What are your views on Multiculturalism in Ireland? - Threadbanned User List in OP

I’ve seen it mentioned a few times on this thread about Roderick tweets in the different languages, but had never seen it myself, and genuinely thought people were exaggerating... I actually can’t believe what I’m seeing now that you’ve posted them.

It reminds me of countries in years gone by who put a call out for workers as they needed labour to work on the railways or construction to build the country, etc. Get the word out there that that there’s good money to be made and a good lifestyle awaits...attract the best and the brightest.

Of course the Irish version of that that is to extend a personal invite to wannbe migrants from countries whom we already had high numbers of asylum seekers from and where there is no war, and promise them own-door accommodation during a housing crisis, generous social welfare - more then they could ever dream of for working in their home countries, free healthcare, help finding employment - so they can earn even more money than social welfare if they want to work for it. Sure how could they not take him up on the offer?

It’s actually disgraceful what he’s done, and utterly bonkers. There’s enough of a pull factor as it is, without personally appealing to to them in their language.

It’s like a modern-day goldrush, except no hard work required.

Yes, that is true.

Here are the White Paper documents:

https://www.gov.ie/en/publication/7aad0-minister-ogorman-publishes-the-white-paper-on-ending-direct-provision/

Meanwhile a reminder of what happened in Sweden, where even Magdalena Anderson the Prime Minister prior to the election admitted that integration of immigrants has failed and led to growth of parallel societies and fuelled gang crime.

Swedish PM says integration of immigrants has failed, fueled gang crime

Reuters

"Segregation has been allowed to go so far that we have parallel societies in Sweden. We live in the same country but in completely different realities," Andersson told a news conference.

The number of people in Sweden born abroad has doubled in the last two decades to 2 million, or a fifth of the population. . . .

"Integration has been too poor at the same time as we have had a large immigration. Society has been too weak, resources for the police and social services have been too weak." 

Note it's society which has been too weak, nothing to do with their policies which were roundly rejected by the electorate. What makes us so different to Sweden of 2015, where they took in more people per capita than any other EU state? And of course there are endless resources here to deal with societal problems like housing, extra school places, hospital waiting lists etc, aren't there?

What I never understood about the argument that we’d be getting much needed doctors and engineers in the influx of asylum seekers - a doctor or a highly-educated engineer could come here anyway on a work visa and secure employment that way. I doubt there was ever many doctors coming in to claim asylum and living in direct provision, because as we know, the majority ARE economic migrants.

I do say, especially when the idea being touted in this thread is that lefties are responsible for mass immigration and all the rest of it. The CDU can best be described as centre-right, and it was under Merkel that Germany took in almost a million Syrian asylum seekers, economic migrants, whatever.

Government are responsible for economic and social policies so immigrants can’t be blamed for the failures of a Government which not only failed to integrate immigrants, but actually introduced policies which ensured immigrants couldn’t integrate into society.

The Irish Government at the time were told direct provision wasn’t sustainable, and there was plenty of evidence to show it wasn’t sustainable, but the Irish Government at the time ignored the evidence and went ahead with direct provision. Lefties aren’t responsible for that, because they’ve never gotten within an asses roar of dictating social and economic policies in Ireland. Yet throughout this thread, the responsibility is constantly being diverted away from the people who are responsible for the current mess in which Irish people find themselves.

Hold on a sec, you made the point that you never understood the argument that we’d get much needed doctors and engineers in the influx of asylum seekers. I was making the point that the reason we don’t get them is because it doesn’t matter that they are doctors or engineers or whatever they are, the fact that they’re asylum seekers is what prevented them from working prior to 2018, which is why they would have been no evidence of them in Ireland. There IS evidence of doctors among asylum seekers in Germany, but their integration into society is complicated by a number of issues, again none of which they are responsible for -

A significant number who sought asylum in Germany hold professional qualifications and university degrees, including medical doctors, dentists and other healthcare workers. Although there are no official numbers, the German Medical Association states that the largest influx of foreign doctors in the past year are from Syria, with nearly 737 Syrian physicians entering the German workforce in 2017. They also estimate that there are more than 3370 Syrian doctors working in Germany, including those who arrived before the onset of the Syrian conflict.4 However, this likely underestimates the true number as it omits those who have German citizenship or are completing their registration. In general, there is sparse information on the number of qualified healthcare workers among Syrian refugees.

