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solve the housing problem easily...some solutions?

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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,273 ✭✭✭The Spider


    Oh I’m serious 100% the calls for a ban on airbnb stink to high heaven of begrudgery, the effect on the market would be minor, it wouldn’t lead to tsunami of available property.

    It would however decimate a lot of towns and villages that rely on tourism, and cities as well, in fact tell me how much it costs for a family of 5 to stay in Dublin or Gakwsyvin a hotel rather than Airbnb? A hotel won’t provide a room for five people so 2 are required.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,273 ✭✭✭The Spider


    Oh it’s begrudery and you know it



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,273 ✭✭✭The Spider


    This reply says it all really, begrudery it is, and on top of that we’ll gouge the yanks for as much as we can get.

    weirdly I had a fair few Americans looking to stay in our place, why would they do that if they were overflowing with gold and diamonds as you suggest?



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,273 ✭✭✭The Spider


    its not making myself feel better like I said I have an apartment rented out to HAP tenants and zero issues with them as I said, the Airbnb is my holiday home that we let out sometimes when we’re not using it, and as I said if Airbnb was banned I wouldn’t put this on the market, and according to the link below cities who have tried to regulate have found that the Airbnb’s weren’t returned to the long term market, so kill your tourist industry and don’t have additional rentals very smart and it has to be said the leaders of Paris, New York and San Francisco are way more capable and digital savvy then our own bunch.


    Post edited by Boards.ie: Mike on


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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,320 ✭✭✭arctictree


    Just saw Eoin O'Broin (SF) and Mary Fitzpatrick (FF) on prime time. They were both asked what they would do or have done to prevent the mass exodus of small landlords. Neither of them could answer the question...


    They also would not accept that excess regulation and taxes are a major contribution to the exodus.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,892 ✭✭✭enricoh


    Rents rose 80% in 12 years, house prices probably went up the same amount.

    Sinn Fein on about a 3yr rent freeze, inflation running at 9% this year. Landlords will be put on the endangered species list when they get in!



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    The problem with your idea (and its not a bad idea btw) is there is not enough capacity in the system for the additional construction. There literally are not enough builders to build them all.

    Taking this into account, to address the housing shortage, you are left with the following options as I see it

    1. Bring over a load of foreign construction companies to build what you need
      1. Pro - Adds capacity over the long term
      2. Con - Going to be more expensive to do, slow to start, slow to see results
    2. Free up capacity from the existing built properties by going after short-term lets
      1. Pro - Capacity can be added quickly
      2. Con - Reduced short-term lets for holiday makers
    3. Increase social housing purchases
      1. Pro - More social housing for the less well off
      2. Con - Less housing for purchasers, less housing for private rentals so impacts capacity for other market segments
    4. Vacant property levy
      1. Pro - Will raise funds which can be used for construction and/or will drive some property owners to rent/sell their properties thereby adding capacity
      2. Con - REIT's and landlords are a powerful lobby because so many TD's are landlords so this will be done with weak powers of enforcement, also hard to determine who owns what property and how long its vacant for
    5. Utilise the hotel & B&B market for short term social housing
      1. Pro - Quick fix, lots of capacity
      2. Con - Not a long-term solution and a very poor option for families. Anyone stuck living in a hotel for more than 4 weeks will tell you it f'kn sucks balls after a while (did it myself with work). Also expensive.

    Every option has a good and bad point to it and no single option will fix the problem. If they kicked into overdrive and said they would do all options from tomorrow, it would still be years before there would be sufficient capacity to meet demand

    Note, options 3, 4 & 5 are being done already and are at various stages of implementation with varying degrees of effectiveness. Option 2 is just being kicked off.

    If enough additional capacity is not freed up by the recently announced option 2, then the last option left for the govt is to go for option 1, which they are likely loathe to do as this comes with its own issues

    Post edited by [Deleted User] on


  • Registered Users Posts: 493 ✭✭Shauna677


    Do the new rules announced today affect whole properties only and also those located in RPZ? If someone rents a room in their own home, are they unaffected likewise if someone has holiday home in isolated place are they exempt from the new regulations?



