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Homeless homeowner

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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,066 ✭✭✭HerrKuehn


    The eviction ban still had notice before it was signed into law. It wasn't overnight, you didn't wake up one morning having never heard wind of it with it signed into law did you?

    Why would I care about forced pension legislation coming in? Not sure what relevance it has, laws and regulations change, just a fact of life.



  • Registered Users Posts: 437 ✭✭TipsyMcStagge


    That's just not true when a landlord sells a property they don't take the property with them it is either bought by another LL thus returning to the rental market or bought by owner occupiers who were previously in the rental market. As for small LL's leaving the property empty they must be incredibly wealthy to be able to afford to do that clearly they are not being taxed enough if that is the case!



  • Registered Users Posts: 437 ✭✭TipsyMcStagge


    If you actually she is sleeping in her car then I've got a bridge in London to sell ya.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,066 ✭✭✭HerrKuehn


    No and neither are landlords, it is just restricted in RPZ. Just to be clear, I am not saying it is exactly the same as employment, it is just used as a counter to the landlords whinging that nobody else ever has the rules changed mid agreement. It happens all the time.

    Also, I am not against landlords, I have my own house and haven't rented for more than 10 years. If the conditions were more favourable I might even get involved myself. But here is the thing, the rules have been changing for several years to favour insitutional landlords who are more professional. They can deal with the risk of non paying tenants. They can deal with the changes in rules. I think this will eventually lead to a better and more stable rental market. They will probably even be so professional that they will get an actual solicitor to write a valid termination letter.



  • Registered Users Posts: 19,538 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump



    Some are if they are in regulated industries. e.f if I own a company with a load of taxi's/hackeys



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  • Registered Users Posts: 437 ✭✭TipsyMcStagge


    The small landlord propagandists are busy on this thread I'll give them that. You'd swear they were housing the vulnerable free of charge the way they go on when in actual fact they are making profit obscene profits in some cases for doing nothing, they in fact take money out of the economy. All they do is go to a bank for a big loan use the banks money to buy property then rent it out to desperate people use their money to pay back the bank and expect a healthy profit on top the whole time with no government interference or tax on that whatsoever! Not only that they expect to own the asset outright after someone else has paid the mortgage and to make a tidy profit on that as well all for doing fcuk all in the first place. That is pure parasitical behaviour.



  • Registered Users Posts: 19,538 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump



    Nobody is forced Ray.


    This is what you said about the old lady:

    There are lots of barriers to stop being a landlord and more and more added. I know an old lady who wants sell her rental but she will have to pay CGT on it which would be very high. As she want to leave her estate to her child if she sold it and kept the cash or invested it the child would also pay inheritance tax on it. By keeping it a rental tax only gets paid once.


    You argument appears to be:

    1) that it's not fair being an investor in X because if she sells X she'll have to pay CGT on her capital gains. (I use X because you mean it for a house, but the same argument can be made for any capital investment)

    2) That if she sells the house (so that she is no longer a landlord) then the child has to pay inheritance tax on it if the money is left to them..............inheritance tax is paid on the value of the inheritance, regardless of the form the wealth is held in



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,385 ✭✭✭Ray Palmer


    It came in overnight. Saying it is being considered is not a discussion with the providers. Have you any other examples of such rushed legislation or not? What other industries have had such poor behaviour by the government?

    There is a regulation change meaning your salary will no be garnished for a forced pension scheme. It is a legal change that will effect every worker without discussion .



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 39,714 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    It came in overnight. Saying it is being considered is not a discussion with the providers. Have you any other examples of such rushed legislation or not? What other industries have had such poor behaviour by the government?

    It had to come in overnight. One could easily point out that had sufficient notice been given then some unscrupulous landlords would feck people out without notice. If you don't like the legislative framework around rentine then choose a different business.

    There is a regulation change meaning your salary will no be garnished for a forced pension scheme. It is a legal change that will effect every worker without discussion .

    The moratorium is nothing like a salary cut and is wrong to make such a comparison. The LL's business is still being paid - they just cannot evict someone for a few months while there is a cold winter coupled with a cost of living crisis on top of increased fuel and food prices driven by the war in Ukraine. Then to make things worse, we have a ton of people displaced from their homes in Ukraine who we've taken in.

    As for a mandatory pension scheme - this might be a good thing!



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,513 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    HerrKeuhn made the same flawed point, see my earlier reply, your point was been countered so many times on Boards.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 8,385 ✭✭✭Ray Palmer


    She is being forced to be a landlord whether you think it or not. Yes technically she could get out of it in a few months but in all practical ways she is being forced to be a landlord beyond the period she wishes.