They’re the doctors I wasn’t just trying to imply, they exist, among asylum seekers. The point I was making is that in Ireland, we’re not going to see evidence of asylum seekers who are doctors and engineers because they can’t get work in Ireland. It doesn’t mean they aren’t qualified as doctors and engineers, and it certainly doesn’t mean that they can come here on an employment visa and obtain employment immediately which would ensure they are able to provide for themselves and their families.

The closest we come to what you’re suggesting, is what I provided, it’s why I provided it, they’re asylum seekers living in direct provision who are working in healthcare. I didn’t try to imply they were doctors -

Before 2018, asylum seekers in Ireland weren’t permitted to seek employment, and so we didn’t see any evidence of asylum seekers who were healthcare workers, but when they were permitted to work, there were 80 at least in 2020 working in healthcare, living in direct provision

There was no mention in the article of being unable to afford accommodation, they’re detained in direct provision while they’re waiting for their asylum applications to be processed, and as we know that can take anywhere from months to years. They wanted alternative accommodation under the same terms as other healthcare workers were being provided with accommodation.

Doctors in employment are less likely to qualify for assistance from the State, not because they’re doctors, but because assessments for support from the State are determined on the basis of need. Doctors who are unemployed, or are not in the labour force, or are not permitted to work, or are asylum seekers, are very likely to need assistance from the State, and even better if the State doesn’t put barriers to employment in their way so that they CAN gain employment and support themselves, especially at a time when all employment sectors in Ireland are facing shortages because they can’t get the staff.

The new guy appears to be highly qualified, but I still wouldn’t expect he’ll be able to turn around the fortunes of the bureaucratic mess that is the HSE -

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-41029892.html

So doctors who might've been in direct provision prior to 2018 were unable to work. Any figures on how many doctors came from direction provision since 2018?

You say Germany have 3000-odd Syrian doctors. That's not telling us much - out of a county with a population of nearly 20 million, over 3000 of them are working in one of the powerhouses of Europe. Why wouldn't they want to go there for a better life and better wages, especially during a war at home when they are in high demand. Any idea how many of them came as refugees? No, because the article itself says "In general there is sparse information on the number of qualified healthcare workers among Syrian refugees" (funny that!). You say 737 Syrian physicians entered the German workforce in 2017... hell, as of May this year, 400 Irish doctors moved to Australia, and there sure isn't a war here and we have a quarter of the Syrian population!

You say about the healthcare workers looking to leave direction provision but are unable to: 2There was no mention in the article of being unable to afford accommodation, they’re detained in direct provision while they’re waiting for their asylum applications to be processed, and as we know that can take anywhere from months to years. They wanted alternative accommodation under the same terms as other healthcare workers were being provided with accommodation".

No one is detained in direct provision. You are free to find your own accommodation, but at your own expense. According to the Citizens Information: You do not have to accept direct provision. If you decide to live somewhere else, you will not get any state assistance (for example, social welfare or help with housing costs). https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/moving_country/asylum_seekers_and_refugees/services_for_asylum_seekers_in_ireland/direct_provision.html#:~:text=You%20do%20not%20have%20to,or%20help%20with%20housing%20costs).

Fair enough they were looking for the same accommodation provided to healthcare workers during that stage of the pandemic, but that article is from April 2020 - right at the beginning of the pandemic. So it suggests these people who had a work permit and were earning a wage still chose to stay in direct provision before we ever heard of Covid, as they were either unable or unwilling to pay for their own accommodation.