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,273 ✭✭✭The Spider


    I think properties not in RPZ’s are still exempt from planning permission but must still register etc, not sure about the room in house to be honest, from my view point if it gets to be too much hassle I’ll just stop letting it out altogether.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 493 ✭✭Shauna677


    Silly question sorry but is there a link for finding out the rpz's in the country?



  • Registered Users Posts: 493 ✭✭Shauna677


    Yeah it's not very opaque. The government will hardly expect home owners to begin renting their spare room out full time.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,273 ✭✭✭The Spider


    Ha I’ve been looking for a map there used to be one available



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,118 ✭✭✭StrawbsM


    At present, there are 6 Local Authority (LA) areas and 48 Local Electoral Areas (LEAs) which have been designated as Rent Pressure Zones.

    • 24th December 2016
    1. Cork City Council 
    2. Dublin City Council 
    3. Dún Laoghaire-Rathdown County Council
    4. Fingal County Council
    5. South Dublin County Council 
    • 27th January 2017
    1. Ballincollig – Carrigaline LEA, Co. Cork
    2. Galway City Central LEA, Co. Galway
    3. Galway City East LEA, Co. Galway
    4. Galway City West LEA, Co. Galway
    5. Celbridge-Leixlip LEA, Co. Kildare
    6. Naas LEA, Co. Kildare
    7. Newbridge LEA, Co. Kildare
    8. Ashbourne LEA, Co. Meath
    9. Laytown-Bettystown LEA, Co. Meath
    10. Ratoath LEA, Co. Meath
    11. Bray LEA, Co. Wicklow
    12. Wicklow LEA, Co. Wicklow
    • 24th March 2017
    1. Cobh LEA, Co. Cork
    2. Maynooth LEA, Co. Kildare
    • 22nd September 2017
    1. Drogheda LEA, Co. Louth
    2. Greystones LEA, Co. Wicklow
    • 28th March 2019
    1. Limerick City East LEA, Co. Limerick 
    2. Navan LEA, Co. Meath 
    • 2nd July 2019
    1. Fermoy LEA, Co. Cork
    2. Midleton LEA, Co. Cork
    3. Athenry-Oranmore LEA, Co. Galway
    4. Gort-Kinvara LEA, Co. Galway
    5. Kilkenny LEA, Co. Kilkenny
    6. Graiguecullen-Portarlington LEA, Co. Laois
    7. Portlaoise LEA, Co. Laois 
    8. Limerick City North LEA, Co. Limerick
    9. Limerick City West LEA, Co. Limerick 
    10. Ardee LEA, Co. Louth 
    11. Dundalk-Carlingford LEA, Co. Louth
    12. Dundalk South LEA, Co. Louth 
    13. Kells LEA, Co. Meath
    14. Trim LEA, Co. Meath
    15. Waterford City East LEA, Co. Waterford 
    16. Waterford City South LEA, Co. Waterford 
    17. Athlone LEA, Co. Westmeath
    18. Gorey LEA, Co. Wexford
    19. Arklow LEA, Co. Wicklow  
    • 26th September 2019
    1. Carlow LEA, Co. Carlow 
    2. Macroom LEA, Co. Cork
    • 18th December 2019
    1. Cobh LEA, Co. Cork (1st Cobh LEA designation occurred in 2017, see above)
    2. Piltown LEA, Co. Kilkenny 
    3. Sligo Strandhill LEA, Co. Sligo 
    4. Baltinglass LEA, Co. Wicklow 
    • 22nd April 2020
    1. Mallow LEA, Co. Cork
    2. Killarney LEA, Co. Kerry
    3. Athy LEA, Co. Kildare
    4. Tullamore LEA, Co. Offaly
    5. Mullingar LEA, Co. Westmeath
    • 16th July 2020
    1. Bandon-Kinsale LEA, Co. Cork 
    • 29th September 2020 
    1. Kildare County Council

    From RTB site



  • Registered Users Posts: 493 ✭✭Shauna677


    Thanks for that, I thought they would be far more areas listed seeing it's virtually impossible to get rented accommodation in any part of the country at present.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    The short term letting bill has been released, feel free to have a look




  • Registered Users Posts: 888 ✭✭✭nolivesmatter


    I noticed the number of houses up rent on Daft has gone from 800-ish a few months ago to almost 1400. Any particular reason for that? What am I missing?



