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  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,678 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    Yes, because most others had already moved to automatic and electronic switching systems a decade before us. We were playing catch up.

    The last manual switchboard in Ireland was in 1987! As in a lady switched the call. The last one in BT in the UK was in 1976.



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,505 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    During the 70's because of the recession we started to fall behind in the demand for telephone services. This was due to a myriad of factors population densities was probably the main one. Most cities and large towns were fairly ok although the time taken to a achieve connection was abnormally long. However rural Ireland suffered from exactly the same issues as it dose now for broadband.

    Albert Reynolds started to change the structure and Telecom Eireann was created on the early eighties. By the late eighties we had caught up and passed out other countries network and remained ahead of it until privitisation of TE in the late 90's. TE was throwing serious dividends to the government for the last ten years before it was sold off. However the damage was done in the 2-3 years pre sale and the decade afterwards where we went from the most advanced telecommunications to one of the worst.

    There was no hybrid system there was what was the historical switchboard system, the first automatic platforms which were electromechanical and then digitalisation and now we are onto fiber and IP based platforms.

    On electricity again it was since generation capacity was provided by other than the ESB that we went from the lowest to the highest priced electricity in Ireland. The regulator admitted it in the late noughties it needed to rise the price of electricity to get private generated capacity into the network.

    Slava Ukrainii



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    HCBS joins NatWest and Lloyds and other banks in refusing to provide funding for fossil fuel projects




  • Registered Users Posts: 20,047 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    I've had 4 brief disconnections this week, last one was this morning, and dozens a year would be normal.



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,678 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    Ah, you got in there before I edited the "hybrid" :)

    Yes, we went from electromechanical switching to E10/AXE digital systems in the 90's. But then didn't do anything with broadband after that.

    "However the damage was done in the 2-3 years pre sale and the decade afterwards where we went from the most advanced telecommunications to one of the worst."

    I agree completely, lost decade there.



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  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,678 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    BTW we don't have the most expensive electricity in Europe. We are only very slightly above the EU average.

    First half of 2022, EU average 25c per KWh, Ireland 27c per KWh. Denmark has the most expensive at 45c [1]

    https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php?title=Electricity_price_statistics

    BTW these figures don't take into account spending power or average salaries.

    For instance Greece is 23c, but folks in Greece earn less then half of us per month, so electricity bills make up a much higher percentage of their earnings then it would for us.

    If you scroll down in the above article, you'll actually find that Ireland has one of the lowest cost of electricity when "purchasing power standard" is taken into account.

    [1] Of course prices have increased since first half 2022, but it has all across Europe.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,678 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    I do not know if this is true, but I will put it out there and if anyone can confirm it, I would be glad to here it.

    Some time in the 1980s, ATT&T approached the Irish Gov to be allowed to take over the Irish telephone business and install an experimental state of the art system in Ireland so they could perfect it. This would be at no cost to the state.

    ATT&T were of the opinion the Ireland was an ideal platform to develop the phone system of (the then) tomorrow.

    This would give us the bestest phone system in the world because ATT&T were the best at it at the time.

    The Irish Gov turned the offer down - probably because of blow back from the unions.

    Can anyone confirm this?



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,904 ✭✭✭✭josip


    It's possible that they made the offer but i don't think the reason you gave for the refusal is correct. Vincent Daly led Ericsson in Ireland from the 60s until the late 80s, early 90s. He was instrumental in getting the Athlone factory set up. The arrangement with the Irish government being, we'll provide X jobs outside Dublin if P&T buy our equipment. It also helped that he was very well connected and a director of Forbairt. So AT&T could have been coming in with the best offer in the world, they were unlikely to succeed in the pre EU competition law era.

    This wasn't the first time AT&T had been screwed by Ericsson. Lars Magnus got his start by ripping off Alexander's patents (as well as others) way back at the start of it all.

    Post edited by josip on


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,710 ✭✭✭Birdnuts


    Thats BS - we already had some of the highest power prices in the EU well before the Ukraine war. Same trend in Germany as more wind was added to the grid



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]




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  • Registered Users Posts: 9,710 ✭✭✭Birdnuts


    Must have been my imagination then that the government has shelled out vast amounts of taxpayers money this year to cushion folks against price gouging energy firms - including those pedaling BS about providing "100" green energy🙄



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,505 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves




  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    The SEAI Energy In Ireland 2022 report has just been released



    Some of the key points in it from that article

    • carbon dioxide emissions are moving in the wrong direction and rose by 5.4 per cent in 2021, when the plan was for them to fall by 4.8 per cent
    • a rebound in traffic on the roads and an increase in the use of coal and oil in electricity generation had affected CO2 levels with emissions returning to pre-Covid levels.
    • "The current level of progress in moving to renewables” is “not at the rate required to achieve our climate ambitions"
    • The increase in 2021 emissions was driven by electricity generation, up 17.3 per cent; transport, up 7.3 per cent; and industry up 3.3 per cent.
    • The increases were partly mitigated by decreases in residential emissions of 6.1 per cent, and commercial and public services by 2.7 per cent.