I’ve no idea of how many people seeking asylum in Ireland are qualified as doctors or engineers. Nor does the Irish government, nor the German government for that matter as is stated in the article. I didn’t say anything about the actual number, the article did, and there’s nothing funny about it, because what you’re asking for is the impossible.

The population of Syria has nothing to do with anything, and have you read the reasons why doctors are leaving Ireland? Their working conditions are shyte, putting it bluntly -

Working conditions for junior doctors – non-consultant hospital doctors (NCHDs) – are a key concern for the union. They are balloting for potential industrial action, saying they work 80-hour weeks including 24-hour shifts which puts patients at risk.

I’m not sure doctors emigrating from here won’t face similar issues in other countries to the issues faced by doctors immigrating here who aren’t permitted to work -

https://amp.theguardian.com/australia-news/2022/jul/24/international-doctors-unable-to-work-in-australia-due-to-broken-system-experts-say

One thing about Australians which the Irish immigrants there won’t be used to, is the fact that Ausssies don’t mince their words and have little concern for political correctness 😁

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/438241/trash-row-time-for-nz-to-act-on-harsh-demoralising-detention-centres-advocate

Deb you appear to want to argue it both ways - asylum seekers are being provided with support by the State, and those that don’t want to be supported by the State still want to be supported by the State, even though they weren’t aware of the support being provided by the State which they were entitled to which would enable them to move out of direct provision, at a time when you say before Covid was even heard of, even though groups representing asylum seekers had been raising their concerns for weeks -

Groups that work with, and represent asylum seekers, including the Movement of Asylum Seekers in Ireland, the IRC and Sanctuary Runners have been raising concerns about Covid-19 spreading in these settings for a number of weeks.

On Thursday, the Health Service Executive published details of a temporary accommodation scheme for healthcare workers, and specified that those living in direct provision centres could apply.

However, many were only alerted to it when the Chief Operations Officer of the HSE, Anne O'Connor, tweeted about the scheme on Friday morning. 

Your whole point was that asylum seekers are dependent upon support from the State, because they aren’t able to support themselves because they’re not doctors, but the same applies to anyone in low-paid employment, that they require support from the State if they’re unable to provide for themselves or their families. Immigrants and asylum seekers qualify for a lot less support from the State than Irish citizens, and it’s Irish citizens who gain the greatest benefits from immigrants contributing to the Irish economy.

They’re not coming here for our generous welfare benefits, they’re coming here because they believe they can make a better life for themselves and their families in Ireland or Germany or elsewhere other than the countries they’re emigrating from. When they come here, many of them are being prevented from gaining employment because of various obstacles which don’t apply to Irish citizens.

Some people believe that they aren’t able to gain employment because Irish people are racist (we’re really not), and some Irish people believe it’s because people from other countries don’t want to work (they clearly do), as attested to by a common perception that the media tried to make a meal out of back in the day -

Everyone knew exactly what she meant, but even then, as they tend to do today, mainstream media and politicians love to make mountains out of molehills, because keeping people in a heightened state of anxiety means they are easier to manipulate.

Hey I’d like to believe the Irish Government and the various State agencies are competent too, in spite of all evidence to the contrary 😂

If the German government don’t have the figures though, it’s very unlikely the Irish government do. Your suggestion of course makes perfect sense, being among the first questions they’re asked and all, but it’s one thing for a person to answer that they’re a qualified doctor, it’s another thing entirely when they’re expected to present evidence of their qualifications, and the HSE while they may be well known for their bureaucracy, they’re also well known for not doing their due diligence -

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/high-court/judge-hse-s-use-of-unqualified-consultants-scandalous-1.3488329

I’d also like to believe the HSE weren’t turning a blind eye to the problem because they were desperate to meet the demands of a chronically underfunded healthcare system that’s been struggling for decades 😒

I fooking do boy... Not a clue what the rest of your statement is talking about though. Do you understand how different routes are used by different people to get in and out of different countries?