Ursula Von Der Leyen - addressing the Oireachtas yesterday. Opinions on her speech?

There is a lot of social history backing up what Seth Brundle and WrenBoy are saying.

It isn't just a matter of deciding what sounds more plausible - look into what happened and what people at the time said about it if you're interested in the truth.

Anyway we are a "wind energy superpower" now so our time has finally come.

Ireland was the first colony of that Empire and while I believe its population was at one point more comparable to other parts of what became the UK, it was still smaller.

Ireland is no India to "manage", population or size or distance wise anyway that's for sure.

Much nearer to Britain, easier to occupy and settle + exert force on.

So you had a small "colony" that was very close and was under the the thumb + the native language under constant pressure for alot longer. Think by time of the famine the surviving bastions of the language were in the poorer parts of West/South of the country where the pressure to use English hadn't had as much success over previous x hundred years, and of course they got wiped out didn't they (other UK posters have informed me, in past threads to paraphrase, that was because they were dumb for growing just potatoes)?

No more people, no more language, no more problems! But sure it was all rational "choice" and English is just better etc.

Okay, "under the thumb" is probably a bad phrase but this country was definitely quite under control for long stretches of time.

I think the subjugation had succeeded quite well post the Great Famine. The only reason the Empire gave us independence (following another fairly minor flare up of violence from the natives) was the rulers had genuinely "evolved" and improved somehwhat (IMO), edit: in their views of the Irish anyway if perhaps not others in the Empire. They really didn't want to (again) use the brutality that was needed to put down some of the previous (far larger and more serious I think?) Irish rebellions or indeed what we see Russians attempting in Ukraine or China in their restive regions with very few blushes, right up to present day.

I have to agree it was indeed the "modern" language for Ireland/Irish people and Irish offered few advantages because you wouldn't be doing very much "trading" (or law, or generally anything involving authorities of the day) if you could not speak any, given that Ireland was an English/latterly British colony!

The minor flare up of violence I was referring to was the War of Independence, though I suppose 1916 is related. Again IMO the British actually were not as brutal in putting down rebellion in the Rising/War of Independence period compared to previous periods of Irish rebellion, for whatever reason. They decided not to crush it in that way (as you point out, I suppose they were already in process of or moving towards granting more self rule to other parts of the Empire anyway).

The spread of the coloniser's language in is common because their language is useful to know. Why is it useful? Well because they are the colonisers, the ruling power and they make the laws and set up the playing pitch. It is a chicken and egg thing and a power dynamic vs some kind of "free" consumer choice effect as it has been painted in some of the posts.

I do wonder if the demographic legacy of the plantations + the long period of British colonial settlement also hobbled the new Irish state from pursuing a far more aggressive + likely to be successful (say Israeli/Hebrew) type strategy to fully revitalise Irish on independence e.g. force its use in dealing with the state and authorities because that would have discriminated against protestants/remnants of the ascendency? Could also have caused more trouble integrating NI again (don't think the leading figures in the early Irish state expected NI would last as a separate entity in the way that it did). Don't know enough about the history/founding of the state to know if there is anything to that or sources that might shed light on it.

Anyway all this is a long long way off topic, kind of expected all these posts about the English language in Ireland would be nuked but anyways...

No, I don't think I will blame the impoverished people just trying to get by under a Colonial force who sought the suppression of their culture.

Pre 1921/22, the island was governed by the UK Parliament in London through its Dublin Castle administration in Ireland. You know this.

The English Government enacted laws that suppressed the use of Irish and made an impoverished populations life even harder to force them to learn English to get by, leading to an obvious decline in the use of Irish , this is the fault of Irish speakers greed somehow ??

Your "logic" escapes me, and tbh I don't care to read some thesis on why the English colonial forces were the good guys in all this.

Yeah, yeah, so now you don't have to back up your position conveniently.

What on earth..

"Prove" your own highly revisionist view. I blame Foster for this sort of neo-Lecky rubbish.

I'm still waiting for your proof.

Come on. I won't go away like you always do after asking for evidence.

Isn't this yet another case of you being beaten and trying to sneak away with just your tail between your legs and hoping it's nothing else? "Evidence!" is just your puppy plea hoping we all go away. You do it all the time.

I'm calling you out on that from now on btw. You won't be able to dodge debates you've lost with these "evidence!" or "proof" quips any longer. 😡

Ireland for most of its history post independence never really had its own independent currency, firstly as part of the Sterling area and later joining European mechanisms. The Sterling Area was perhaps a basis of developing and stabilising, but perhaps it retarded any sort of independent policy tailored for Ireland. Personally I don't see it as wholly good that Ireland just moved from the shelter of Britain to the present European hegemon. Basic things like a stable housing or rental market won't be easy to accomplish, first given politicians largely of social origins where accommodation is never insecure, so housing is a bit of a rhetorical pose, that is, they don't really care, and secondly if a party or parties tried to remove take tax benefits from reinvestment trusts and similar, as part of a new policy direction, there might be veiled threats from Berlin or Brussels, somewhat as before under the last FF bust.

It’s human nature to forget the struggles and hardships endured to find stability and prosperity. Many assume we got where we are alone.

Europe is beneficial to Ireland, those that don’t see it are usually in an echo chamber (probably YouTube) importing British and American political issues and stretching to apply them to Ireland.

1960s Ireland comparatively better than 2022 Ireland?

Or they could have run the economy competently, we wouldn't have needed a bailout which has (and will continue to) cost the Irish people an absolute fortune. With nothing whatsoever to show for it.

Net cost of banking bailout is going to finish up at well north of 20 billion euro. People bitch and moan about a hospital which may end up at 2 billion, which isn't great, but at least we'll end up with a f**king hospital in the end.

Absolutely daft post.

You're not making any coherent point.

I am pro EU, although I would like God to be enshrined in an EU constitution and I would prefer if the EU stopped picking on our Russian friends. I disagree with her assertion that Ireland never lost it`s soul. I think it has. To a certain extent I would blame the EU for that but ultimately it was Ireland`s choice. Sadly, I doubt most Irish people will connect the dots when the consequences of that arise.

You mean your Russian friends.