Marathon Improvers Thread.

I am doing Chicago in 2023.

Up to now my running has really been around club sessions when not in a marathon training block so no real goals to them

What do others do in their "pre marathon" training block? Looking at dates at the moment I could turn my existing mainaintace training into a base building block, followed by an 18 week half marathon plan and then a 18 week marathon plan? Does that sound reasonable or stupid?

My normal weekly mileage is around 30 miles which goes up to 50 for the marathon block

Thanks for that, I suppose building the base is a better idea.

Your log is very interesting, you do quite a bit of mileage! It makes for interesting reading.

My year went well up until the last 5 miles of Dublin 😂. Boston was won't be forgotten, a tough run but I at least expected it.

5m PB in June 34:19 I think.

10m PB in August 71:xx which I then beat during the Dublin HM, crossing the 10m in just over 69 mins.

HM PB from 1:34:59 to 1:31:25 in September.

PB'd the first 20 miles of Dublin before crashing to earth!

Next year: London in April. Plan (PD this time I think) starts officially next week but realistically I won't get into it until after Christmas. I have an entry for Donedea again in February, but I may scrap that as I really want to target 3:20 for London. DCM next year will be run for fun, I've had enough of struggling in that one. I'm in for Ecotrail 80k in September, but will see how the training goes in the summer and will drop down to the 46k if I don't feel ready.

A perfect year for me really. No injuries and my highest ever mileage at roughly 2200 miles for the year. It was the second full year of consistent training after a few years of doing very little running due to a litany of injuries so the base was pretty good heading into 2022.

I brought my 5k time down from 16:47 to 16:41 in May and then got it down to 16:29 at Jingle Bells a couple of weeks ago. This is probably my favourite distance so I plan to focus on lowering it further in the first half of next year. The goal would be sub 16, I guess, but I'm a long way off that at the moment.

I had a couple of attempts at improving my 10k pb and managed to get that down to 35:58 in April. There's still lots of room for improvement there.

I cut a minute or so off my 10 mile PB in July, taking it to around 57:30.

I ran mid 1:18 for the half in Mullingar in March and then got down to mid 1:17 in Tullamore in August during my marathon block.

The main focus of my year was the Amsterdam marathon and that couldn't have went any better as I hit my A goal of sub 2:45, running mid 2:44 which took a big chunk off my previous PB of 2:57 (although that was from 2016 so before supershoes).

I'm signed up for Berlin 2023 where I'd be optimistic of getting into the 2:3x range if I can get another year of solid mileage behind me. Before that I'll be focusing on lots of 5-10k stuff and a bit of cross country and I'll shift the emphasis to longer stuff in late spring and try and roll from a half marathon block into a marathon block as I did this year.

Does anyone have any preference for 12 week over 18 week plans? I've always gone for 18 week, but I'm wondering if I was in better shape for the Dublin HM this year, 6 weeks before DCM.

You did very well.

My year went very well too.

Took my HM PB from 1:53:04 to 1:45:25 in Cork in June and to 1:43:05 In Waterford at the start of September.

After the Cork Half I decided to concentrate on Dublin and try and get sub 4. I had planned to do the Kerry Way Ultra Lite in September too but Keep the Main Thing the Main Thing is ingrained in me from Boards so I deferred that and gave Dublin my all and took my PB from 4:03:04 to 3:45:58.

I then took 1 min 3 seconds off my 5Km PB on November 20th going from 23:37 to 22:34. That was just on the back of marathon training and had hoped to take another few seconds off in the Togher 5Km on the 27th December but unlikely now as have a few niggles going on with my hip and achilles and now a head cold so the specific training I’d planned hasn’t happened. My body needs a rest.

Next years targets are to PB over all distances on the way to hopefully taking a substantial amount off my marathon PB again. I’m working hard on strength work again, will tighten up nutrition in January and get back to running properly then too hopefully. There’s a few 10 milers In February and March and my 10 mile PB is very soft. I’d love to know what I’m really capable of marathon wise. I’m registered for Dublin and don’t intend doing a marathon before September to really work on speed and base and Dublin isn’t the most ideal for the best PB but not sure if I should pick another. Plenty time to decide that.

