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"Green" policies are destroying this country

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  • Registered Users Posts: 12,993 ✭✭✭✭JRant


    Let's take a quick look so.

    Ending of free workplace parking - why is this even a thing? If you can park at work for free, happy days, does no harm to anyone else.

    A minimum parking charge in all urban areas - money making racket. I live in an urban area, should I be charged for parking at my house?

    Congestion charges - another money making racket.

    An increase in fuel costs - yes, this one is definitely a popular move. All those articles saying how good it is to see the cost of fuel increase have really gone down well. Less money in the ordinary person's pocket and more taxes and profits for companies is definitely a big vote getter.

    There's an underlying theme to all these "initiatives" but I can't quite put my wallet on it.

    "Well, yeah, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man"



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    The same answer applies to each of your points

    Ending of free workplace parking - why is this even a thing? If you can park at work for free, happy days, does no harm to anyone else.

    Free parking makes the car more convenient. Changing that makes it less appealing thereby encouraging modal shift

    A minimum parking charge in all urban areas - money making racket. I live in an urban area, should I be charged for parking at my house?

    Cheap parking makes the car more convenient. Changing that makes it less appealing thereby encouraging modal shift

    Congestion charges - another money making racket.

    Free access in the least efficient mode makes that mode more appealing. Charging for that mode makes it less appealing, thereby encouraging modal shift

    An increase in fuel costs - yes, this one is definitely a popular move. All those articles saying how good it is to see the cost of fuel increase have really gone down well. Less money in the ordinary person's pocket and more taxes and profits for companies is definitely a big vote getter.

    Cheap fuel makes the car more appealing. Changing that makes it less appealing thereby encouraging modal shift

    This is all covered in detail in the 5CDMS document



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,993 ✭✭✭✭JRant


    "Well, yeah, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man"



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    The phrase "when you're accustomed to privilege, equality feels likes oppression" applies



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,481 ✭✭✭KildareP


    Record fuel and electricity prices this year haven't curtailed car usage nor has it stopped us hitting new records for peak grid demand. Why? Because for many people they simply have no choice but to use the car and electricity.

    Free parking, I'd wager most people working in any sort of major town or city haven't ever had the option to park full stop, never mind park for free, so I would expect any impact in cities will be limited. It'll be the rural dweller working in industrial estates that'll get screwed because good luck finding a suitable bus to get them there and back for work friendly hours.

    I can already hear the baffled and confused cries from Government of how could we be losing more Gardai, more teachers, more healthcare workers, more hospitality workers, more night oriented workers?

    Maybe they should all just try a cargo bike... Or just raze everything and anything outside of an existing bus or rail line to the ground, and forcibly move anyone living somewhere even remotely resembling rural into high density apartments in a few select cities? No more one off housing, cars or turf fires for you!



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    The work done by DCC over the last few decades on reducing car numbers going into the capital have shown its quite possible, feasible, realistic and necessary, to reduce the priority and benefits of private cars in favour of more sustainable modes.



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,993 ✭✭✭✭JRant


    It really doesn't apply here at all. It's a BS phrase used to justify all sorts of nonsense. It's interesting terminology though and gives a good insight. Talk of "modal changes", "privilege", "equality" etc are all designed to frame the conversation on your terms. No thanks though. It's nonsense and needs to be called out for it.

    "Well, yeah, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man"



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    and yet its pretty much spot on when you claim actions to reprioritize space away from the private car as "authoritarian"



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,993 ✭✭✭✭JRant


    It's the old cart before the horse scenario. If you build a functioning public transport system that actually suits the user then people will flock to it. The Luas is a great success but is far too limited in it's reach. Build better and then look at other options to make it less attractive. Don't punish people for not using a service that doesn't actually work or exist for them.

    "Well, yeah, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man"



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Which is why investment in transport has shifted away from roads for private cars to sustainable modes.

    Up to now it was skewed the other way around which is why every city is gridlocked and the alternatives so poor but its changing due to the increased funding.

