Cost of shed

I'd be a bit wary of doing that.

I wouldn't like the sound of crash barriers welded together for the roof. The risk of welds falling and the roof collapsing would be a concern.

Are any of the shuttered walls already there. You're only going to save on 6 rsjs max. I don't know how much 1 is but your talking savings of maybe a couple of hundred in the shed.

I'd price getting the job done without cost saving measures too. That way you'll see exactly how much your saving. It may not be that much.

I doubt you'd save anything bolting columns to walls, where the column would be would still have to be filed with concrete and rebar.

As for the crash barriers, unless your man is fierce tidy it'll look gunthered together and with the price of steel I wouldn't think there is a huge saving either.

I'd be more inclined to put in a footing for your wall and bolt the uprights to that. Let your floor run in over the footing then after. I've seen a few places where there was water making its way through the joint between the floor and wall when it's not stepped.

That’s a fabulous shed. Well done!

If done right they should be fine. 2-post car lifts are just bolted into the concrete and they would have a bit of tension on them. You wouldn't just bolt it to a 4" slab - it would need to be sufficiently deep to withstand the expected forces.

It can be done in a similar manner to this video @10:30 - although I'd probably have galvanised it and if the cones were turned upside down it would further prevent pullout. It takes a lot of force to strip a nut from thread so would be sufficiently strong:

I think @GERRY6420 used base plates for his slatted shed, but I think the floor level was above - couldn't see from video if they were bolted to the base plates.

Would a car life not just have fairly static and predictable loads against it though. At some stage someone is probably bump up against a girder or push dung against it when cleaning out a shed etc. Or even a big gust of wind catching the roof

Most industrial buildings are bolted to the ground, foundation pads are put in place with Rag Bolts in place to hold the base plates, good 9x3 timbers would span 16ft for trusses

Looks like I've misunderstood how this works. The cone is a removeable liner and allows for lateral movement when lining up the stanchion or whatever. Once removed the void can then be filled up.

When putting up the uprights, is it better to bolt them to a concrete base or dig a hole and set them in concrete?

This.

I'm doing a lean too, gona go up and over old roof and wer doing a wall at other side with steel reinforcing. Gona bolt rsj to top of this wall.

Absolute messing. And dangerous messing at that.

The shed structure of the shed ought to be designed by an engineer, or at least specified by a supplier of a portal frame shed that was actually properly designed day one. Not a cowboy who is going to guess the design by eye and cobble it all together from scraps of old crash barriers.

Bolting the columns to the tops of the walls would be useless, unless the bolts have serious embeddment down into the wall and are continuous with the reinforcement, which would need to be beefed up under that section of the wall.

From the sounds of your man, I'd say the wind would lift it up off the walls no bother.

What people need to realise, is it a building job and it is all well and good McIvoring things togther on the cheap, but if something goes wrong and there is an accident, the HSA will absolutely crucify you and everyone else invoved in the building. The HSA are ruthless when it comes to enforcing safety in the construction sector. I as state agencies go, they are second only to Revenue when it comes to ruthlessness.

They do not take any prisoners. They will do you for not having appointed PSDP/PSCS, for not having a appointed competent designer and contractor, for not notifying HSA of the project, and do you for not having CE marked structural steelwork. And anything else they can find when they come to investigate an incident.

Engage in yeehaw building work at your peril.

Whatabouterying it away like that won't do much good for you if you're up in front of a judge over an accident.

In this case, competent would mean either a structural engineer with experience of doing agri or portal frame structures, or an experienced farm building supplier/erector who is doing a system/modular buildings that were designed by such an engineer.

If you are building something on your farm, it is your responsibility to ensure that you stay on the right side of the Construction Regulations. As I said, the HSA take no prisoners. They will nail everyone to the wall if they have to come out to an accident.

Trust me, I have seen them in action. They are not a forgiving bunch at all. Like I say, they are on a par with Revenue. They don't just look at the part of the job that caused the accident - they go through the whole job top to bottom and everyone gets their penance for anything not in order, even if it had nothing to do with the incident.

