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Homeless homeowner

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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,985 ✭✭✭almostover


    So ban private ownership of property that is used for renting? Outright ban, no exceptions?



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,638 ✭✭✭...Ghost...


    Only a fool rents their property these days unless they own multiple properties and can take a hit on the occasional bad tenant or situation. The rules changing is one thing and while the trend of recent years is unpalatable to me (I am not a LL by the way), I do accept that rules change and they need to be adhered to. However, it is not acceptable to apply rule changes mid process. A process should end before the new rules apply. As the LL had issued notice under the rules which applied at the time, she should not have been subjected to the new arbitrary rules. It's only going to get worse because of the knee-jerk reactions by Government and the legacy failures of FF.

    Stay Free



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,089 ✭✭✭DubCount


    I am in favour of this eviction ban being lifted, as its doing more harm than good. I'm in favour of one set of rules being set out in legislation and left alone, in stead of constant tinkering and bowing to whatever populist kite is most recently being flown. I'm in favour of an efficient mechanism to evict non-paying, antisocial and overholding tenants.

    Back in the day we had lots of rental supply, lower rental costs, no RTB and none of this legislation. A rental lease was a contract between 2 adults who could make their own minds up on what was reasonable and unreasonable. If a tenant ended up with a rogue landlord, he/she would simply leave and rent somewhere else, because there was lots of supply. Thats what we need to get back to. We need de-regulation, not more "temporary measures".

    The responsibility to house people should rest with the government - not landlords. When a tenant rents a property - its not their permanent home - it should be their home for whatever length of contract they have signed up to with the landlord. We need increased supply of rental property, and making up new crackpot anti-landlord rules every couple of months sends supply in the wrong direction. The best way to protect tenants is more supply, and I reckon we need de-regulation to achieve that.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,985 ✭✭✭almostover


    A more balanced opinion in fairness to you. Is that what we really want in Ireland though. Institutional investment corporations owning large amounts of housing stock. Faceless corporations whose rasion d'etre is profit being our main source of rental property? The larger they get, the more power they will wield. Including political lobbying power.

    We need a balanced approach to the rental market where all have a part to play. Small landlords, large investments firms and government social housing. Putting all our eggs in one basket has led to and will lead to more problems.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,066 ✭✭✭HerrKuehn


    The rules and regulations are being put in place to make renting more attractive long term. Many people will be unable to afford to buy a property as they do not earn enough. So, they shouldn't have to deal with "rogue" landlords. If they are renting, they should be able to live in the property for a long time. Renting a property out to pay the mortgage while you are away is not a great idea.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,066 ✭✭✭HerrKuehn


    The benefit of "faceless corporations" providing rentals is that they won't need the property back because their son needs it, or they want to sell up. They will normally be pension funds looking for long term (> 30 years) investments. There is a benefit to this arrangement for the renter.



  • Registered Users Posts: 25,006 ✭✭✭✭zell12


    Yep she is actually telling young people to go abroad due to her experiences



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,985 ✭✭✭almostover


    That needs to be fixed though. There is a contract for both sides of a rental. The tenant is responsible for paying their rent in full and on time, to keep the property in good order and pay their utility bills. The landlord too must abide by their contractual obligations.

    A friend's father rented out a small cottage that was his mother's. He accepted HAP tenants and they wrecked the place. It took him 7-8 months of major hassle to get them out and it cost him €10k to renovate the property, such was the damage caused. He also had issues collecting rent all through the tenancy. The issue is that a landlord has zero recourse against bad tenants. We're too soft on that sort of carry on, same witb people who don't pay their mortgages.

    Unfortunately it's the people who abide by the rules that seem to get shafted when it comes to housing in Ireland.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,985 ✭✭✭almostover


    But those pension funds have only one goal, get the maximum returns for their investors. If that means upping rents, so be it. If it means selling property and investing in another country, so be it. They have a part to play, but not on their own.



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,513 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    Though I don’t think an outright ban is likely or advisable, I do think you are right in a sense, rentals in Ireland is now probably best left to the corporates who can whether market fluctuations, keep rents high, run it with efficient and timely increases, not to mention buy up whole new developments and set the initial rents on all at market value. It is time for small LLs to leave the sector, sell their property at the market peak, maximising profit, and at the same time contract the rental market to the point where corporates, being the only show in town, make further enormous profits.

    I like your style.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 25,006 ✭✭✭✭zell12


    I have to say the host Claire Byrne is pretty balanced on this topic. I'm shocked!



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,066 ✭✭✭HerrKuehn


    Oh, I agree. I am not a landlord, but if I was, I would try to avoid letting to someone on welfare. The main reason being that if they were to wreck the place they would not have the means to pay for it. If you rent to a young professional, it should be possible to get some/all of the money back. It is is just a simple fact. It seems to often be the case that €5 a week is ordered to be paid, which in the case you mentioned would take 38 years to pay back the 10k!

    The thing is large landlords with many properties can afford to take this risk and this is where we are moving to.



  • Registered Users Posts: 25,006 ✭✭✭✭zell12


    Dept of Housing says this landlord might be eligible for HAP even if she has a property!



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,066 ✭✭✭HerrKuehn


    But landlords will try to avoid taking her 😂



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,273 ✭✭✭The Spider


    Little matter of the constitution and the right to own property, ANY property!



  • Registered Users Posts: 21,989 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    She owns an asset that is not available to her to live in.



  • Registered Users Posts: 29,386 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    ah its train wreck, the system is geared towards continually screwing small landlords, and encouraging larger institutional ones....



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Ahh selective quoting the master of misinterpretation strikes again.

