Taiwan now requires e-bike users to have number plates & insurance.

#1 · 02-12-2022 1:16pm #1

Interesting article from Taiwan. Users of e-bikes formally called "mini electric two-wheel vehicles" are required to register their vehicle, have a number plate and have insurance going forward. Existing owners have 2 years to comply with the new regulations. High time such regs were introduced here. The amount of these bloody things whizzing around, on footpaths etc is amazing, not to mention the added danger of many of them not being lit during twilight and darkness. Having a reg plate would also contribute to traceability if they were involved in an accident and then proceeded to scarper after the event.

https://focustaiwan.tw/society/202211300014

c.p.w.g.w · 02-12-2022 1:27pm

Those look like electric scooters, not e-bikes that we have here (which are limited to 30km/hr, which is slower than my average speeds when I cycled regularly

Witcher · 02-12-2022 1:31pm

The fury you will draw down upon yourself with this thread doesn't bear thinking about OP.

Seth Brundle · 02-12-2022 1:32pm

It is not mentioned in the article but I presume that it refers to electric bikes that are capable of running under their own power and electric bikes capable of speeds over 25km/h.

Ebikes that one must pedal in order to move and have their power assistance limited to 25km/h are fine and like @c.p.w.g.w says, they are slower than anyone capable of using a normal road bike.

02-12-2022 1:36pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119948363#Comment_119948363

Yeah, picture could be a bit misleading alright. I’d still support such regs being introduced here though for accountability reasons alone.

mgray · 02-12-2022 1:37pm

Thanks for the update op, I'll remember this the next time I'm commuting to Taiwan..

Seth Brundle · 02-12-2022 1:38pm

@[Deleted User]: Yeah, picture could be a bit misleading alright. I’d still support such regs being introduced here though for accountability reasons alone.

I could ask accountability for what but I think it would be best not to!

02-12-2022 1:42pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119948417#Comment_119948417

After an accident and the e-bike owner is shown to be at fault and proceeds to do a runner? Handy if they had a reg plate to spot.

02-12-2022 2:01pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119948381#Comment_119948381

I've some hang sangies & a flask to sustain me.........

Thelonious Monk · 04-12-2022 12:31pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119948437#Comment_119948437

It's only cars that kill and maim people, bikes don't whether electric or not. That's why they don't need registration, it would be like having people who go for a jog to require reg plates in case they knock someone over.

magicbastarder · 04-12-2022 7:36pm

couple of weird clauses in there;

"For migrant workers applying for mini electric two-wheel vehicle license plates, in addition to the above-mentioned requirements, they need to provide a consent letter from their employer"

https://www.taiwannews.com.tw/en/news/4724989

there's also some comment here that the regulation will probably be difficult or unworkable:

https://www.taipeitimes.com/News/editorials/archives/2022/09/23/2003785773

04-12-2022 7:43pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119955179#Comment_119955179

Somebody on an E-bike can’t cause serious injury, such as to a pedestrian? Sorry, I disagree. Plus what about if you’re in your car stationary in a line of traffic, and somebody on one of these things clips your wing mirror and damages it? Who pays? Everybody using the road should be held accountable for their actions and if that means registration etc for e-bike users then let it happen.

bk · 05-12-2022 2:37pm

"Somebody on an E-bike can’t cause serious injury, such as to a pedestrian?"

Somebody jogging down the footpath might accidentally bump into an old lady and she falls and breaks her hips.

So should we start tattooing a license plate on the forehead of every person?

"Plus what about if you’re in your car stationary in a line of traffic, and somebody on one of these things clips your wing mirror and damages it? Who pays?"

Your insurance pays for it, no different then if someone clips your mirror when parked and you didn't see it happen. Or if an uninsured driver hits you, etc.

License plates are no guarantee as it is, even between cars.

I'd of course fully support license and registration for large scooters like shown in the above article. But it is a completely moronic idea to applied to pedal assist bikes, etc.

The resaon it would be so stupid, is the cost of admining, registration and license for such vehicles would FAR outwiegh the cost of the relatively tiny amount of damage they might do, compared to cars, etc.

Such costs would just make transport even more expensive for the lowest earning folks in our society, while discouraging people from a healthy and environmentally friendly form of transport.

It is just such an incredibly stupid idea.

maninasia · 05-12-2022 2:46pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119948363#Comment_119948363

Those electric scooters in the pic already require licenses and plates. Stupid choice for the article.