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,852 ✭✭✭✭Idbatterim


    Design far more affordable 35 sq metre apartments And allow studios of 20-2/ sq m. Far more local elderly friendly accommodation, then get their houses to families etc..

    Allow adu, auxiliary development units. Like in the US, basically garden rooms... existing companies can have these up in a single day!!! Services are already on site...

    5% vacant or derelict property levy ..



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,118 ✭✭✭StrawbsM


    I’ll just be registering my property with failte Ireland once they have their system up and running. That bill mentions that registration with F.I. will be updated (hasn’t been in a very long time) to include all different types of accommodation so I don’t think there will be as many properties going back to long term rental. Mine wouldn’t be going back to long term even if my F.I. application was declined.

    Dunno how much registration will cost but should be a deductible business expense.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,018 ✭✭✭happyoutscan


    I have a feeling that there will be very little chance of successfully registering if in a RPZ or if it is not your primary residence. I think many Airbnb landlords will just utilise their existing network of past guests for future cash prices. Martin's interference is a big blow to people who rely on Airbnb as their income (I'm not talking about landlords with multiple properties on Airbnb).

    I would hope that some common sense is used but can't see it. The governments own failings will seriously impact tourism and small business in this country to cover up their own initial ineptness.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,740 ✭✭✭It wasnt me123


    You should be the next Housing Minister.

    What we need as a nation is outside the box thinking. Not every person needs a 3 bed semi - building purpose built retirement type accommodation in towns, near all facilities, frees up 3 bed semis for families. 10% vacant property levy - make everyone, even commercial enterprises - have a social conscience - not necessarily social housing (free) but a social conscience thinks of society as a whole - what is good for everyone.

    Planning is very important though - not the Mickey Mouse stuff going on now - objections to planned housing need to be real - not you.are blocking my light or bringing down the price of my home type stuff - planning should visit construction as stage 1, stage 2 etc - this happens in Australia - you don’t get the farce of fire hazard apartments that exist in Dublin now.

    The government need to grow a pair and stop rabbiting on about what they plan to do and just do it.



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,852 ✭✭✭✭Idbatterim


    https://epaper.independentnewsstand.ie/titles/sundayindependent/8312/publications/352/articles/1722363/29/2/?secret=f796a39a873b9d8385449abd82fe511a

    Local government ineptitude is at the heart of the housing crisis

    COLM MCCARTHY

    The pace of residential construction is declining, new data from the Central Statistics Office confirms. Planning permissions for apartments have been weakest of all housing types while figures from Daft.ie show rents continue to rise.

    Especially in Dublin, the supply of private rental accommodation has dried up and there is no prospect of any early improvement in housing affordability, whether measured by purchase prices or rents. Schools are unable to recruit teachers in the capital; gardaí, nurses and other employees on middle incomes are being squeezed out of a city increasingly the preserve of high earners.

    Housing experts are unanimous that affordability cannot be achieved without a sharp and sustained increase in new build, focused on the areas of greatest excess demand.

    In a series of recent reports, Professor Ronan Lyons and colleagues at Trinity College Dublin have argued the targets for new build, in addition to under-attainment, are in any event far too low. Adding 30,000 new units a year seems to be about the limit of government ambition. Even if built where most needed, this would not be enough to make a difference.

    It is government policy to skew population growth away from the Dublin area. The National Development Plan contains an explicit objective to this effect, which is feeding into the decisions of local planners about residential zoning. If the excess demand driving rents skywards in the capital is not met by increased supply, the dysfunction in the market will intensify.