    SEAI are calling for immediate action, including

    • More energy storage and electricity interconnection
    • Smarter travel including walking, cycling and take public transport coupled with a decrease in petrol and diesel using vehicles
    • Deployment of district heating networks at scale to replace gas and oil use for heating
    • More electric vehicles, upgrades of 500,000 homes to at least B2 energy rating and more heat pumps in place of oil and gas boilers.
    • Develop further onshore and offshore wind and solar

    I'm still going through the report, its 160 pages and goes into a massive amount of detail



  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,395 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    Shouldnt surprise anyone that emissions from electricity generation are up given that Moneypoint and Tarbert are required to keep us from blackouts. Presumably emissions will be up further in 2022 given that we’re hitting demand records at the minute.

    There’s no low carbon source of baseload electricity we can use to address the ever growing demand we’re seeing and keep to emissions targets. Emissions targets and industrial policy are in direct conflict with one another in this regard and I can’t see how emissions will drop anytime soon.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,036 ✭✭✭timmyntc


    There’s no low carbon source of baseload electricity we can use to address the ever growing demand we’re seeing and keep to emissions targets.

    There's always, dare I say it.. the N word



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,678 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    There is no way any base load can be constructed by 2050 that is zero carbon.

    We are building an interconnector to France which will reduce the problem. We are retrofitting houses with insulation that will reduce demand.

    I am not sure how much the off shore wind turbines will play a part, or the fitting of solar panels on commercial buildings will contribute, but it all helps - today, no wind but lots of sun and ice.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,697 ✭✭✭serfboard


    Thanks for doing all the hard work DaCor so we don't have to!

    The SEAI basically saying that we're going to have to go a hell of a lot faster than we're going - but will anyone listen?



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,505 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    I would not totally agree. From the time the atom was split to the atom bomb( fission) was 13 years, commercial fission power was another 12 so twenty five year.

    Fussion is now possible twenty seven years will see a monumental change in this technology. We will probably see fission generation by the early 2040's

    Slava Ukrainii



  • Registered Users Posts: 20,047 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    There is a way, but many people wouldn't like it. You'd have to have something like an emergency to get people onside, and even then, a lot would complain.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 20,047 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    It's not about listening, it's about reality. It is not possible to reduce carbon emissions at the rate people say it needs to change at, without killing people, so it will never happen. While catastrophists believe that massive change is essential and that society needs to be esentially destroyed to achive the required ends, the majority of society disagrees.

    Post edited by cnocbui on


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,904 ✭✭✭✭josip




  • Registered Users Posts: 8,460 ✭✭✭Markcheese


    The , "we're in an emergency now but in just 15 to 20 years and with a staggering amount of money we could build something else .. that potentially has its own issues .. " line might be a hard sell ..

    Especially in an era of rising intrest rates ,that's going to be a hard sell ..

    Slava ukraini 🇺🇦



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,678 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    Base load at the moment is about 3 GW. The interconnector can give us 1 GW. Current max demand is 7 GW.

    That is a big gap to fill, unless there is another form of green energy than wind and solar.



  • Registered Users Posts: 20,047 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    There is, but I'm not allowed to mention it. ;-)



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I'll mention it for you :)

    More wind (offshore and onshore), more solar, more interconnectors, more pumped hydro, hydrogen, geothermal etc etc

    More than one way to skin a cat



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,678 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    "Some time in the 1980s, ATT&T approached the Irish Gov to be allowed to take over the Irish telephone business and install an experimental state of the art system in Ireland so they could perfect it. This would be at no cost to the state."

    No idea if true, but an interesting story and could have made a lot of sense at the time for AT&T. In 1980 BT in the UK were installing the first fully digital system called System X. Perhaps they hoped to attract some of the BT engineers to move over to Ireland to help with their project.



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,678 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    "More wind (offshore and onshore), more solar, more interconnectors, more pumped hydro, hydrogen, geothermal etc etc"

    Yep, the technology is there, we just have been far too slow rolling it out

    It is pretty insane when you consider that we have just one single offshore wind farm, that was built nearly 20 years ago! We have incredible potential for offshore wind, some of the best in the world and we haven't tapped it at all. Complete madness.

    The only issue we have is that we have been too slow and conservative delivering these renewable technologies.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,886 ✭✭✭Chris_5339762


    But when you have groups like a Tramore surfers association planning to challenge a Waterford offshore windfarm due to the perceived threats to "their" waves , you know why infrastructure and power generation in Ireland is a slow slow outcome. So much wrangling.



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