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Dangerous Dogs Owners

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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,129 ✭✭✭Ms2011


    Not to nit pick but the only dog there that was bred to fight was the Bulldog though these days they are mostly just fighting to breathe.

    Doberman was bred to guard.

    GSDs were bred to herd sheep.

    Rottweilers were bred to herd cattle and pull carts.

    Akita was bred to guard.

    What all these breeds possess is a need to obey their handler which of course in the wrong hands can be disastrous.



  • Administrators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 76,290 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Beasty


    More posts deleted

    If you cannot interact in a civil manner do not post at all as you can expect to have your comments deleted and posting privileges removed if you do



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,553 ✭✭✭Ave Sodalis


    Good golly. My evidence for them not identifying pitties is a working on a professional level with both. Vets have too much else to worry about than identifying every single nuanced breed on sight. They aren't a registrar and once breed related illness can be rules out, they don't care that much. The wardens in the areas around here couldn't pick a Mal from a GSD, nevermind distinguish various bully breeds and their mixes. Heck, I've worked with dogs a while now and I couldn't say for certain sometimes.


    Change my mind on what, exactly? This is what I mean by hysteria. Do you want me to change my mind on wanting a better system in place? On wanting to dig out the root of the problem before attacking the branches? On not wanting the lab x rottie client of mind, who is the world's biggest sweetheart, to be put down just because he looks like he has bully breeding? On thinking reactionary solutions don't help anyone? Or was it my earlier post saying we need some form of competence test for restricted breed ownership? Or should I change my mind on saying pitties do account for a large amount of attacks and something needs to be done?


    Knee jerk, reactionary responses (which "kill everything that looks like a pittie, even though even professionals have trouble telling them apart. Feck the risk of killing someones harmless, beloved pet" certainly is) are only a thorn in the side of the people who are looking for actual solutions and changes that will work.



  • Registered Users Posts: 253 ✭✭4shameee


    So zero evidence? Are you genuinely saying this stats are wildly wrong? Because that's the thing they would need to be wildly wrong? And your reasoning is that people can't tell what a "pittie" is?



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,059 ✭✭✭xhomelezz




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  • Registered Users Posts: 799 ✭✭✭Juran


    Sad that it took this tragic and horific attack on a child for gardai to start taking some action. Someone already posted the complaints in the south-east region regarding dangerous dogs, it was in the hundreds if I recall.


    Eleven dogs seized by Gardaí as investigation into Wexford pitbull attack widens

    https://www.independent.ie/regionals/wexford/news/eleven-dogs-seized-by-gardai-as-investigation-into-wexford-pitbull-attack-widens-42200581.html



  • Registered Users Posts: 253 ✭✭4shameee


    I genuinely wouldn't be bothered on clicking on the link. The website is called pitbullinfo.org



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,059 ✭✭✭xhomelezz


    And?

    There are links to studies carried on.

    But don't bother click, if you don't want to. Not my problem.

    Websites won't bite you...



  • Registered Users Posts: 245 ✭✭Meirleach


    Interesting Canadian investigative report here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iFa8HOdegZA

    I'm afraid it's fairly long, and I'd also warn people that there are discussions of injuries, deaths, also some footage and photographs that are upsetting/NSFW

    It includes the interesting fact that after pit bulls were banned in Toronto, the overall reported dog bite rate dropped from over 100 per year, to 15.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,342 ✭✭✭Zak Flaps


    While I agree that (unfortunately) scumbags are attracted to bull breeds in general, to say that every single pit bull type is a danger and every single owner is a scumbag is just idiotic. If you're going to add to the debate, don't be so reactionary.

    Approx 4.5 million pit bull types in the USA... are they all dangerous? Is that why they are very popular? Popular with families....with children. Why is that? Because they are so dangerous?

    I'd be inclined to think that you don't even know that a pit bull isn't an actual breed.

    What are your thoughts on bulldogs, bull terriers, staffies, american bullies, bull mastiffs? Are they all dangerous?