This new regulation is for all kinds of electric bikes. So yeah it could be very applicable to Ireland.

Currently Dublin is a mess with delivery drivers with no license whizzing around aswell as commuters and teens, no insurance. Those ebikes and escooters can reach high speeds in Ireland, all over the footpaths and roads. Its dangerous. They get away with bad behaviour because they are anonymous.

Its not a moronic idea at all. It would cut down on the complete chaos especially the delivery riders antics , provide compensation from accidents and also reduce bike theft!

You can't leave an ebike outside in most places because it would be nicked. If all ebikes had a chain of ownership then stolen ebikes market would be less of a problem.

magicbastarder · 05-12-2022 3:01pm

Those ebikes and escooters can reach high speeds in Ireland

e-bikes are limited to 25km/h pedal assist, and e-scooters will also be. legally, what you are talking about are mopeds; and the users are breaking the law anyway.

one of the main issues with the delivery crowds is that they operate as sole traders, so the likes of deliveroo et al take no liability for any damage they might do, or any harm which comes to them; and that's a big issue.

Tenzor07 · 05-12-2022 7:25pm

Legal schmegle, there's 100's of Scooter riders and Deliveroo bikers etc. whizzing around at 30 to 50kph+ every day on the streets, if they had to be registered then it would take a lot of the home conversion bikes and illegal high speed scooters off the streets...

However this won't happen here, the cost of bringing in that scheme would mean it just won't fly.. I mean there's already 170,000+ drivers on our roads who have no motor insurance, and probably more a few thousand of those on their 50th provisional licence...

So this debate isn't really worth having..

05-12-2022 11:20pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119959249#Comment_119959249

“Somebody jogging down the footpath might accidentally bump into an old lady and she falls and breaks her hips. So should we start tattooing a license plate on the forehead of every person.”

Hit by a jogger going at 8 to 10 kmh or hit by someone on an e-bike or an e-scooter (which are an unyielding metal object compared to human physiology) doing 25 kmh. Which scenario would you prefer? Ebikes/scooters use the road (unlike people). Because they use the road, shouldn’t they be accountable in some way? I think they should and if that means registration, so be it.

Spook_ie · 06-12-2022 4:45am

@bk

Your insurance pays for it, no different then if someone clips your mirror when parked and you didn't see it happen. Or if an uninsured driver hits you, etc.

Funny I thought my insurance was to pay for damage etc. to other people's property caused by me not my own property caused by someone else.

Flinty997 · 06-12-2022 9:01am

I see we have the usual let's create laws we won't enforce and pretend it will make a different.

"...three years of compulsory automobile liability insurance at a cost of ....(US$44)..."

Quite the bargain.

7 deaths in a population of 23 million and annual road deaths of around 3,000.

https://topics.amcham.com.tw/2022/03/road-safety-taiwan-in-need-of-an-upgrade/

https://www.taipeitimes.com/News/feat/archives/2022/08/06/2003783058

07Lapierre · 14-12-2022 11:53pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119956500#Comment_119956500

I work in the Motor trade. Most of my day is spent arranging repairs to vehicles damaged by drivers and 3rd party's'

Some observations:

claiming for a damaged mirror from insurance? Why? mirrors are not that expensive. It requires a lot for force to break them, if some rider on an e-scooter breaks your mirror, get out of your car, don't move the guy on the ground as he probably has a broken arm and call an ambulance. Once at the hospital, get his Credit card details and send him a bill for your mirror.
Yes there are dishonest people out there...the vast majority of them drive cars and if the opportunity arises to get away without paying for damage to a 3rd party's vehicle, they will take it. you have the car registration number? ask any Garda and they will tell you that's no guarantee that you have identified the driver. (in most cases..people get the registration number wrong, so unless you have it from CCTV footage,,best of luck)
Purely anecdotal i know, but my own car has dents, scratches on both doors, all caused by other car drivers who i have no doubt were fully taxed, insured and with full licenses etc, yet not one of them paid a cent towards the damage to my car.
In my view license plates for bikes are about as good as CCTV is for identifying a thief who is caught on CCTV wearing a scarf,sunglasses and a nike tracksuit! (no chance)

AndrewJRenko · 15-12-2022 12:02am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119961717#Comment_119961717

People use the road. You’ve seen people crossing the road, right? They can cause collisions, by stepping out without checking, often with earphones in.

