Harry Dunn death

BattleCorp · 04-10-2022 10:40am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119699058#Comment_119699058

It's not quite as simple as you are portraying. It's an awful grey area. Both the US and the UK Government said she had diplomatic immunity at the time of the incident. On November 24th 2020 the UK High Court actually reaffirmed that she had diplomatic immunity at the time of the incident.

A court case in the US in 2021 throws a little bit of doubt on that UK High Court decision because it seems a lot depends on whether Sacoolas was the spouse of a spy or was a spy herself. It's all very muddy.

I'm not saying you are wrong, but it's certainly not clear cut.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/nov/24/harry-dunn-parents-lose-high-court-immunity-case

Potatoeman · 04-10-2022 10:45am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119699151#Comment_119699151

Interesting, that’s not how it was reported at the time.

Ten of Swords · 09-12-2022 11:45am

Sentenced to 8 months - suspended for 12 months

Basically walking away free

L1011 · 09-12-2022 11:48am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119697525#Comment_119697525

And that's what she got basically. Irish standard sentence; the UK usually goes a bit further though.

Potatoeman · 09-12-2022 12:03pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119974605#Comment_119974605

I thought she wasn’t even in court? She can video link from the US and never return.

Ten of Swords · 09-12-2022 12:12pm

Yep, here's the judge reading out the sentence to a laptop

https://www.bbc.com/news/av/uk-63909559

El_Duderino 09 · 09-12-2022 12:16pm

I just hope this satisfies the family and they can begin to move on. This is a much better outcome than most people ever expected. Sacoolas is a good sport to take part in the trial at all. Totally voluntary for her.

BattleCorp · 09-12-2022 12:46pm

I doubt the family will be satisfied with that result to be honest but it's the result I expected. And I think it's probably the right result to be honest.

Beasty · 09-12-2022 7:26pm

The family have made it clear they are satisfied with the result, and that this woman carries a criminal conviction for the rest of her life

They did wonders to get this to court in the first place and this result brings some kind of closure for them

11-12-2022 9:19am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119976771#Comment_119976771

Their persistence and unwillingness to settle for some generic response from the Home Office about diplomatic immunity is admirable. At least they can say that they did everything that possibly could be done to bring his killer to Court, and secure a conviction. What a cowardly, wicked woman, she left him to die on the road, then refused to face justice, thankfully this conviction will weigh on her for a lifetime.

El_Duderino 09 · 11-12-2022 10:24am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119982697#Comment_119982697

She chose to take the conviction. She didn't have to take part in it at all. I'm sure the US government wasn't keen on her taking any part in a trial as it sets a precedent. She deserves credit for that, at least

indioblack · 11-12-2022 4:19pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119982856#Comment_119982856

I disagree. She deserves no credit. She should have chosen to remain in the UK.

Manic Moran · 11-12-2022 5:00pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119699069#Comment_119699069

It's standard for family members to have diplomatic immunity. I held it due to a parent's assignment until I hit the age of 18 and had to turn in my diplomatic passport at that point.

El_Duderino 09 · 11-12-2022 6:28pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119984066#Comment_119984066

Ah, yeah but back in the real world, almost everyone would leave if they had the choice anf were encouraged by their governmentand the host government. Only on Boards, and other social media, would people claim they would voluntarily stay and face the music.

She did what most people would do in the same circumstances. It does t make it right, but it should be viewed in context.

11-12-2022 7:30pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119984552#Comment_119984552

In considering the context, we can draw a distinction between what she is entitled to do, and what justice for the victim would look like. Her family having to fight for three years for justice for their son is the context most would view this, they lost their son in the real world.

El_Duderino 09 · 11-12-2022 10:58pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119984788#Comment_119984788

Do you think getting this contrived suspended sentence via video conference is a bad result after 3 years? I'm pretty sure it's unprecedented and better than try could have reasonably hoped.

But you can't exclude what she is entitled to do from the context because its part of the context. Most people who face prison don't have to perfectly legal option to fly home and avoid the trial. That's the Context here.

Potatoeman · 12-12-2022 3:08pm

https://www.thejournal.ie/luas-jervis-street-1402287-Apr2014/

I can’t find the sentencing for this but the guy didn’t go to jail and had his license suspended. Running a red light would be seen as more intentional than driving on the wrong side of the road when you’re a tourist. I don’t think we are in a place to point fingers at sentencing.

12-12-2022 6:19pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119987689#Comment_119987689

She wasn’t a tourist.

31-12-2022 8:18am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119988480#Comment_119988480

Semantics.

The BBC reported that the Sacoolas family had only been in the UK for three weeks.

