New Children's Hospital - A symbol of Ireland's scandalous and shady behavior

What's that grey tower by the path on the top left of the picture? The structure that looks like Sauron's gaff, what's that for?

i think a long and lengthy inquiry will be needed maybe some findings reached and that will be the end of it

Yeah god knows the poor auld legal folks will be wanting some of that 'taxpayer footing the bill for Billions' action too

Sorry but you know nothing about the adversarial form of contract utilised here. You see a huge cost and think corruption, scandal when actually it isn’t. Besides anything else the cost of materials and labour had sky rocketed.

You're asking the wrong American.

Why don't we all simply live in cargo shipping containers, its cheaper, bla bla bla.

I believe there's a few eyesores in Dublin nobody is fond of, isn't/wasn't there?

Real answer: because it's a children's hospital not an office building. Maximizing space is not your only criterion.

473 in-patient beds I think? I think that's the same as the three hosps it replaces.

But 6,500 rooms altogether, it's a big building!!!

UPDATE:

"This 160,000m2 facility will feature over 6,000 rooms spread across seven storeys above basement, 380 individual in-patient rooms, each with an en-suite and bed for parent to sleep near their child, 60 critical care beds, 93 day beds and 22 operating theatres. It will also feature four acres of outdoor space with 14 gardens and courtyards, a helipad and 1,000 underground parking spaces."

It has been a complete disaster since inception and FG have lost control of the construction costs from the beginning. Some connected people are benefiting but I hope people do not forget the scandal and ongoing waste. Sure it's only for children and we know where they fit on the FFG priority list.

But why did they have to design it so stupidly like that at all? Why not just build a straightforward building. Why in the name of christ make some sort of trendy architectural statement that you can only see from the sky? Just build a hospital building, the kids and parents don't give a $hit what it looks like outside the thing once they can get the services inside it. Its a hospital, not a piece of jewelry.

Start your introspection around here I would guess

The Caduceus. Snakes entwined around a winged staff. Associated with Hermes and Mercury.

Anybody who thinks €2billion will have this hospital will be up and running is sadly naive. The building will cost that, if not more. Then there's the cost of kitting it out. And it won't be kitted out with stuff from the middle aisle in Aldi/Lidl. It'll easily cost another €1billion to kit out.

And then the craic will start when it opens. There'll be staffing issues. T'will be good fun trying to get in and out of the place with traffic etc. And when you get there, where will you park your car etc. Fcuking disaster of a site.

how much scope creep?

iirc the current projected cost is 2.4 billion and that doesnt include the fit out during which tons of very expensive medical equipment will go in. When all is said and done it will likely be over 3 billion if not 3.5bn. That is from an initial budget of 850 million in 2014. I see it now has its own entry on Wikipedias Worlds Most Expensive Buildings page

And while it will have a helipad Irish coastguard helicopters who provide air ambulance cover will not be able to land there. Instead they will have to land up the road outside the Modern Art museum in Kilmainham and children will then be transferred by road which is a farcical situation. The reason being is the Sikorsky helicopters used by the Irish coastguard are not rated to land on heli pads and they need flat ground to land. There is flat land on the site but the Aer Corps said the landing is too sketchy due to the density of buildings around the site and they advised against Irish coastguard helicopters attempting landings on the available land.

Now Im no brain surgeon but brain surgeons all say that when it comes to severe brain trauma and bleeding on the brain that time is absolutely critical and that minutes matter in terms of life and death. Yet the non use of the heli pad by the Coastguard will now add on minutes to getting a child into emergency surgery. Think about that is context of spending over 3 billion.

And you know where they did have space to easily land a Sikorsky Coastguard helicopter? Connolly Hospital with its 50 acres of unused land and which is also geographically closer to more than 75% of the entire Irish population

It includes the equipment apparently for all 3 sites.

Also I imagine existing equipment will be moved to the site once complete.

There is 300 million extra ear marked for the transfer and setting up of IT systems, etc.

I'd love to see the break down of that figure.

This is it in spades.

Bertie wanted the old boys in his old alma mater, the Mater (pun intended) to get the gig.

That would have given the Mater great status and of curse was linked to UCD so great bonus for them.

