The wondrous adventures of Sinn Fein (part 3) Mod Notes and Threadbanned List in OP

She definitely didn’t have her normal brashness. Had a sense of going through the motions and brazening it out. At the moment SF are the best opposition a government could wish for.

The main opposition party in turmoil internally while having to try and appear ‘electable’ to enter government in ‘the south’/ROI. As to do means a requirement of higher standard of respectability than ‘the north’ /NI.

It is the most uncomfortable I have ever seen MacDonald in the Dáil Éireann, fascinating to watch

Why didn't Mary Lou McDonald contest the election of Taoiseach yesterday?

The numbers in the Dail have changed little since the general election she claimed victory after in 2020, so with this mandate surely in the interest of democracy she should have allowed herself to be nominated?

I think the reason is, they have vehemently criticised FF and FG for changing Taoiseach without giving the electorate an opportunity to decide who the new Taoiseach should be. That is, allowing the Taoiseach to be decided by TDs. She couldn’t therefore credibly seek to be made Taoiseach in that very manner herself.

the ones on here never, ever answer the question though.

Which of FG or FF will they be happy for SF to put back into government following the next election, considering SF are likely to be the largest party, but the current FF/FG/G coalition likely to be the largest block again. Especially after SF's overtures to "the rest" the last time around were roundly laughed at.

SF harp on and on about the failings of FF and FG and how "change" is needed, but the likelihood remains, if SF want power they are going to have to facilitate at least one of the other 2 larger parties back into government.

Can they do that with a straight face, after they've constantly attacked and bemoaned everything the govt has done since they gained a voice?

The mental gymnastics usually end up with a facile "well FF said they wouldn't govern with FG" sort of handwaving without actually addressing the question.

Will the put FF back at the cabinet table, after what FF did to the country? Will they join forces with FG?

has to be one of them

The failings of FF from an economic perspective? Rally? FF and FG separately and together have been massively successful in facilitating the growth of the Irish economy. Take GDP from Ireland and other countries for comparison across a 20 year timeline 2000-2008-2011-2020

Ireland 28-54-48-85

Austria 24-51-46-53

Sweden 29-53-46-60

Denmark 30-64-58-61

Greece 12-28-18-20

Venezuela 4-13-6-2

Across a reasonable timescale FF have delivered as well or better than any mature European nation. The legacy of Brian Lenehan's courageous policies and FG careful implementation of same has been a very positive trajectory.

Many other countries dipped in 2008-10.... it was called the International Financial Meltdown after all. Yet the far right and far left populists are allowed to peddle this lazy narrative that FF caused it all... utter Bullshyt.

Meanwhile, the movements beloved by SF and PBP (Syriza in Greece, PSUV in Venezuela) have delivered nothing except more hardship, failure and division on their peoples. The renegades in any alternative to FF FG will be the 'change' that people want. Enjoy.

And Articles 2 and 3.

Hard to fathom, that one.

Pascal Donohoe is what happened to Pearse Doherty.

Pearse is able to shout plenty, but his lack of intellectual depth or education has been badly exposed by the much superior Donohoe

If SF want to lead government in the ROI they have to be held to a higher standard of statesmanship than they previously have been accustomed to.

Up until now they have been ‘getting away with it’ as NI is a phenomenon where there does not have to show real accountability.

If SF start showing accountability and behaving like a normal political party - then maybe they will start getting some credit.

There are are a number of simple signs that SF have not matured as an ordinary political party yet

1) Refusal to say the name of either state they represent- Why? Irish political parties grew out of that in about the 40’s when they stopped referring to NI as the ‘6 counties’.

2) No independent thinking - within SF they all vote en bloc in Dublin City Council against housing developments. No other party votes en bloc like this except SF. Why?

3) Republican triumphalist Rhetoric - cliched myopic songs- and flag waving is still strong in SF. The cartoon Republicans I call it. They have not grown out out this yet. Why?

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You say that FF/FG have done ‘worser’’ how? Whether you like both parties or not. Under both there has been a steady ship since the founding of the Free State/ROI.