    Over the last several decades there has been a steady outflow of Dubliners into adjoining counties, creating sprawl, long-distance commuting, a hostile environment for public transport and a displacement of population by income band. Politicians in the Dublin suburbs have even opposed new residential schemes on the explicit grounds that more supply would depress house prices.

    A report from the ESRI has calculated that greater supply would indeed see prices drop: an extra 10,000 units a year delivering 35,000 for the next decade would cut prices by 12pc. Ronan Lyons reckons the target should be higher again, perhaps as much as 50,000, which would mean an even larger drop, particularly if building was encouraged in those areas where the affordability crisis is most intense.

    There is simply no sign of radical reform in housing provision, conceded to be the greatest current policy failure. When the first item on the to-do list must be dodged, the soft option is to substitute activity for progress. So it is with housing policy.

    Actually building more housing requires unpalatable political decisions and there is an unspoken conspiracy across the parties to avoid real-world action that would ease supply blockages. Subsidies to purchasers, rent control, assorted stimuli to demand, minor amendments to planning laws, ideological bias against foreign investors in landlord companies, all provide hiding places for the politically craven.

    The media portray specious objections to each proposal which comes along as local democracy in action. Any housing policy requires building more residential units in some identified location, most logically in the places where prices and rents are highest. Every prospective location has a residents' association, or will quickly create one. And every residents' association finds supporters in the main political parties, many of whose councillors, TDs and senators compete to lead the opposition to whatever has been proposed.

    All parties profess concern about the extraordinary level of prices and rents and concede that the housing crisis is a colossal policy failure. But they frustrate each and every proposal for more actual housing.

    Whatever happened to the Housebuilders' Party? This used to be a term of abuse aimed at Fianna Fáil to which none of today's parties can credibly aspire.

    Two current controversies in Dublin illustrate the pattern. Plans for 1,600 units at the Clonliffe site, close to Croke Park and walking distance from Dublin city centre, have been on ice for more than a decade, opposed by politicians of all parties, notably Sinn Féin leader and local TD Mary Lou McDonald. Across the city at South Circular Road, a 410-unit apartment scheme on the Player Wills site, where cigarette production ceased in 2005, is headed to the European Court no less. Opposition from local residents, led by councillors, has prevailed against a scheme approved by An Bord Pleanála.




    Last Wednesday, Tánaiste Leo Varadkar pledged the Government would do everything possible to address the housing crisis and use every policy lever available to it. The Government would be focusing in the coming weeks on what it can do to accelerate the delivery of new housing, he said.

    The principal initiative will be a new planning bill, which will propose, for example, that people from Donegal will no longer be able to raise objections to housing developments in Wexford. Since Wexford is generously endowed with home-grown objectors, this will make no difference. Nor will it inhibit An Taisce, which objects to residential and other developments in every county in Ireland.

    There could be changes to planning which would help. The State delegates important functions to special-purpose agencies, semi-state commercial companies and to local government. Since the State's foundation, there has been a steady decline in willingness to rely on local authorities, which have lost functions in areas such as health and education. Until recently they were directly involved in the water industry, as they had been in electricity supply until the 1930s. Any new planning act should consider relieving them of all responsibility for land-use decisions, on the grounds that local government failure is at the heart of the housing crisis.

    Local councils have come to represent the Nimby interest, unwilling to zone land for residential development, reluctant to grant usable planning permissions even on land that enjoys zoning, and sluggish in the provision of essential services to developers. The 'local democracy' defence is specious: mortgage-free homeowners have been granted excessive veto rights through the local council involvement, ultimately the power to prevent the next generation from joining their ranks.



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,852 ✭✭✭✭Idbatterim




  • Registered Users Posts: 283 ✭✭TSQ


    Ever hear of lies, damn lies and statistics? There are plenty of new rental only apartment blocks advertising on Daft, but despite the hundreds of units available, each ad only counts as one unit available to rent, same as a small landlord with his one and only rentalhouse. Each of these multiple unit ads advertise properties available for immediate occupancy. In the meantime, any property with a listing on Airbnb is counted in the statistics, whether available now or 3 months from now, whether a family home being offered once or twice a year or a a unit in a aparthotel available 365 days Not one of the hundreds of units in aparthotels, student residences with temporary exemptions to their planning permissions to allow tourist rentals, and holiday homes which are precluded by their pp from being used as family homes, all advertising short term lets, will come back on the residential rental market. People with an agenda have always used statistics to support whatever cause, good or bad, they are backing.