Of course the An Bord Pleanala scuppered that plan. And a lot of it had to do with skyline rather than total fook up of a site to access.

And then lo and behold the James site was selected as the perfect site, a large adult hospital linked to Trinity.

If it was so perfect why wasn't it selected in the first place rather than the cramped site at the Mater not on a Luas line?

Of course UCD were probably p***d so they of course had to get the new National Maternity hospital.

Who gave a fook if the trustees were religious and might forbid proper life saving healthcare for pregnant women if the old lad in Rome deemed it so.

I am surprised the usual suspects haven't been along to tell us how great it is, how we know nothing, how "experts" decided this was best.

Andy Renko will be along to give the usual spiel about how none of us are experts.

Some other lad will be telling us most people don't go to a hospital in a car (esepcially a children's hospital) and how lucky it is that the junkie luas line runs alongside of it.

Ehh they are purchasing a lot of new kit.

Hell by the time they are live most of the existing kit in other hospitals will be out of date.

Also some kit can't really be moved such as CTs/MRIs.

You can't move that stuff overnight.

Ah don't worry the migrant gravy train has docked for lots of them.

Also some kit can't really be moved such as CTs/MRIs.

Huh?

Used machines of that calibre are shipped around the world.

Folks for less than this hospital costs so far.

Australia got the Royal Adelaide Hospital for £1.2bn with 800 beds, all single rooms with ensuites, 40 operating theatres, robotic vehicles to move supplies, heat transfers, water harvesting, a twin elevated helipad capable of taking 11 metric tons.

And it has more than 1400 car parking spaces.

Dubai got the Burj Khalfi for £1.38bn, 830 metres high, 163 floors, world highest this that and the other including a helipad.

Britain got The Shard for £1.38bn the EU's tallest building until Brexit.

China got the Shanghai Tower for £1.7bn with the world's fastest lift.

South Korea got the Lotte World Tower for £1.8bn, 123 stories.

Malaysia got the Petronas Towers for £1.87bn

USA got the One World Trade Center for £2.8bn

In 2019 the cost for the New Children's hospital went from €650million to €1.4bn

That is some fooking miscalculation, some fooking project scope creep right there.

Now it looks like €1.73bn has been allocated, but estimates are it will be over €2bn

There will be 7 stories, 600 bed capacity, 380 individual inpatient rooms with ensuite and bed for parent, 22 operating theatres, 1000 car spaces

The elevated helipad can't take big helicopter like the Coastguard S92s

So far old Adelaide is much better value me thinks.

Oh and there will definitely be no fast lifts.

BTW the HSE said

... every construction project, big or small, receives claims and adjustments from the contractor; and this project has been no different. It said the project has “a robust process in place for the assessment of claims and adjustments by the contractor” and has extensive controls to help manage costs.

Who the fook are these clowns and why are they still in jobs.

It is times like this I think my idea of us going nuclear would be bad idea as it would probably cost 10 billion and take us 50 years.

I would hesitate to include places like Dubai in lists like this given the cost will be significantly decreased by (effective) slave labour and very lax health and safety laws.

What a terrible reading of the situation. Connolly has terrible public transport access, and the right place is to have it accessible by means other than car. The majority of patients are not there for emergency healthcare. Connolly is also a university teaching hospital so I don't get your UCD/Trinity thing you are trying to get at. Holles St. Is currently a UCD teaching hospital

Elm Park site has been leased, not to ensure a religious ethos, but so that the State cannot sell the land and use it for another non-healthcare purpose. The lands to be used would have been used by the hospital itself for its own future expansion. They want to ensure that if they give up.the land, that it remains a healthcare facility to enhance the existing hospital.

The **** stirring about NMH at Elm park is just that, **** stirring. The opposition is political opportunism mixed with nasty medical politics.

While the cost jump is a problem for me it’s not the biggest issue. The location is wrong and spending that sort of money to not have a hospital that provides many many more beds than already exist plus the helicopter issue and traffic issues and all the rest are more annoying than the cost for me. It’s criminal to not have every single benefit possible for that outlay.

Nothing now. It leaked at the time it was finished. I know neither are major issues but there was a bit of a hullabaloo about them at the time. The tunnel had to be shut not too long after opening for a while if I recall correctly to fix the issue.