From what I have read on this forum of farm building construction, HSA would have a field day on any of them. I have read all sort of mad sh!t that farmers were DIYing at.

Not necessarily incapable - it's more those days are gone/going. People are now quick to issue claims, Insurance companies are going to find any reason not to pay out. A competent designer will have the cover to deal with these claims. Any design they do will have avoiding claims in mind. The previous poster is correct about HSA. Like the tax man, I wouldn't want to give them an excuse to knock on my door.

An accident is different to failure of a design. You're playing the 'whataboutery' game as if this is some 'anti farmer' stance. It isn't, the world has changed and the OP's local lads suggestion is a recipe for disaster. What's the cost of doing it right V the cost of losing the farm over cutting corners?

You could use 16ft 9X3 timbers for the purlins if you built a back wall for the leanto. That way you could put in the 9X3s every 6ft. No steel needed at all

Reggie on here put a handy shed a while back with crash barriers ,photos and all .It looked a mighty job .I do not know how to put up a link to him ,someone might help

Not necessarily.

But one thing is for sure, a "lad starting out" is not competent to either design or build a farm building.

"A lad who is handy" might be considered somewhat competent by the man on the street, depending on his skill, but competence is a different kettle of fish when you are being prosecuted by the HSA. No way in hell would such a handy man satisfy the bar for competence.

Take this crash barrier shed. Lets say he builds it and all goes fine. Winter comes, and a storm rips a sheet of cladding off and it blows out onto the road and goes through the windscreen of a car. The investigation will look at why it came off the shed, and will see that it is a new build but essentially cobbled together from scrap barriers. They will try to establish who built it and who designed it. The handyman could easily see a day or two in court and wouldn't stand a chance, and the farmer client would get a conviction and fine for not ensuring the competence of his designer, contractor and for failing to make the project supervisor appointments.

I have also seen a case where short set of access steps to a piece of plant on a building was poorly placed meaning if a person slipped off of it they could fall out over a parapet wall and to the ground. And sure enough that did happen, albeit a good few years later. The HSA became involved and went into the history of it, and long story short, they designer/PSDP was prosecuted for creating an unsafe design as they failed to spot the design flaw which allowed this to happen.

Look at all the HSA prosecutions - everyone, EVERYONE, pleads guilty. You cannot and will not win a case taken against you by the HSA.

Bolting steel column plate to the top of a wall, well in principle it is the same as bolting to a concrete base, but in practice it makes a lot of difference. Thing is a base is a lot thicker and wider than a wall, so usually it is over engineered for what it has to do, even when built casually. And the base plate can be as wide as you want, but typically will be a little wider than the digger bucket that dug the hole

But a wall is much thinner, so is inherently weaker than a big wide lump of a base, and also then your base plate can only be as wide as the wall, meaning the pullout forces on the bolts are far, far greater because your lever arm is far shorter. And at mid way up a long, there is far more bending "force" in the wall/column assembly in reponse to wind and impacts, than down at ground level. This type of joint will be a massive weak point. Go look at some commercial portal frame buildings and see how often you see this detail - you'll be a while looking to see it, because no properly designed portal frame building will have it.

In theory you could do it, and engineer it so that it'll work - beefed up wall section into a thicker section with more reinforcement just under the column, essentially a concrete lower column. But the added complexity, time spent to design and do it properly, would work out far more expensive than the extra 2-3m of steel column. Add into the mix the reality that re-bar fixers are notoriously undependeable usually and don't do proper laps, or will just lob in whatever bars they have to hand, rather than what is supposed to be going into the reinforcement as designed.

Also, a rawlbolt is never suitable for bolting down 6-8m high columns.

As the saying goes, a little knowledge is a dangerous thing. You see this is actually it here..... you have "handy local lads" that get notions that seem to make sense. But they only think it's a good idea because they don't actually know know enough about it to realise that what they are doing is actually very poor practice structurally, and potentially extremely dangerous if it can't take the loads expected. They, and their clients, do not realise that they are dicing with their lives and the lives of others. Blissfully unaware.