Best of luck. I only went sub 4 this year but this thread is for everybody.

DCM was a disaster for most last year so don't be too hard on yourself.

I'm currently suffering from the flu that's going around or COVID, not sure which. Once it clears I'll get back out

Sub-4 thread is here: https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2057865918/the-sub-4-support-thread/p1

Although marathon performances tend to improve quite dramatically as you develop as a runner, achieving a big marathon goal, especially after running one that went wrong, is often about facing up to any weaknesses that might have been in your approach previously (e.g. training at unsustainable paces, lack of mileage, poor nutrition and hydration etc etc.). These are all things that the Improvers Thread and the Sub-4 thread can help with.

Good luck!

I am enjoying his stuff the last while.

Tempo would be considerably faster (although tempo is defined differently by different coaches).

Lydiard's base training incorporates lots of steady work. Most marathon plans do too I'd say. The Hansons long run is at steady pace, for example. But yeah, I'd say once or twice a week is plenty for steady work.

Advice is good and enjoying his videos but there seems to be a mismatch between his joggingroom sales pitch and then scaling off his paces.

His defn of steady pace is 20% slower than his marathon pace which might be reasonable at 5/6 mins per mile but he's a marathon pro. If my marathon pace is around 8min/mile for a 3:30 time, previously I'd have just described that as "steady" and be delighted to just hold that for marathon duration. 20% slower again seems to be well up into easy territory. I'm not sure how much easier he thinks my easy easy then needs to get - as I can feel form disappearing at 10+ min/mile.

Probably just means my MP should be faster to circle round to his pace scaling.

Hey folks, quick question.... hopefully...

Im running Donadea on the 12Feb and I'm doing Boston in April.

Has anyone got a good idea of a plan I can fit in for the 9 weeks between the two races ? Maybe keeping the volume up or with some sessions etc.

My last few plans have been Hal Higdon via the app, including my current 50km plan.

My last marathon (other than long training runs) was Dublin in October and I ran 3:48 in that. I'd like to do better in Boston if I could , buts it's not my priority.

Any and all advice is welcome.

Ahh haaa..you are right. Silly me, I had considered the taper for Boston in that 9 weeks but not the recovery for Donadea. Although I was in pretty good shape and well rested a week after Donadea last year.

Yeah, maybe just keep the volume up and not go crazy. Like you said, I won't really be able to make any real gains to my current time in such a short period.

Thank you. I appreciate the input.

Are you sure Amsterdam is sold out this early for an October marathon.

Yeah, I don't think it sold out last year so would be surprised.

Regarding Lisbon, it's a very hilly city so can't imagine it's the fastest course.

Cheers guys,

I had difficulty twice trying to complete registration so googled whether it was sold out. Result came back that it was but have just copped it was relating to a previous year.

Delighted obv. Will attempt registration again this evening.

The best value watch out there for running is the Coros Pace 2. Less than €200 and amazing functionality.

Yeah, it's a great watch. Have mine two years and battery life is still excellent. I really like the Coros app too. The workout planner is fantastic.

I agree, steady being about 20 to 30 seconds slower than MP.

The Marathon plans I've followed recently all had steady runs built in. These plans (based on the BAA online plans) are usually 11 days every 14 of running so its easy to fit a steady run in.

For example I had a 9 mile session last night - 2 mile easy- then 1 mile at 10k pace(6.45/m) with 3 minutes rest x 4 reps - then 400m at 5k(6.00 to 6.15/m) pace x 4 reps followed by 1 minute rest and 2 mile cool down.

Today I have an easy 6 mile recovery(8.15 -8.30 depending on the shoe)

Tomorrow I will do a steady 6 mile(7.45) with a session on Friday( with 2 x 3mile hmp(6.55 ish) reps), easy Saturday and long Sunday session.

PMP is 7.15.

In fact there's even a steady 20 miler later in the plan, to the OP I would say don't be afraid to introduce steady running, fit them in but not at the expense of easy.