    You are being disingenuous to the point of lying.

    I'll keep sums simple

    Property worth €100k but bought for €10k if you sell it you pay 23% on the gain (90*.23=20.7)

    The owner now has €79.3k which has to give them the same return as the property to live

    The person dies and leaves the money to the child along with family home. Child pays in inheritance tax of 33% on it (79.3*.33=26.17)

    So total tax paid on €100k property would be (20.7+26.17) €46.87k which is close to half of the value

    If they keep the property and let them inherit it the tax bill is €33k

    That is an extra €13k on each €100k value of the property which is a barrier to selling.

    So this is a valid reason for people wanting to leave the market but due to time of life and taxes they stay in. You are trying to make it out like it really doesn't make a difference but I have clearly shown it does.

    Now you may be happy with more taxes but those you expecting to pay it don't feel happy about it and will avoid it.

    Ultimately what do you want to happen and how do you think you can achieve it? So far you seem to want to punish landlords and expect more rental and cheaper rent through some sort of magic.



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,545 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    Anecdotal evidence shows that everything you posted there is incorrect. Short term supply is exiting the market.

    Anytime a property now becomes vacant atge owner has now to ask themselves the question. Will I need this property for my own use or want it vacant at any time in the next five year. If the answer is yes then as an owner you would be crazy to rent the property.

    Over the last eighteen months legislation has changed the outlook of property owners. Take the scenario on this thread will any home owner now going abroad for the short, medium or long-term consider renting there house or apartment. The simple answer is ''NO''.

    You can add property where owners are in nursing homes, elderly owners living with there children, people who go to mind elderly relatives, we have an increasing house vacancy rate.

    It will be interesting to watch the most recent change to short term letting. Will it return even 50% of the 12k units that it is supposed to free up.

    No small LL are not incredibly wealthy, they may be well off but generally they are just ordinary Joe Soaps. Many inherit a second property, got caught by negative equity or purchased an investment property as part of there retirement planning.

    Smaller LL ( and the RTB have indictated this) are more likely not to have properties at the highest market rents, they find the RTB process cumbersome and hard to navigate.

    Now these LL's when a property became vacant must make a decision do I relet it or not. For many they may have had plans to move back to this property when they retired or were keeping the property for a child. These LL are very unlikely to sell the property. The proposed vacancy tax will be impossible to enforce on exLL's who only own a second property or owners of second properties in general.

    Occupancy of properties reduce when they move from rental to owner occupied.

    Post edited by Bass Reeves on

    Slava Ukrainii



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,256 ✭✭✭Kaisr Sose


    Parasites normally live of a host. What you ouline above is the opposite. The host is living of the parasite.

    Parasite provides home for host (tenant). In many cases, the parasite charges less than market rent. With interest rates rising, these parasites are actually making less profit as they cannot increase rent to match these rises.

    I can't see how any of this could reasonably be regarded as parasitical behaviour on the part of a property owner.

    In my view, it looks more like a symbiotic relationship. Both need each other and are getting what they need from the relationship.

    Post edited by Kaisr Sose on


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,089 ✭✭✭DubCount


    Its so easy - you should become a Landlord and join the gravy train



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,170 ✭✭✭✭Furze99


    Yes I agree, too much perhaps well intentioned meddling and attempted regulation is only making matters worse in the rental market. Like a slow car crash and as I mentioned above, started with John Gormley and his Greens who brought in the 'bedsit ban'. Very hard to know though how things can be put back though as they were - an imperfect but flexible relationship between house owner and tenant. And we need to slow the demand for housing by limiting immigration until matters are sorted.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,385 ✭✭✭Ray Palmer


    You are very mixed up on what actually happens.

    Firstly in the RPZ landlords will not buy a previously rented property as they are forced to rent out at the same rate as the previous landlord. However if the buy a house that was not rented they can rent at market rate. So previous rental are being taken out of the rental market.

    Occupancy rates in rental property is higher than owner occupied. So a house rented to 4 adults like a 3 bed semi goes down to 2 people.

    Now the the people renting could be lucky and get the place the 2 owners had but that still leaves 2 people looking to rent but there is one less rental on the market.

    Adding to that the people buying the place are better paid as shown by the fact they can buy so it turns out that none of the residents could afford the rent left by the new owners so have no where they can afford to live near by.

    The thing is the landlords leaving aren't being replaced so while they aren't taking the property with them they are removed from the rental market and less people are housed.

