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EU Bribery Scandal

  • 13-12-2022 1:56am
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,109 ✭✭✭SafeSurfer


    €633,000 in cash just “resting” in an MEP’s apartment. Is this a one off or the tip of a large EU government scandal?

    Multo autem ad rem magis pertinet quallis tibi vide aris quam allis



«1

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,831 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    I wasn't aware the EU had a "government".



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,109 ✭✭✭SafeSurfer


    Multo autem ad rem magis pertinet quallis tibi vide aris quam allis



  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators Posts: 10,718 Mod ✭✭✭✭Jim2007


    Educate yourself on how the EU is run. There is no point in trying to have a worthwhile debate with someone who does not have a grasp of the basics.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,039 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    MEPs are not actually part of the EU and represent their home political party instead. Ones that are on the make or taking bribes probably don't even like the EU and just see the Parliament as a meal ticket.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,654 ✭✭✭kyote00


    It’s all Greek to me



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,551 ✭✭✭kaymin


    What's the issue? Per dictionary government is the exercise of political authority over the actions, affairs, etc, of a political unit, people, etc, as well as the performance of certain functions for this unit or body; the action of governing; political rule and administration.

    MEPs make EU laws some of which are directly applicable to EU states without needing to be transposed.

    Anyway, pretty damning news and seems to be the tip of the iceberg. Any MEP promoting Quatar's 'transformation' should be looking over their shoulder.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 41,480 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    So one potentially corrupt MEP? That's it?

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Subscribers Posts: 42,581 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    So what's all this about then, who are the EU bribing and for what?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,152 ✭✭✭Allinall


    What's wrong with having €630,000 in cash in your apartment?


    Is that all they have?





  • It’s hard to generalise about political culture in the European Parliament because effectively you’re seeing MEPs who’ve mostly been brought up though one of 27 different domestic political cultures. Some of those have more tolerance of and more corruption issues than others.

    It also tends to be very heavily targeted by lobbyists, both operating normally, transparently and very visibly, and those who might be less scrupulous.

    A lot of the topics the EU deals with can sometimes seem quite tedious to domestic press, but they’re often very significant regulatory issues for sectors and individual businesses.

    Then because it’s not that heavily covered in most domestic media, it’s not as scrutinised most of the time.

    The fact that this was properly exposed i a good thing as it’s showing that the EP is being scrutinised more and also that it’s going to have to scrutinise itself a lot more too. That’s probably part of its evolution as a parliamentary system too.

    I’d be more worried if I was seeing no noise at all in terms of corruption being exposed at the EP.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,726 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    Well there are a couple of others I can think of who have gone to extraordinary efforts to support Russia in this time of it's great need. It might be prudent to extend the scope of the enquiry to encompass MEPs who seem to exert more effort in furthering the interests of non EU countries, than their.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 61,272 ✭✭✭✭Agent Coulson


    I wonder what Clare & Mick think about this.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,726 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    Qatar might have been bribing the vice president of the European Parliament, and possibly others.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 41,480 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    Could be worse.

    Here in the UK, they get peerages and nobody in the media asks questions.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,258 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    It's basically the Qataris trying to buy influence. It's concerning, but not altogether surprising.

    The amount involved is very large, but otherwise this is not dissimilar from things we have seen more than once in national parliaments. In fact most national parliaments have a mechanism for MPs to declare the donations, freebies, etc, they get from people hoping to secure their attention or influence, and where there's a scandal it's usually not because a wodge of money was handed over but because the MP concerned failed to declare it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,054 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    The lobbying industry in Brussels is immense, and you would have to be very naive to think it does not veer in to corruption more than occasionally.

    25k lobbyists do their work in Brussels according to the Economist.