Do people need a visible registration plate to ensure that they are accountable for collisions they cause?

Podge_irl · 15-12-2022 12:48am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119960596#Comment_119960596

Legal schmegle, there's 100's of Scooter riders and Deliveroo bikers etc. whizzing around at 30 to 50kph+ every day on the streets, if they had to be registered then it would take a lot of the home conversion bikes and illegal high speed scooters off the streets...

If they are clearly using illegal devices at the moment, what makes anyone think that they would pay attention to a requirement to register their illegal vehicle?

Flinty997 · 15-12-2022 1:00am

I don't think they've thought that through.

Tenzor07 · 15-12-2022 7:45pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119998265#Comment_119998265

Well, a registered Electric bike/scooter would have a sticker or a small licence plate on it as they do in say Switzerland, so any vehicle without that would be stopped by the Gardai and subject to a fine.....would have thought that was obvious.

Gatling · 15-12-2022 7:51pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119955179#Comment_119955179

Tell that to the families of people who have died in accidents on electric scooters or or the 40+ others seriously injured here alone and increasing and that's before ebikes are added to the list several deaths too

Thelonious Monk · 15-12-2022 8:02pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120000997#Comment_120000997

several deaths on ebikes in ireland? link?

Gatling · 15-12-2022 8:11pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120001029#Comment_120001029

https://www.irishnews.com/news/republicofirelandnews/2021/11/03/news/man-riding-electric-bike-dies-in-dublin-after-crashing-into-pole-2496641/

One from Ranelagh last year

Thelonious Monk · 15-12-2022 8:22pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120001063#Comment_120001063

not sure how a registration would help when someone crashes into a pole. you said several though, are there more?

Flinty997 · 15-12-2022 8:24pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120000978#Comment_120000978

Afaik it's only "fast" ebikes that require registration in Switzerland.

there are two categories of electric bicycles: slow electric bicycles (pedal assistance of up to 25 km/h); and fast or speed electric bicycles (pedal assistance of up to 45 km/h).

The minimum age for riding all models of electric bicycles in Switzerland is 14 years. From the age of 16, cyclists riding a slow electric bicycle do not need a driving license. Young riders aged above 14 are allowed to ride a slow electric bicycle if they hold a category M driving license (one for mopeds).

Fast or speed electric bicycles must be equipped with a license plate and a sticker. The use of a helmet is mandatory for speed e-bike riders.

https://easyebiking.com/speed-electric-bicycles-in-switzerland-what-are-the-rules/

Podge_irl · 15-12-2022 11:12pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120000978#Comment_120000978

But having an electric bike that goes over 25kpm is already illegal, so why does anyone think they will suddenly register their illegal vehicle?

Also Switzerland does not have a requirement for registration on electric bikes. They overtake me frequently, so I would know.

For scooters that can go at '>3pkh without input sure. I don't think anyone is arguing against that.

Flinty997 · 15-12-2022 11:52pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120001659#Comment_120001659

What has overtaking got to do with registration.

I don't think everyone is against scooters for that matter.

Podge_irl · 16-12-2022 6:01am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120001782#Comment_120001782

Nothing, but I have never seen registration on any electric bike going past me.

Scooters and pedal assist bikes are vastly different things.

magicbastarder · 17-12-2022 5:01pm

what distinction are you making between 'electric bike' and 'pedal assist bike', because most people would assume they're the same thing.

the issue is whether they adhere to the regs; which are not enforced (possibly because the gardai know there's a new law coming at some point)

Flinty997 · 17-12-2022 5:09pm

The motor cuts out if you stop pedaling on pedal assist bike. I know of only one scooter that's similar. Only boosts your own scooting. Wasn't popular.

A lot of ebikes coming in now often have electric only mode you don't need to pedal. None are legal on the road here. Neither are scooters.

Our govt has failed to address it, or enforce the rules.

magicbastarder · 18-12-2022 9:10am

My comment was in relation to the fact that 'electric bike' would be taken by most to mean an e-bike in general, which would include pedal assist bikes. To be fair, I'm not aware of a word which would clearly refer to 'illegal' e-bikes.

Flinty997 · 18-12-2022 12:48pm

Other countries have a defined name like "fast" ebike for one that goes over 25 etc. In Ireland we've just ignored it entirely.

magicbastarder · 19-12-2022 9:48am

taiwan aside, it does raise the question about how the gardai would be able (if they were so inclined) to police the use of 'illegal' e-bikes, after the new law comes in.

