General Irish politics discussion thread

Says one of the posters who has made no effort to evidence this claim.

Because it cannot be backed up, what we are getting is stubborn stereotyping and arrogant posturing.

What? Just look at other crimes that Gardai have to solve, they are difficult because of the nature of crime, people simply don't have the info to give.

Sean Quinn has gotten criticised here from the get go. There has always been three schools of thought one critical and one loyal to him and of course, those with no opinion at all, (probably the highest number of the three)

Of course our wonderful media was only interested in portraying one side of that for the edification of those who swallow the bigotry of Dukes etc.

Utter fantasy stuff. Based on nothing but stereotypes.

There were vociferous critics of Quinn right throughout the region from the start.

There may have been incidents but that doesn't mean it was widespread.

I'm still quite puzzled to hear that two Dubs landing up to Cavan and engaging in an absolutely horrific crime is evidence that I, as someone from a border county, have violence in my blood.

Truly enlightening to be told I'm quicker to turn to violence than, just as a random example, someone from East Wall in Dublin.

Absolute nonsense from Dukes, happily parroted by the usual suspects who have zero lived experience in the area, with all the undue confidence in the world in their opinion because they read something once.

Correct.

Alan Dukes was more right then he was wrong. It's just some here don't want to admit it.

I suggest you look up the definition of bigotry again there, Mark.

I'd say it's a bit of a heavy handed use of the term, but it certainly could be applied here.

All racism is inherently bigoted, not all bigotry is racist.

That's pretty much the claim that Dukes made, and for which he has since apologised. So, yeah, bigotry.

Your potted history lacks nuance Sam.

'One' minister didn't know there were 'sides'. And they were well aware of gerrymandering, misgovernment etc. They stood by when Unionists changed the voting system that came with partition. Take a look at the understanding Harold Wilson and Jim Callaghan had at the outbreak of the recent conflict/war. They understood it and Wilson knew that the wrong actions would radicalise the south and he feared doing that. Tory, Heath also knew but didn't care, setting a pattern. See: Contemporary debates in HoC and relevant autobiog/biogs.

Also, violence and internecine warfare/conflict came to border areas when the border was hardened. It was confined mostly to the cities of Derry and Belfast to begin with. Displacement from the cities and deportation didn't help either.

Dukes was being, by his own admission, offensive. A pattern from that particular political quarter too.

Politicians are caught out on lies all the time Sam.

Wilson fully understood what was going on in the North at the time.

If Wilson was told in 1966, then he knew about it for some years before the PD marches in 1968 and did nothing about it. It can't have come as a surprise to him in 1968/69.

It didn't. He was discussing electoral reform in 1968 with Terence O'Neill. It should also be noted that he, Callaghan and even Heath were visitors to NI. and Wilson as a young MP had worked on Northern Ireland.

I suspect Smith caught him out and he feigned ignorance. Not unusual in a politicain tbf.

That's incorrect Pere. He was in conversation with O'Neill about electoral reform but got waylaid by O'Neill's troubles in dealing with the PD issues.

They certainly ignored what was going on, but they were well aware of it. The UVF went on a killing spree in 66 killing 3 in one day as they 'declared war on the IRA', so 'asleep' was NI.

Yes, I agree, but it isn't fair to say he 'did nothing'.

Events overtook him.

?? The Greens are 'in government'.