    You seem to think because somebody gets rid of one investment they are too wealthy. You know people cash in investments to pay off debts all the time and why do you want to take their money anyway. It is probably fair to say most landlords pay way more tax than you have or will.



  • Registered Users Posts: 437 ✭✭TipsyMcStagge


    I might just do that it sure beats actually working for a living.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,385 ✭✭✭Ray Palmer


    Out of curosity how many domestic violence situation have you had to deal with in work? Drug addicts? Dead bodies? Assaults?

    That is part of being a landlord which apparently isn't work along with all the maintenance and paper work. If you have some magic way of getting tradesmen to appear on time and fix an issue first time every time let me know.



  • Registered Users Posts: 437 ✭✭TipsyMcStagge


    Maybe if you weren't renting out your slums to scumbags you wouldn't have to deal with that sort of thing or better yet you could get a real job.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,385 ✭✭✭Ray Palmer


    I see you are so enlightened about people. You should really read the forum more and you would see what tenants want landlords involved in. I must rememeber people who die are scumbags and I am a slumlord for renting to a person because they have the potential to die.

    I also doubt you are a person who has never got into a physical altercation with somebody you felt did you wrong.

    Must remember only people living in slum conditions are capable of domestic abuse. Never heard of any well off people living in nice accommodation having domestic abuse situations.

    I take it you don't deal with people much



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  • Registered Users Posts: 437 ✭✭TipsyMcStagge


    I'm not interested in your landlord sob stories there's clearly plenty of profit in it or you wouldn't be doing it so you and the rest of the landlords on here just please spare us the crying and the whinging and the poor me bullsh!t and get on with running your business in accordance with the law which this particular landlord failed to do.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,385 ✭✭✭Ray Palmer


    They aren't sob stories but a question to you. How many of such things have you dealt with was the question?

    You made the claim being a landlord is no work. Are you saying dealing with those things is no work?

    You don't like to back up your claims and like to insult people. Every landlord does more to prevent people being homeless than anything you do unless you are going to suddenly tell us what you are actually doing about it. You can stay in your little bubble of rage about landlords all you like but I would bet you have done nothing about it.

    Are you going to answer question or just insult?



  • Registered Users Posts: 437 ✭✭TipsyMcStagge


    They are sob stories and poor ones at that this whole thread is a landlord sob story and there are dozens of other similar threads on this site as well between landlord sob stories and dole bashing you've got 50% of this websites content. Your original question was ridiculous some of your tenants are alcos or wife beaters oh dear that must be terrible for you I bet you still took the rent off them? All I'm asking is that you crybabies stop pretending theirs no money in being a landlord stop constantly playing the victim online and just run your business in accordance with the law.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,385 ✭✭✭Ray Palmer


    You can't answer any questions it appear. The thread is about a homeless women but you can keep twisting yourself in knots about things you know nothing about and do nothing about.



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,513 ✭✭✭✭Dav010




  • Registered Users Posts: 8,385 ✭✭✭Ray Palmer


    Mine apparently. Only a certain class of people die seems to be what he is saying



  • Registered Users Posts: 437 ✭✭TipsyMcStagge


    This thread is not about a homeless woman it is about a landlord who failed to adhere to the law concerning tenancy in this country and is now crying about it. Why don't you rent her one your many properties since you care so much?



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,513 ✭✭✭✭Dav010




  • Registered Users Posts: 1,262 ✭✭✭The Student


    This thread is about a homeless woman despite how you want to interpret the situation. This is this person's home, a home she bought and is paying for. It is not the home of the person renting the property no matter what you feel. It is a commercial trans pure and simple.

    If people want their own home then either purchase one or ask the state to provide one. I emphasis the State (not the private sector) who is there to support those incapable of doing so themselves.

    I have read your post's and you either don't understand the day to day experiences of landlords or you do and just choose to ignore them and want to use this forum to vent against landlords. Being a landlord/tenant is a business transaction and emotion both on the part of the tenant and the landlord should be removed from same. if a person doesn't think they can afford rent then don't rent. if a landlord can't cope in the business then leave the business. But don't punish the landlord for wanting to leave. Perhaps you should focus your attention on the causes of the current situation rather than those involved in it.

    Ironically in a normal functioning environment this type of situation would not be an issue if the eviction ban was not in place. A reissuing of an eviction notice would have taken a couple of days and it would been an inconvenience for the owner of the property but it has become a much bigger issue for them because of the anti landlord stance being portrayed in the media and all over social media.



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