    Apparently over 20 breeds are mistaken for pit bulls. So what breed are you on about when you say they're all dangerous?

    Did you know that Pit Bull types scores around the same in the American Temperament Test Society as Golden Retrievers? (85%)

    Seriously FFF, try to actually contribute something sensible here.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,342 ✭✭✭Zak Flaps


    He looks very scary. But you should never judge a book by it's cover.

    Awwww isn't that the cutest photo....the doggy with the little baby kiss kiss xxxxx



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,059 ✭✭✭xhomelezz


    I'll give the video go later, but when you look up Toronto Pitbull ban online, there's tons of evidence, that number of dog bites went up since the ban was introduced in 2005... So I don't know.



  • Registered Users Posts: 602 ✭✭✭zedhead


    i cant really tell if you are being serious, the comment seems sarcastic but hard to tell. Either way I had to say that photo is not cute. Its terrifying. And not because its an xl bull breed, it would be with ANY dog in that situation with a tiny infant. Hard to tell since the ears have been brutally cropped but it looks like they are pinned back and the dog is showing dangerous guarding behaviour to the child. This is not safe, its not cute and NO DOG should have full access to a baby like that.



  • Registered Users Posts: 245 ✭✭Meirleach


    Dog bites went down in the 6 years after the ban https://globalnews.ca/news/177500/toronto-dog-bites-fell-after-pit-bull-ban/


    Bites in Toronto blamed on the four affected breeds fell sharply, from 71 in 2005 to only six in 2010. This accounts for most of the reduction in total bites.


    They've been slowly climbing again since 2013 for reasons unknown. It's been theorised that it might be due to their just being more dogs but apparently Toronto doesn't track overall dog numbers very well.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,951 ✭✭✭D3V!L


    We have a one-year-old English Bull Terrier and he is lovely and placid, a lot of work but placid. He loves young kids having come from a well-known breeder in Cork that has a young family.

    We went from everyone in the estate wanting to say hello to him 6 months ago to people picking up their aggressive little ankle biters (while our lad is completely unreactive) to getting filthy looks recently due to this incident down south.

    As you can imagine I've had questions about what he is etc, as he's very unusual looking, to you can't have one of those in Ireland because they're "banned". 🙄 The sheer ignorance now is unreal, people making up breed names is the latest thing because they heard something on the news and are just jumping on the bandwagon.

    Dogs have been bread as tools and companions for thousands of years. They are what you make them, a guard dog, an attack dog, an assistance dog. Like humans, they're a product of their environment.

    Putting an EBT in the wrong hands would be catastrophic for the animal and anyone that they come across. We were heavily vetted by the breeder and had video chats with them in the lead-up to collect him. Even to this day, we're in contact with them. That doesn't stop random Karens from making judgments in public because they don't like the look of him or me.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,668 ✭✭✭ittakestwo


    Were any of those dogs bred to fight?

    German shepherd were bread to herd. They're actually very similar to a border collie (highly intelligent) but unlike the collie they instinctively have a very protective streak of the herd and will protect it without fear. It is the combination of being easy to train/intelligent and being fearless and also being a physically agile and strong dog which make them ideal for police and army to use for security tasks. But they're were originally bred to herd and actually make a great family dogs and are great with young children.


    Dogs i would be warry around young kids would be dogs with "terrier" in its name. These dogs were bred to catch and kill other small things.



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,750 ✭✭✭✭EmmetSpiceland


    Out of curiosity, why are owners of “restricted breeds” so against putting a muzzle on the dog? It’s part of the terms and conditions of having a dog, of that nature, so why do you rarely see a muzzle?

    I can’t remember the last time I’ve seen a dog with a muzzle and, even then, it was on a greyhound type. Are greyhounds even restricted?

    Passing a pit bull type is unnerving at the best of times but passing one with a muzzle eliminates that completely.

