myostatin gene

mikeoh · 02-09-2016 11:48pm #1

What is the difference between single carrier and double carrier and replication etc. and how in the hell are more and more Angus bull presenting with it.........is it because of dodgy breeding?

pedigree 6 · 02-09-2016 11:58pm

mikeoh wrote: »

What is the difference between single carrier and double carrier and replication etc. and how in the hell are more and more Angus bull presenting with it.........is it because of dodgy breeding?

I had to look it up.
The double muscle gene.

Angus cattle are turning into Belgian Blue cattle.

Learn something new everyday.

pedigree 6 · 03-09-2016 12:04am

pedigree 6 wrote: »

I had to look it up.
The double muscle gene.

Angus cattle are turning into Belgian Blue cattle.

Learn something new everyday.

I got that wrong if they are lacking the myostatin gene the animal will be double muscled.
Good that they are testing for it.

MickeyShtyles · 03-09-2016 12:15am

pedigree 6 wrote: »

I had to look it up.
The double muscle gene.

Angus cattle are turning into Belgian Blue cattle.

Learn something new everyday.

Belgia Blue and Piedmontese are the two I know for it. Very tasty meat off the Piedmontese.

greysides · 03-09-2016 12:32am

I've a feeling there's a strain of double-muscled Charolais cattle too.

Genghis Cant · 03-09-2016 12:33am

greysides wrote: »

I've a feeling there's a strain of double-muscled Charolais cattle too.

Culard Charolais by any chance?

greysides · 03-09-2016 12:35am

Sounds right.

patsy_mccabe · 03-09-2016 8:21am

I guess it's similar to the Polled genes. You could selective breed to either, keep or get rid of the condition.
Read before that strightly speaking it's not a double muscle as such. More like the normal muscles just grow more.

mikeoh · 03-09-2016 9:26am

pedigree 6 wrote:

Learn something new everyday.

But surely it shouldn't be in native breeds....just talking from a Angus point of view I see new bulls like gear fury and westellen diageo are carrying it as for that bull Peter pershore he no more looks like an Angus . I say the neighbour's lim bull must have slipped in somewhere in the back breeding

charolais0153 · 03-09-2016 9:56am

Genghis Cant wrote: »

Culard Charolais by any chance?

The new title looks well on ya

J.O. Farmer · 03-09-2016 10:17am

mikeoh wrote: »

But surely it shouldn't be in native breeds....just talking from a Angus point of view I see new bulls like gear fury and westellen diageo are carrying it as for that bull Peter pershore he no more looks like an Angus . I say the neighbour's lim bull must have slipped in somewhere in the back breeding

It could occur naturally. The double muscling isn't caused by a "new" myostatin gene but more that the myostatin gene being faulty.

The myostatin gene makes myostatin protein which controls muscle growth to keep it "normal". If something happens to the myostatin gene so it's not working right you can get double muscling. If the myostatin gene in the angus changes for some reason you could get double muscle angus.

Now all that has to happen is for breeders to breed the double muscled animals and the dodgy gene gets passed on.

blue5000 · 03-09-2016 12:05pm

mikeoh wrote: »

But surely it shouldn't be in native breeds....just talking from a Angus point of view I see new bulls like gear fury and westellen diageo are carrying it as for that bull Peter pershore he no more looks like an Angus . I say the neighbour's lim bull must have slipped in somewhere in the back breeding

AFAIK belgian blues started off from shorthorn cattle that lacked the gene, recessive might be the technical word. By in-breeding or crossing only animals with the double muscle within the shorthorn breed they eventually ended up with the belgian blue breed. It happened after WW2 when food was still scarce.

It's possible a bit of out crossing happened in Canada with angus cattle before they closed the herd book, now 10 or 12 generations on of pedigree breeding the recessive (?) gene has managed to sneak it's way in to pedigree angus cattle here. Or maybe it was always there.

J.O. Farmer · 03-09-2016 12:16pm

blue5000 wrote: »

AFAIK belgian blues started off from shorthorn cattle that lacked the gene, recessive might be the technical word. By in-breeding or crossing only animals with the double muscle within the shorthorn breed they eventually ended up with the belgian blue breed. It happened after WW2 when food was still scarce.

It's possible a bit of out crossing happened in Canada with angus cattle before they closed the herd book, now 10 or 12 generations on of pedigree breeding the recessive (?) gene has managed to sneak it's way in to pedigree angus cattle here. Or maybe it was always there.

Recessive would be the correct term where 2 copies of the gene are needed for a trait to show.

The myostatin gene was always there and working. It's possible the defective gene was introduced as you suggest in Canada or its possible the gene mutated alone the line.