    What that increase looks like is

    • Bus lanes
    • Bike lanes
    • Replacing ICE Fleet with EV
    • New bus routes
    • Higher frequency routes
    • New rail lines
    • More rail carriages
    • Greater permeability for pedestrians
    • Pedestrian /bike infrastructure (bridges etc)
    • Etc etc etc etc

    However it takes time to address a century of under investment so while it may not suit you to switch right now it does suit others.

    As investment bears fruit (carrot) and the convenience of the car is whittled away (stick) more and more will make the switch.

    Important to note that this does not equate to a car ban or anti-car or whatever slant some like to put on the reprioritisation of road space. It will still be possible to drive, just it will become the least attractive option for an increasing number as time goes by and progress builds.

    Personally I've never been happier or as well off as since I got rid of the car but at the same time I've 2 bookings for GoCar over the Xmas period as it makes sense on those occasions. It will bring me to 14 trips this year using that service so using a car is a the exception rather than the room but I still use it when my needs call for it.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 27,163 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    I would have thought the middle of the day in summer had quite a high demand for electricity for quite a lot of Europe?

    Thank goodness the planet isn't getting any warmer...



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Sounds like a long list of good stuff in the newest CAP, we'll find out later today

    RTE news : Updated Climate Action Plan to be unveiled by Govt


    The plan includes a climate action roadmap for every sector of the economy consistent with the legally binding target of a 51% reduction in greenhouse gas emissions by 2030.

    Emissions from electricity, for instance, are to be cut by 75%; transport by 50%; residential buildings by 40%; and agriculture by 25%.

    It will target a 20% reduction in car journeys, almost a third of private cars to be electric by 2030, and solar panels on all new residential buildings, public buildings, and where possible, schools by 2025.

    An additional 28,000 hectares are to be planted with forestry by 2025.

    By that date too, new green electricity tariffs incorporating premium prices for electricity at peak times, are to be developed.

    A range of transport demand measures are also to be explored including the possibility of congestion charges in areas where there are viable alternative transport options available.

    Other measures will see a reduction in car-parking spaces and higher parking charges.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,670 ✭✭✭thinkabouit


    I’ve read the past few pages & im still convinced these policy’s, not just the FFG by the way but the whole EU policy’s on this are an astronomical waste of money, will achieve absolutely NOTHING & everybodys quality of life screwed.

    Dacor posted a link that 160 million will be spent retraining the people who lost their jobs in the midlands. All for what exactly?

    it’s the blind leading the blind



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Personally I think the Just Transition program is a good use of money and fully support it. The same program is in operation in other EU states and the US too and is helping those associated with defunct fossil fuel businesses, retrain and find alternative employment.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,321 ✭✭✭paddyisreal


    I wonder will Eamon Ryan and the rest of the city dwelling TDs show leadership and ditch the car ? They keep telling the city folk to get away from the car and use the fantastic public transport. He will in his bollocks ! Another day the government launch a fantasy plan that everyone knows has no chance of being delivered. There will be more vehicles on the road in ten years than there is now unless the government want the economy to collapse ( I'm beginning to think the greens want exactly that ).



  • Registered Users Posts: 16,261 ✭✭✭✭whisky_galore


    Lol not a hope. Do as I say not as I do again.

    No ditching of ministerial cars, flying all over the world for Paddys Day as usual.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,609 ✭✭✭Tonesjones


    93% of the population didn't vote for Ryan and his greens. He has no mandate



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,481 ✭✭✭KildareP


    Yes, and well done to them for doing so. What exactly is this proposed policy to achieve in addition as a result, if the work is already underway at scale?

    Where will the boundary lie with what is an "urban" area that requires parking to be charged for, and the suburb where it does not?

    Who benefits from any new parking charges collected where they weren't before?



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,481 ✭✭✭KildareP


    Who gets to define "equality"?

    Because at the moment it would appear it's one individual and their large cohort of assistants who think nothing of flying here, there and everywhere to decide what to tell everyone else back in Ireland about what they should be doing to reduce their climate footprint (But don't dare point this out to them, they don't seem to like that: https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/green-party-leader-eamon-ryan-says-there-shouldnt-be-guilt-trip-over-ministers-taking-business-class-flights-41846386.html)

    I'm afraid the "Do as I say, not as I do" attitude definitely doesn't sit well with most people, you'll very quickly lose the room.