    Meanwhile, in D1, near the Point, there must be 500 or 600 apartments almost ready for the rental market… but once advertised they will statistically only add 1 property to Daft rental statistics (or maybe 3 if each property type is advertised separately). Once advertised, these apartments will still be out of reach of the average family or couple, the problem not availability but affordability. Also, allowing owners of homes in holiday villages to get permission for these to be occupied for residential as opposed to tourist use, would bring a significant number of homes into the rental market for families. This change of use is impossible to obtain currently.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    This will help, councils can identify empty properties, put buyers in touch with the owners to see if it can be sold on to accommodate others.

    Councils will have the power to CPO properties if it comes to that.

    So much for "well I'd rather leave it empty"

    RTE news : Mayo plan to amend 'total blight' of vacant properties





  • Registered Users Posts: 4,320 ✭✭✭arctictree


    We have a holiday rental property and applied to get the planning changed to residential use and it was refused.

    Obviously the council don't think there is a housing crises going on.



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,519 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    If you read the article it's a load of waffle. It speaks about engaging with house owners. Its hoping CPO will be a last resort.

    Generally what will happen will be the LA will end up paying away over the top for semi derelict or even derelict properties and pay a small fortune for refurbishment. Most of these will be one off properties that need d one of redesign and rebuild solutions. LA cannot even refurbish there own LA houses HTF will they refurbish one off houses on any scale.

    The other thing is they talk about carrying out CPO's on vacant houses and reselling on the open market. Wait for that clusterfook to happen. You will find that they over pay by 50+% and when the houses go on resale the local councillors sone or daughter ends up buying them below market value. They are talking about 2.5k nationwide, even if it carried that on yearly it would not keep up with the vacancy rate.

    Hilarious, most LL's leaving the business have 1-2 properties this is not going to stop them holding on to there portfolios if they so wish to. Worse case scenario the LA will purchase one at 50% above it's market value

    Neither is this going to impact on a lot of the vacant houses most temporary vacant houses will remain vacant and beyond the reach of LA. The lad going abroad for a year or two, the elderly person gone to live with there son or daughter, the person gone into a nursing home, the person that has inherited a house and is holding onto it as a retirement home or for there children

    It will do f@@kall for supply in the short-term and very little in the long-term

    Slava Ukrainii



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,186 ✭✭✭✭jmayo


    They can fook right off.

    A county council using taxpayer funds to CPO private property to house who.

    Oh yeah they are going to sell them to buyers ... where are all the jobs going to be for these people that will be wanting to live in the likes of Mayo?

    Or are these houses going to be for welfare dependents moved into areas?

    Let me guess, seeing as this is Ireland of the push/pull strokes fame, property is CPOed, then ends up in the hands of some private entity that refurbishs it, only to rent to local authority for use by welfare tenants.

    I am not allowed discuss …



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  • Registered Users Posts: 62 ✭✭TruthEnforcer


    Anytime I hear of some sort of 'Plan' involving Mayo County Council my mind starts going into overdrive ...

    Who started / developed this initiative? ..well it looks like a former auctioneer from Claremorris ..and on the face of it could be of some assistance to reducing derelict sites while offering much needed accommodation.....however..

    Why is it only involving the one person who's pushing for this . Through his own developed website ....and what are they getting out of it ?

    Why is it not including all Auctioneers.

    The reason properties are on a Derelict sites List are numerous and in very few cases will the owners be still willing to sell under this sort of scheme ...so in my view ..this will come to nothing but another "much talk about nothing".


    Reading the Local Government Auditors report on Mayo County Council includes a reference to Derelict Site listing as well as much more goverence problems Mayo County Council has to sort out rather than spending taxpayers money and time on this possible White Elephant



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