Flinty997 · 19-12-2022 11:06am

Currently only bikes that are pedal assisted to to 25kph only are allowed. How they enforce that is exactly how they will enforce any new law. Basically they won't.

23-06-2023 10:08pm

Latvia soon to require a license and registration for e-scooters. Proper order IMO. Should be brought in here too, especially after the unfortunate death of that elderly pedestrian that was struck by one of these things on Eccles Street a couple of days ago.

https://eng.lsm.lv/article/economy/transport/22.06.2023-electric-scooters-will-require-license-and-registration-in-latvia.a513972/

magicbastarder · 24-06-2023 11:33am

well, the e-scooter bill was signed into law yesterday by higgins, so don't expect it any time soon. AFAIK licence and registration do not feature.

we would achieve more by enforcing existing laws than we would by introducing new laws which are enforced as little as the current ones are.

24-06-2023 11:50am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120758550#Comment_120758550

Licence and registration should be mandatory, considering an 80 year old woman was knocked down by an e-scooter this week and her injuries resulted in her death. I doubt she will be the last.

https://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/woman-80s-struck-escooter-dies-30310037

May she rest in peace and condolences to her family.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/spotlight/arid-41004641.html#:~:text=To%20date%2C%20there%20have%20been%20791%20traffic%20incidents%20involving%20them,there%20were%20280%20traffic%20incidents.

We should have a way to identify who is driving these PPTs. Ridiculous if the legislation does not include this.

Varik · 24-06-2023 12:25pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120756756#Comment_120756756

Not enough information going in English on changes.

Latvia already have a requirement for a license for normal bicycles for minors, if you've an other license or are over 18 you don't need one.

Currently it's 10 years for the bike to get license and go on the road. Test is online and free with unlimited chances to take it.

magicbastarder · 24-06-2023 1:03pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120758606#Comment_120758606

Again, demanding a change in the law is not going to achieve anything if the current laws are not enforced. For everyone; proper enforcement would mean asshole e-scooterists get done, and would make the road safer for well behaved ones.

24-06-2023 2:09pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120758879#Comment_120758879

Is this not an amendment to current legislation?

If so "the current law is not enforced" is a pretty weak reason not to make any amendments as cohesive as possible, instead of just a box ticking exercise.

A minimum age to use a PPT on the road, the requirement of a licence (or some kind of permit) and a method of identification should have been included for all users of PPTs while the amendment was being drafted.

If it wasn't, then the amendment is pretty much redundant, imo.

magicbastarder · 24-06-2023 2:20pm

The main aim of the new law is to regularise and legalise the use of e-scooters/PPVs. Defining what is legal for use without requiring further paperwork. It's opening up the law rather than tightening it.

24-06-2023 2:55pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120759263#Comment_120759263

Its half arsed.

AndrewJRenko · 25-06-2023 1:12am

I’m often amazed by the enthusiasm to do something dramatic and broad ranging following one single death involving a scooter or a bicycle, compared to the blind eye we turn to two or three road deaths every week as a result of crashes involving motorists, which significantly impact older people.

https://www.rsa.ie/road-safety/campaigns/older-pedestrians#:~:text=31%25%20of%20pedestrian%20fatalities%20(2016,fatalities%20were%20female%20(65%25).
Census data (2016) reported that 13% of Ireland’s population is aged 65 and above. 31% of pedestrian fatalities (2016-2020*) are aged 65 and older, demonstrating that older people are significantly over-represented in pedestrian deaths in Ireland. The majority of fatalities were female (65%).

whisky_galore · 25-06-2023 7:45am

Let's do nothing so because whataboutery.

AndrewJRenko · 25-06-2023 7:50am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120762120#Comment_120762120

We have limited resources if Gardai and legislators. Do we want them to focus on the evolving dangers of scooters, which has resulted in two deaths here since the beginning of time afaik, or the very real, actual dangers of drivers killing two or three people each week?

Seth Brundle · 25-06-2023 7:54am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120762125#Comment_120762125

Unfortunately, at the moment they're not doing much to tackle either!

magicbastarder · 25-06-2023 9:41am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120762125#Comment_120762125

Was one of those a fatality somewhere up around Drogheda?

Taiwan now requires e-bike users to have number plates & insurance.

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