Also, she cooperated with the police at the scene of the accident. “she left him to die on the road” what do you mean by this? Are you mixing this up with another case?

31-12-2022 9:05am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120048786#Comment_120048786

Could there be a circumstance in which details are more important than the death of a young person?

She wasn’t a tourist turning out of an airport after picking up a hire car, it has now been confirmed she is a State Dept operative working in the intelligence community, we can only assume that some preparation is done before a posting. And the fact she was there three weeks is ample time to familiarise yourself with the side of the road to drive on.

No, I am not mixing this up with another case. In their Civil suit in Virginia, his parents claim that she left the scene after the accident while he was on the side of the road, her representatives have said she left and went to the nearby airbase and called the police from there, and it was not her who called the ambulance, a passer by did, even though she had a phone .

Her representatives statement is on this article confirming that she left him on the road and went to the base to phone the police even though she had a phone. “Anne made calls to alert the police from the nearby air force base.”

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/sep/11/harry-dunn-death-sacoolas-drove-on-wrong-side-of-road-for-20-seconds

This is a more recent decision in the US where the Judge refused to throw out the case, and refused her application to change the report on her actions in relation to phoning emergency services.

https://www.courthousenews.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/02/sacoolas.pdf

31-12-2022 10:37am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120048839#Comment_120048839

“And the fact she was there three weeks is ample time to familiarise yourself with the side of the road to drive on.”

What PhD have you done to back this up? Are you saying she killed him deliberately? Do you not accept it was an accident ? If you do your claim is moot. If you don’t think it was an accident elaborate.

Re her leaving the scene, that would be diabolical. That I imagine is the criminal element of the case… ‘leaving the scene of an accident.’ The question then is how often this involves a custodial sentence. I don’t know, but I doubt it was a 100% custodial rate before her case.

31-12-2022 10:50am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120049017#Comment_120049017

What? You are asking if I have a PhD? Seriously?

Like many people I have driven abroad, while it is odd the first time you do it, it doesn’t take most of us long to acclimatise to driving on the other side. Do I, or anyone else need a PhD to back that up? No, I suspect the fact we don’t all crash should be enough.

Of course I accept it was an an accident, but she is culpable, that does not mean she did it deliberately, her negligence caused it, and the Courts convicted her.

So you now accept she did leave the scene, after I quoted her representative, who acknowledged she left him on the road and drove away to the base to make a call, even though she had a mobile phone. And it’s a Civil case in the US, not criminal, she has already been sentenced to 8 months in prison, suspended in the UK. As for the rate of custodial sentences, I’ll leave that for you to look up mastermind.

It doesn’t take long to look this stuff about the case up you know.

Hotblack Desiato · 31-12-2022 12:33pm

Shitposting over a young man's death is a new low for CA/IMHO

31-12-2022 12:58pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120049071#Comment_120049071

“So you now accept she did leave the scene”

Calm down dear. Accept? it’s not for me to accept or otherwise. What’s your actual point here? She made a mistake by driving on the wrong side (your anecdote about your own experiences are irrelevant). But, you agree it was an accident.

So, again… what’s your point. If you think it should be a custodial sentence back it up with why that is the case. Or, take a lead from the unfortunate’s family, and consider justice done.

31-12-2022 1:14pm

Look, you got rinsed, you asked me if I had mixed his case up with another when I said she left him on the road dying, I didn’t, her own representative confirmed she drove away to the base and rang the police from there, even though she had a phone.

Now you want me to tell you why I think she should have hit a custodial sentence? Because the law allows for it.

”The maximum prison sentence the court can impose for causing death by dangerous driving or careless driving under the influence of drink or drugs is 14 years; for causing death by careless or inconsiderate driving it is five years; “

https://www.sentencingcouncil.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/FINAL-Death-by-driving-sentencing-leaflet-for-web1.pdf

She may have been convicted, but I suspect the family would have preferred Secoolas to stand in a British Court room, and for the sentence to be harsher, but they have accepted the judgment. The Civil Case however, continues, so obviously they still feel justice is not yet done.

31-12-2022 1:37pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120049499#Comment_120049499

I got rinsed? Is your purpose here to score points? I said the police said she assisted them at the scene of the accident- are you refuting that?

Just because the law allows something doesn’t mean it gets applied - that’s basic. I refer you to the word ‘can’. Why in your learned opinion do you think she deserves a custodial sentence, in line with general sentencing? If you cannot answer that you’re moaning over something you know nothing about. Nothing criminal about that, but own it.

As for civil cases… they are what they are. If they receive redress good for them.

Harry Dunn death

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