    This is tip of the Iceberg and was on a topic of no commercial value.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,145 ✭✭✭Doc07


    Was thinking something similar. The arrest and sacking of this politician has happened quickly. (Whether it’s tip of the iceberg stuff of few bad eggs etc all needs to be investigated properly of course)

    However if a similar type of bribe/incentive/‘gift’ was made to an Irish politician I would not be at all confident an immediate expulsion/sacking/arrest as appropriate would follow. I do think we have a functional and largely honest parliament and democracy but we also have members of the Dail who have been caught red handed taking large gifts and a very active image rehabilitation ongoing for a former Taoiseach who did the same.



  • Posts: 0 Lexie Rapid Point


    I had to experience CD’s brand of politics when she was president of DCU student union. Back then it was constant attempts to rouse up the downtrodden student masses to stick it to the man, much to the indifference of the student body.

    In all fairness, she has been consistent in her politics down the years. It would appear that the current corruption raids were based on well founded evidence, as it is quite a move to make based on suspicion only.

    To look to persecute someone based on their political opinion is not a good idea. Much better to express opinions come election time.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 41,480 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    That's it. The EU is in many ways more democratic and accountable than a lot of European countries, particularly the UK. In the UK, this person would get a peerage if they're sufficiently loyal to the PM.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 478 ✭✭Run Forest Run


    I would say the same for people who always seem to insist on dragging a debate into pointless semantics, rather than discussing the actual issue.

    The EU has a system of governance.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,054 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    Continental Europe would have a much bigger corruption problem than Ireland, especially in France, Italy, Belgium, Spain, Austria, Germany has significant problems in its Landesbanks, and then there is Eastern Europe and the Med. at a whole different level.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,173 ✭✭✭tabby aspreme


    Its not easy to run 3 houses on an MEP's salary, you should try it sometime



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 41,480 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,726 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    The EU forms and enacts legislation and has a legal system to oversee it and enforce adherence. It even has something called a parliament. That's close enough to the functions and appearance of a government that I wouldn't be lecturing people and arguing the toss.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,039 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    But the vice president of the European Parliament is an MEP of course. If we found out that the Qataris had been bribing Ursula von der Leyen or one of the EU Commissioners, this would be a scandal of a whole different order.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,360 ✭✭✭deirdremf


    I'd say this will end up in the European courts. AFAIK and I'm open to correction of course,, the Chair of the European Parliament decided unilaterally to withdraw parliamentary immunity from Kaili, using an emergency procedure for people caught in flagrante - ie, in the actual course of committing a crime. As I understand it, Kaili's crime (assuming she committed one!) had been committed at some point in the past.

    As a result, Kaili is very likely to contest her decision, all through the Belgian courts and on through the EU Court of Justice etc if need be.

    While the evidence against her seems strong, the incorrect use of procedures could lessen the impact on her, or at least return her immunity while the business goes through the courts. That could take years. It could also leave Metsola in a dificult place.

    This clearly doesn't affect the others involved in the case, who would not have had immunity as they are not MEPs.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    you're the first to highlight whataboutery and yet here we are.

    Four MEPs are arrested, one of whom is the vice president of the EU parliament. That's pretty significant stuff, wouldn't you agree?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 437 ✭✭TipsyMcStagge


    Nothing whatsoever to do with them it was friend of the west Qatar doing the bribing.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 437 ✭✭TipsyMcStagge


    Some Irish people believe that the EU is a utopia and that no wrong doing can occur within it's institutions.



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,039 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    But MEPs don't work for the EU. The European Parliament contains everything from the far right to the far left. It would be like claiming that some independent TD (or TDs) being found to have accepted bribes would somehow be a slur on the Dáil or the Irish state.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I fail to see your point?

    I will correct my earlier statement though.

    An EU Parliament Vice President, an EU parliament MEP, an EU MEP's accredited assistant (who is the assistant to the arrested MEP and the spouse of the Vice President) and one further assistant have all been arrested. this i serious stuff, is it not?

    Or are you just going to trot out the "Nothing to see here" line?