    I believe as you do that the terms of a contract should be honored as do most posters on that other thread. Generally if the terms of a contract are changed/breached you have at a minimum the opportunity to walk away if you do not agree to new terms. Most of the posters in that thread also believe that when the state change legislation regarding rentals that the landlords just need to suck it up and get on with it, I was pointing out that if the state change the terms of business the landlords should have the opportunity to decide if they still want to operate under the new legislation. A change in legislation is not a valid reason for serving notice and legislation is pushed through quicker than valid notices can be issued. Recent legislation has been designed to force landlords to remain in the rental market and ongoing discussions are around forcing anybody with additional properties to become landlords by introducing penalties on those who fail to do so.

    Nobody would take issue with changes to legalization once its balanced and well thought out but I don't think any rational person can argue that is the case with the current government when it comes to the rental market. The changes by the state are very frequent I regularly receive documentation from the RTB regarding changes to rental legislation. You are fortunate that you don't have any skin in the game, if you have trouble understanding my previous post you would have a stroke trying to interpret some of the documents the RTB send my way.

    I'm well aware tax is due on income, my tax bill every year is eye watering but as per usual you are trying to twist comments to help you grab a few thanks from other boards users. What I pointed out was that landlords contribute a significant amount of taxes and fees every year but what are they getting in return? The state is very active in protecting tenants rights but have there been any positive updates to legislation regarding landlords rights in the last few years?

    From your other posts I'm aware that you are not a fan of small landlords and you feel that if a landlord is not capable of keeping up with the constant changes in legislation they should just leave the market which was happening in droves, that's why we are in the middle of an eviction ban now. The returns on individual rentals are small at 3-5% depending on the property and location, frankly that's not enough money for the effort required to be a landlord anymore. The only people making serious money on rentals now are the investment firms as you need the scale and the resources they have to make it worthwhile, but they have also been the main driver in rents rising by 80% over the last few years and I'm sure they plan on squeezing more out of renters if they can.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,170 ✭✭✭✭Furze99


    I think you're right, increasing regulation hasn't worked for the overall benefit of having a reasonable supply of rental property. Started in some way with the Greens and the ban they led on 'bedsits'. The accommodation that bedsits provided wasn't always ideal but it was readily available and reasonably priced, suited a great many. And regulation has grown apace since, resulting in less supply and unaffordable prices that the state has to prop up with HAP. Thank you Green Party from the leafy suburbs.

    Heard the woman Janette on earlier, sounded fairly reasonable and empathetic towards her tenant and tenants too. She made the reasonable point that you'd want to be well up on the law to consider renting now.

    The poster above is also correct, mad to rent now if you only have one dwelling. What a f***ed state we live in.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 39,714 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    She gave the tenant an invalid eviction notice. It is all her fault. Not the government's or anyone elses! Had she been professional and got a solicitor to deal with a matter that she clearly did not understand then this could have been avoided!




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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,066 ✭✭✭HerrKuehn


    The thing is, the government is looking to move away from shorter (a few years) type lettings. We need to have a more mature rental market like they have in Germany for example, where people can live for 20 years or more in the same apartment. Institutional investors are best place to provide this type of arrangement. The small landlord type model might have been ok when the expectation was that renting was a temporary arrangement.



  • Registered Users Posts: 75 ✭✭Unsupervised




  • Registered Users Posts: 75 ✭✭Unsupervised


    And that is exactly how it should be.

    Currently anyone can become a landlord which leads to these issues.

    becoming a landlord should be treated as a business and the property’s should be listed as a type of business unit for living rather then a home.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Why not let a lease agreement determine the length of the rental? Why not let the lease determine all the terms of the rental? At the end of the day its two adults signing the agreement if one party is not happy with the terms walk away.

    For the most part I have no problem with long term rentals, I've have two separate rentals that have had the same tenants for over ten years. Granted I'm effectively subitizing their rents as they are in RPZ but that will be rectified when they leave but it means that each property will have to stay vacant for two years.



  • Registered Users Posts: 777 ✭✭✭machaseh


    There should be socialized housing for people on welfare and with that I don't mean a flat that's half falling apart in Ballymun or Darndale but proper high quality socialized housing. They shouldn't be dependent on renting in the private sector for housing.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    If it was being treated like a business landlords would have more dominion over how they run it, if it was being run as a business more landlords would be in the short term rental business to maximize returns. Renters and the state don't want that, they want it to be run like charities.



  • Registered Users Posts: 777 ✭✭✭machaseh


    Yeah I would love to put double glazing and insulation in this kip that I am renting from my rogue Irish slumlord but what's the point if I could be served notice any time? Sure there's an eviction ban right now but that won't be permanent either.



  • Registered Users Posts: 33,650 ✭✭✭✭Penn


    That was the bit I lost any sympathy I had for her. If the tenant was on board with the eviction, they wouldn't have gone to whatever "charity" they did who pointed the eviction notice she'd sent was invalid, and then realising it was an invalid eviction notice would have just went along with it anyway.

    I'd love to hear the tenant's side of things, but for some reason I doubt they'll be allowed the media tour that she's on.

    Post edited by Boards.ie: Mike on


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,066 ✭✭✭HerrKuehn


    I suppose the rental market has a social function in a way that say, the car rental market, does not. The idea is to have the potential for indefinite leases, with the possibility to break, like we have with part IV. I am not sure if the penny has dropped yet for some people, but a significant proportion of the population will remain in private rentals for their whole lives. This is a relatively phenomena here in Ireland, but it is the way things are going.

    So, with all the additional regulations it does not make much sense to be a small landlord anymore, unlike 15 years ago, as you are finding out it seems.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,273 ✭✭✭The Spider


    So tax them as a business then, can’t have it both ways



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