Gene sequencing might be able to show which if anyone was so inclined to discover the origin.

pedigree 6 · 03-09-2016 12:30pm

Holstein cattle would have a myostatin gene. All (normal ) cattle have a myostatin gene. Its as ye say a defective (not working) myostatin gene that causes double muscling.

wiggy123 · 03-09-2016 10:43pm

Myostatin gene from my understanding is ok a trait, the problem is-if it becomes the double mystatin gene--as its the BB then! which not good for angus pb breeding... limousine had the myostatin gene, but its a ok gene... as for that pershore bull-no harm never was a true angus.. see his pics--more a black lim/bue cross.. along irish folk never used him...

tanko · 03-09-2016 11:11pm

From a commercial point of view, double muscled Angus Bulls sound like a great idea. Easy finished cattle with big ar$es, what more could you want.

pedigree 6 · 03-09-2016 11:34pm

tanko wrote: »

From a commercial point of view, double muscled Angus Bulls sound like a great idea. Easy finished cattle with big ar$es, what more could you want.

A parthenaise.:p

Bellview · 04-09-2016 2:14am

tanko wrote: »

From a commercial point of view, double muscled Angus Bulls sound like a great idea. Easy finished cattle with big ar$es, what more could you want.

OK in suckler but not for dairy.. Majority of Angus are for dairy.. Also not sure what the taste of beef would be like..

Bellview · 04-09-2016 2:18am

wiggy123 wrote: »

Myostatin gene from my understanding is ok a trait, the problem is-if it becomes the double mystatin gene--as its the BB then! which not good for angus pb breeding... limousine had the myostatin gene, but its a ok gene... as for that pershore bull-no harm never was a true angus.. see his pics--more a black lim/bue cross.. along irish folk never used him...

Ironically when that bull died there were tears in Scotland and some in Ireland... Some of his sins are in ai so still plenty damage to be done...even a few horns to grow

Bullocks · 04-09-2016 10:01am

tanko wrote: »

From a commercial point of view, double muscled Angus Bulls sound like a great idea. Easy finished cattle with big ar$es, what more could you want.

I was thinking the same . We have had a few AA out BB cows and they were stylish enough weanlings

ganmo · 04-09-2016 11:39am

http://www.frontiersin.org/files/Articles/179208/fgene-07-00014-HTML/image_m/fgene-07-00014-t001.jpg

7 different mutations of the myostatin gene and their associated breeds

Hard Knocks · 20-12-2022 11:14pm

If you cross a cow with 2 F genes and a bull with 2 Q genes. Will the calf have 1 F and 1 Q (1 gene from both Cow and bull) or is it 25% double F, 25% double Q and 50% 1 F 1 Q?

Base price · 20-12-2022 11:33pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120020016#Comment_120020016

I don't know but @patsy_mccabe or @tanko can point you in the right direction

patsy_mccabe · 20-12-2022 11:51pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120020016#Comment_120020016

With polled cattle, the polled gene is dominant, but I've never heard of dominance mentioned with the Myostatin gene. The attached document below does say that the Q variant is 'partially dominant'. My guess is they don't know enough about dominance yet.

So to answer your question, it's a roll of the dice. As you said, 25% chance of double F and 25% double Q, 50% chance F/Q.

Limousin-Fact-Sheet-3-Myostatin-FINAL.pdf

charolais0153 · 21-12-2022 12:03am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120020168#Comment_120020168

they get one from each parent your not going to get a double nt821 off a friesian cow for example

Hard Knocks · 21-12-2022 12:38am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120020168#Comment_120020168

Thanks, I’m trying to understand it a bit more so to cross the right bulls on our cows

tanko · 21-12-2022 12:52am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120020298#Comment_120020298

Not many bulls have two Q genes afaik, are you looking at a bull that has two?

I see Claddagh McCabe has two Q genes which is very unusual for a Lim. Madison and Joskins have one Q and one F.

charolais0153 · 21-12-2022 1:00am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120020298#Comment_120020298

doesnt change much therell be good and bad bulls with all types of myostatin.

Hard Knocks · 21-12-2022 1:06am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120020334#Comment_120020334

Just used 2 F’s and 2 Q’s for an example, thought it might be simpler

Have myostatin tested some of the cows, 2 F’s, 1F, F+Q, 1Q, 1N are some of the results, I just wanted to understand if 1 gene came from the dam & 1 from the sire, or is it a possibility of different options based upon the combination. That way I can avoid certain bulls for certain cows. I’d like to avoid 2Q’s or 2N’s. I’d No Calving issues with 2 F’s

J.O. Farmer · 21-12-2022 1:22am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120020368#Comment_120020368

It's always one from each parent. It's 50:50 which one is passed on

The 2 Fs will definitely pass on an F as they don't have anything else to pass on so best to avoid any bull with an F on them unless you like Russian Roulette as it'd be a 50% chance of a bull with 1 F passing it on.

Below shows how it would work if you had both parents with mixed genes.

charolais0153 · 21-12-2022 1:27am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120020368#Comment_120020368

ya ur right one comes from dam and one from sire best bulls to use on cows with a q or n are double f loki, eby etc. doesnt mean u cant use q/f but just more risk plenty of bulls with q gene used on blue cows without much hassle

myostatin gene

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