Which has seen the most stable governance and political ‘middle of the road’ many other European countries can only dream of.

At the moment Ireland is a main player in the EU despite its size. Exerting great soft power with support from the EU. Also Ireland is a vibrant country which attracts FDI tech giants with plenty of opportunity and the future looks bright.

Once SF split much of what the ROI became was done without them. While the ROI was becoming a small state joining Europe and growing- what were SF at?

In that time SF were sending NI into the dark ages. And not only that saw the apparatus of my country the ROI- as ‘legitimate targets’.

Makes you wonder about the cabinet after the next election. Assuming it's SF, PBP, and Independents plus breakaway Greens what will it look like? Based on the current TD's

Taoiseach - Mary Lou McDonald

Tanaiste and Enterprise- Pearse Doherty

Finance- David Cullinane

Public Expenditure and reform- Aengus OSnodaigh

Health- Louise O'Reilly

Foreign Affairs- Chris Andrews

Transport- Verona Murphy

Environment- Nessa Hourigan

Housing- Eoin O Broin

Social protection- Paul Murphy

Children and Equality - Kathlenn Funcheon

Defence - Martin Kenny

Justice- Pa Daly

Education - Donnacha O'Laoghaire

Higher education- Mairead Farrell

Rural and Community Development - Catherine Connolly

Agriculture- Michael Fitzmaurice

Tourism and sport- Michael Healy Rae

Re-unification minister- Matt Carthy

Can't wait to see how it works out.

Politicians are like nappys.

Change them regularly for the same reason.

True there is always corruption in politics as SF well know from their own circles (Tom McFeely - Slab Murphy etc) I don’t condone any corruption or wrongdoing but I am happy when it has been resolved through the proper channels.

You will note all the issues I raised in my previous post are simple CURRENT issues I have with SF - that are permitted to be discussed. Simple questions.

But SF’s problems stem from much deeper issues, some of which I cannot go into for legal reasons. And many other issues specific to flawed Republicanism. How many other parties can you say that of?

SF would never ‘give’ money to banks they prefer to rob them historically. Which is not a good economic strategic plan.To make an economy grow business is important. It means more growth and prosperity.

I am not saying this Irish state is perfect, the health system and so on. But it is a damn sight better than countries like America for instance.

But to try and paint the current government as corrupt in some way is glib beyond belief.

Especially when the very party doing the painting is riddled with issues of shady historical past, and an equally shady current one.

Just on another point you spelt both FF and FG incorrectly. A good ‘soldier’ like yourself should know it is ‘Fianna’ Fail and ‘Fine’ Gael.

But I suppose you will blame that on this Government- somehow as well? However, when/if SF get education it will be grand?

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On your point about emigration. Ireland has had a positive net migration- more people arriving than leaving. In fact the ROI population has hit a 15 year high.

I know I've asked here before but has anyone yet published a credible & accepted history of the current Sinn Féin? Even basic facts like when they were founded, where they were founded, why they were founded and by whom? Have their ideas and policies developed? Are there core ideologies that have never changed?

If you want to look forward, you need to know where you come from. But even for someone who lived through the Troubles, the above basic facts seem vague & fuzzy.

David Cullinane as minister for finance? David 'We broke the free state' Cullinane? There's no way a moron like that should be let near the country's finances.

Surely this is a tongue in cheek joke by you? That ministerial line up alone surely shows the caliber of TD Sinn Fein have? And would hopefully ward off anyone voting for them. Only way they get in is in coalition with FF. And I can't see that happening with Micheal Martin at the helm.

Paul Murphy a cabinet minister? You must be joking. That communist has no interest in doing anything other than hurling from the ditch.

Re-Unification minister? I'm pro UI but that's another crackpot idea. There hasn't even been a border poll yet, or even a hint that one may happen. I think the term you're looking for is minister for foreign affairs.

Michael Fitzmaurice as minister for Agriculture with Nessa Hourigan as minister for the environment? This government wouldn't last a week! Do you think those 2 could align on agricultural emissions reductions.

Crazy stuff.