  • Registered Users Posts: 27,163 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo




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  • Registered Users Posts: 18,244 ✭✭✭✭namloc1980


    The number of people who don't understand our electoral system of PR is frightening.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,913 ✭✭✭Danno


    Removing cars from the roads allows for these issues to be addressed

    It was the private motorist who paid for the upkeep of said roads and streets for the last ~75 years. Your gonna need another source of income to fill the potholes on the bus and cycle lanes.



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,993 ✭✭✭✭JRant


    Why did you leave out this part, as it would be the most important part of the entire article.

    "But there was a lack of detail and no clear roadmap for how these targets would be achieved."

    We have a crazy situation whereby Moe, Larry, and Curly passed legislation making emission targets legally binding and not a single clue how to actually meet those targets. In a functioning democracy that wouldn't be allowed to happen and needs to be challenged in the courts.

    We could be well on our way to reducing generation emissions if we had built more gas to replace coal and oil stations. Alas, that would take forward planning and a clear idea of what to do. Something successive governments have continually failed to do and it's become even worse with Eamo and Co scatter gun approach.

    "Well, yeah, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man"



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,244 ✭✭✭✭namloc1980


    When will pedestrians start paying for all those footpaths and their upkeep? Absolutely taking the piss looking for safe walking routes and new footpaths and paying nothing for it. Pedestrians have been privileged for far too long without paying for it.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,609 ✭✭✭Tonesjones


    93% of the population didn't vote for the greens. Fact

    "BuT iTz hour sistim " means nothing.

    Ryan and Co have no mandate.

    Out out

    Youl be defending the dictatorship of the Kim dynasty yet.

    "But its their system "



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,993 ✭✭✭✭JRant


    Oh, don't you worry about that. They are extremely efficient at finding new ways to take money out of your pocket. Look at the insane UBI initiative which could cost up to 50 billion a year and increase the tax rate to 60%. The greens love nothing better than spending other people's money and will go to any lengths to take that money out of your paycheck to achieve their goals.

    "Well, yeah, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man"



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,244 ✭✭✭✭namloc1980


    You just proved my point. Thanks.

    By your logic nobody ever has a mandate for anything. 75% of people didn't vote for SF the last time and they got the most 1st preferences!

    You haven't the foggiest idea. We have PR in Ireland. Look it up 👍



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,993 ✭✭✭✭JRant


    We broke our peak usuage record no more that a week ago. So it's literally the highest ever and by a good distance as well.

    "Well, yeah, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man"



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Just have to thank the mods here for keeping this thread free of conspiracy loons sprouting their great reset "told you so" malarkey.

    With all these news about reducing car journeys by 5% (including electric car journeys),they have been harping on about it being part of the Great Reset on other platforms. Apparently the start of effectively ending private ownership of cars. Ridiculous.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 8,913 ✭✭✭Danno


    Up to now it was skewed the other way around which is why every city is gridlocked and the alternatives so poor but its changing due to the increased funding.

    So much wrong with this statement. You'll find that some of the biggest spends throughout the history of the state were in:

    • Widening and straightening routes 1970s-1990s for safety reasons and to allow faster transfer of people, goods and services between the regions.
    • The establishment of the N and R road network and bypasses of towns and villages, again for safety reasons and to allow faster transfer of goods and services
    • In the 1990s and through to the present day we've built a motorway network to connect the cities and to provide for the most efficient and safest transport of people, goods and services.

    Apart from bus lanes, there has been fook all change to the road network within cities themsleves as there is literally no physical space to do so. When you say that the reason that cities are gridlocked because of the investment in roads there you couldn't be further from the truth.

    Why is it - the city which gets the most investment in public transport (Dublin) is the most gridlocked city in Ireland?

    Take a step back and look at the bigger picture - it's not someone driving from Maynooth to Sandyford thats causing the gridlock. Thats the symptom of a whole different problem. What the greens and their advocates here are doing is effectively akin to a crazy doctor prescribing chemotherapy as a cure for a patient with a cold.



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