite us are barely turning, it's getting colder.. This is the scenario where we hit problems - winter anticyclone.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,273 ✭✭✭xxxxxxl


    Not sure but I expect everything with a Diesel UPS to be using it for the foreseeable. I have not noticed the lack of Christmas lights either. I recon they will start saying "Outages in Areas" I.E rolling blackouts. You know cut the power after 12 at night.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,913 ✭✭✭Danno


    However, they are only guaranteed that price for the first 15 years (£2,598,768/GW) and then it's market rates, and offshore work and renewables are getting cheaper in real terms so it should cost less than if you started in 2019.

    Can you demonstrate this?

    it seems very odd to met that labour costs and turbine materials are cheaper now than 2019. Inflation is running at over 10% and some materials are 40% up in the construction sector.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Between this and the carbon tariffs coming for steel etc, it should go some way to addressing the whataboutery

    THE EU HAS an agreement to ban the import of several products considered the “main drivers of deforestation,” including coffee, cocoa and soy, the European Commission said.


    “The new law will ensure that a set of key goods placed on the [European Union] market will no longer contribute to deforestation and forest degradation in the EU and elsewhere in the world,” said the commission, praising the decision that the bloc’s member states and the EU Parliament reached overnight.


    “When the new rules enter into force, all relevant companies will have to conduct strict due diligence if they place on the EU market.”


    The list of products banned – which includes palm oil, cattle, soy, coffee, cocoa, timber and rubber – have been identified as a “driver of deforestation” if they came from deforested land after December 2020.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,273 ✭✭✭xxxxxxl


    Lets not worry that some places only export this stuff. Sure they will be well happy back in mud huts.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 11,205 ✭✭✭✭Furze99


    Pulling up the drawbridge scenario - what happened to all of Ireland's great woodlands? Felled and cleared for agriculture over the centuries.



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,126 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    You do have a tendency for selecting the lowest strike price you can find when it comes to U.K. strike prices for wind and the most expensive for nuclear with Hinkley "The dreadful deal behind the worlds most expensive power plant".

    From carbonbrief.org/analysis-record-low-price-for-uk-offshore-wind Simon Evans 08.07.2022.

    For the 11Gigwatts the U.K has secured that are due to start operating within the next 5 years the average price in today`s money is £48 per megawatt hour (MWh).


    We all know, so there is no point in kidding ourselves that we will not come anywhere close to the U.K. average for offshore CapEx for this 30 Gigawatt plan. Even if you ignore the state of Siemens, Vesta and General Electrics balance sheets (Post #18588) which shows the price of wind turbines are going to increase not decrease. But for the sake of arguement lets pretend none of that is relevant.


    We know from this ESB plan that 50% of the electricity generated would be for domestic and 50% for hydrogen production. That means that for the domestic consumer the strike price would be double. So that U.K. average price of £48 for wind now becomes £96.


    But the consumer is not going to be off the hook at £96 (€112) even though it is more expensive than the most expensive nuclear strike price you could find. They will also be on the hook with the further addition of the unknown production costs, the storage costs and the distribution costs of hydrogen, all of which would not be necessary with nuclear.

    Even a Hinkley C, (and there are a lot more options at a fraction of the cost of Hinkley C), would be better value for the consumer than this ESB plan.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,273 ✭✭✭xxxxxxl


    It's gas you hear the greens banging on about Ireland natural beauty. It's 100% man made. Do the think Walls and hedges grow on their own. I could not name a single part of Ireland that has not be manufactured. I mean There are a good few places now where they cut the trees down and the top soil blew off leaving just rock.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    More to come on that as the LULUCF sectoral emissions are due to be set soon. Once thats done there's going to be an extensive program of peatland rewetting & restoration as well as new national parks established with native species and so on. The LULUCF sector limit will determine the level of actions and the scope of them. I'm looking forward to seeing what comes out of it as there's a lot of low-hanging fruit in that sector to make quick gains



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    What a cool initiative. Its been so successful its been extended

    Dublin City Council’s cargo bike for businesses and community group scheme has been so successful that an extension and expansion of the project has been agreed, the council has said.


    The bikes are pedal-assist electric cargo bicycles and are available to businesses at a discounted rate of €100 per month. Over 20 businesses have been involved in the scheme so-far and 10 more are expected to join them.




  • Registered Users Posts: 5,273 ✭✭✭xxxxxxl


    lol 30 businesses wait till the weather turns you wont seem them anywhere.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    The great hope, Sinn Fein, say they will enter govt with the Green Party come next election

    That twitter thread has some vids and other typical "SF'ness" so plenty of examples of talking out both sides of their collective mouth trying to cover ever possible base in their populism

    A reply to the thread sums it up nicely

    To be honest I'm kinda looking forward to seeing SF get into power just to see how often they have to eat their words. It'll be fun to watch, not least of which on the budgetary side of things let alone anything else. Roll on 2025



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,848 ✭✭✭?Cee?view


    They're particularly ignorant of the landscape in Galway City. Once there's any bit of a wind or tide they start bleating on about sea levels rising and generally then point to areas of land that have been recently reclaimed from the sea. Most of Salthill prom, and a significant portion of the land behind it, is constructed on reclaimed seashore. It needs regular maintenance, not whining about C02.

    This one is a particular joke > https://galwaypulse.com/2022/09/30/galway-light-installation-highlights-rising-sea-levels/ It's supposed to show the level to which the sea will rise. What they fail to acknowledge is that again, it's at an area that's been reclaimed so has to be maintained. All of Long Walk (right next to where this installation is installed) is reclaimed, and it used to flood extensively until the late 1940s when the river was dredged.

    Now, environmental (or just mental) regulations mean that shores and rivers can't be dredged or deepened, so of course places such as Long Walk and Salthill flood. It's neglect, not climate change.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,273 ✭✭✭xxxxxxl


    The lack of basic history annoys me more than anything. Building near a flood plain used to be alright unless a serious flood happened because they were dredged as large enough boats went down them carrying stuff. like you said. Coastal erosion used to be a hot topic hello it's natural.



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    The climate change deniers won't be getting as much airtime in future. Great response by the BAI to the Oireachtas Environment and Climate Action Committee

    They go even further and state that those offering "alternative views" are basically lying

    Radio and TV shows do not have to give airtime to climate change deniers or doubters to provide balanced coverage of the issue, the industry regulator has said.

    The Broadcasting Authority of Ireland (BAI) said there was some confusion over what it meant to uphold the industry code on fair and impartial debate.

    “There is no legal obligation to provide balance,” Declan McLoughlin, BAI manager told the Oireachtas Environment and Climate Action Committee.

    “It may be necessary but where there is no actual alternative view – and the fundamentals of climate change are decided - there is no requirement to provide balance.

    “With balance for the sake of it, you end up with false equivalence, with views that do not represent the truth.”




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