    “It is not blood that makes you Irish but a willingness to be part of the Irish nation” - Thomas Davis



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,951 ✭✭✭D3V!L


    With regards to the muzzle, its actually the opposite to what you think. If i put a muzzle on my dog it tells people he needs it and is dangerous, even if he's not. Thats why we dont like using them.



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,939 ✭✭✭spookwoman


    This morning while driving, passed a bloke with a German Shepherd on a long lead and no muzzle. It's also can't remember seeing a restricted breed with a muzzle on when out in public.



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,750 ✭✭✭✭EmmetSpiceland


    But if the dog is a restricted breed then it does need it. Short strong lead, muzzle and over 16 years old are there main rules.

    If I see a muzzle on a dog I think responsible owner. The dog may, or may not, be dangerous but the owner is being considerate to others and following the rules they signed up to when getting a dog from the restricted breed list.

    “It is not blood that makes you Irish but a willingness to be part of the Irish nation” - Thomas Davis



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  • Registered Users Posts: 9,939 ✭✭✭spookwoman


    It doesn't matter what you think, it's the law.

    I know the English Bull Terrier, very unusual face and nanny dogs. One side of the family used to always have them and there are some stories. One was back in the 50's, a neighbours old english sheepdog was always wandering around the road and this one day got over the gate and into the relatives. The dog killed the sheepdog and dragged it into its bed. The neighbor couldn't say anything. The other was was back in the 80's or 90's and someone broke into the house and left the house a few pounds lighter. Lump of flesh was left behind as they tried to get out the window. These dogs were well trained and fantastic pets but by god a stranger did not enter the house without permission.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,951 ✭✭✭D3V!L


    Replace English Bull Terrier in that story with literally any other dog.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,346 ✭✭✭Jequ0n


    I would muzzle my dog if they had shown signs of aggression or anxiety before. They haven’t, but were attacked by other dogs (non restricted breed) in the past.

    It made more sense to make this a requirement for any dog that had shown aggressive behaviour outside, rather than an arbitrary list of breeds.



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,939 ✭✭✭spookwoman


    Not all breeds could remove a lump of flesh like that, just the ones with very strong jaws which is a bull terrier trait .



  • Registered Users Posts: 602 ✭✭✭zedhead


    I think it should be a requirement that all puppies be muzzle trained and are comfortable wearing one from a young age. Such stigma around muzzles in general they are so useful in a variety of scenarios and if they became more common place then the stigma would be gone. Not that all dogs need to wear them at all time, but you never know when it might be needed and having it normalised would make that easier.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,059 ✭✭✭xhomelezz


    By 2012, the Ontario Veterinary Medical Association estimated that the law had led to over 1,000 dogs and puppies in Ontario having been needlessly put down.

    Not even sure, about that period of time you've mentioned, think reporting dog bites in Toronto was a mess, from what I've been able to find. The biggest fook up in the legislation was, see bolded part

    In 2005, the province of Ontario, Canada, home to Toronto, enacted the Dog Owner’s Liability Act, which bans the ownership of pit bulls, Staffordshire bull terriers, American Staffordshire terriers, American pit bull terriers, and “a[ny] dog that has an appearance and physical characteristics that are substantially similar [to those breeds.]” 

    So there was puppies and dogs taken away from the owners for no reason.

    To serve no purpose, that's why BSL is absolutely useless.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,059 ✭✭✭xhomelezz


    All dogs should be muzzled in public. I have no problem to muzzle both of mine, even it's only one who needs to be muzzled by the law.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,987 ✭✭✭Former Former Former


    It made more sense to make this a requirement for any dog that had shown aggressive behaviour outside

    That basically gives every pit bull a free pass at savaging someone before you can take action.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,059 ✭✭✭xhomelezz


    I think you would be in for some surprise, even smaller ones would manage to take a nice chunk..



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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,951 ✭✭✭D3V!L


    So you say. Do you have anything to back up this story that took place 40 years ago ?



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