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 41,480 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    And some Irish people think that Ireland should sacrifice its freedom and prosperity to become a vassal to the former imperial power that raped and pillaged it repeatedly.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 437 ✭✭TipsyMcStagge


    But it would be a slur on the state that one of of its reps was found taking bribes. Michael Lowry is a continuing stain on the state and its reputation.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,039 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    Trying to say that this is an "EU corruption" scandal would really be stretching things. There are probably many MEPs who hate the EU and European Commission as much as Nigel Farage and the Daily Express do. Even the European Parliament vice president is still an MEP primarily and not working for the EU 'per se'.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 437 ✭✭TipsyMcStagge


    I wonder how much that charlatan ex Brit army thug Craughwell trousered for that?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 437 ✭✭TipsyMcStagge


    A very small minority do yeah, I certainly don't but most sensible people can be critical of the EU when it is justified to be so especially in a case like this.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,039 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    That, I would agree on, yes. It's definitely a stain on the European Parliament as a whole if they have corrupt MEPs among their ranks and it doesn't look good that a vice president might be involved.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    an EU Parliament vice president and the Chair of the human Rights sub committee, who also founded a Brussels based human rights NGO which names several past and present EU officials on its board are arrested and charged with corruption.

    You do have to wonder how much money the EU has given to Fight Impunity to fund its work and if this NGO is also involved. Certinly plenty of the board members seem to be jumping ship.

    This is very much an EU scandal.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 41,480 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    Not a small minority here though. Fairly standard nationalist fare these days.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,273 ✭✭✭xxxxxxl


    Really what party will we be voting for it it's so popular ? If it was a large enough issue there would be talk of leaving. All the major parties must be missing a trick for votes.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,039 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    There are clearly issues with lobbying and / or bribes in the European Parliament, though how widespread remains to ascertain. There are 700 MEPs but only a small number of implicated ones - it seems the Qataris may have been engaging in the equivalent of "sports washing" i.e. trying to improve their image on the international stage, perhaps get these guys to speak up in favour of the country in the Parliament or something.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 728 ✭✭✭20Wheel


    Classic story hyped as sexy scandal.

    Oooh a politician found taking backhander.

    Why I never.

    Give me a random national newspaper.

    Putin is a dictator. Putin should face justice at the Hague. All good Russians should work to depose Putin. Russias war in Ukraine is illegal and morally wrong.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,273 ✭✭✭xxxxxxl


    Eu is made out to be incorruptible and a bastion of freedom Everything they do and say is for the common good of the EU. Even Euronews is reporting it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 728 ✭✭✭20Wheel


    Putin is a dictator. Putin should face justice at the Hague. All good Russians should work to depose Putin. Russias war in Ukraine is illegal and morally wrong.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,039 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    But this is not a story about the EU. Nigel Farage and Ann Widdecombe could theoretically have been two of the MEPs accepting bribes from the Qataris at some point....would that prove the EU was corrupt?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,258 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    It would prove there was corruption in the EU institutions, yes. Just as the events which actually have happened show that there is corruption in the EU institutions.

    It would be a big mistake, though, to suggest that EU institutions are inherently corrupt, or are corrupt in a way that the institutions of national governments are not. The combination of incentives which produces corruption in the EU institutions exists also, and perhaps even more strongly, at the national level, so it would be very surprising if there were not similar problems in national governmental institutions. The acid test is not whether there is corruption, or potential corruption, but how it is dealt with.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,273 ✭✭✭xxxxxxl




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,797 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    who has made out that the EU is incorruptible? do you have any idea how stupid that sounds?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 728 ✭✭✭20Wheel


    If one were to hang out with Howard Marks, and cheech and chong, thats a sort of a tacit confession that one might smoke the odd joint.

    EU has Greece and Bulgaria as members.

    Thats kind of a confession in itself.

    Putin is a dictator. Putin should face justice at the Hague. All good Russians should work to depose Putin. Russias war in Ukraine is illegal and morally wrong.



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