New Children's Hospital - A symbol of Ireland's scandalous and shady behavior

Flinty997 · 15-12-2022 1:26am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119998267#Comment_119998267

Did you think x rays are only for falls?

ILoveYourVibes · 15-12-2022 3:56am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119998349#Comment_119998349

That reminds me st james x ray dept has now closed down because they dont have staff...happened in sept...for the foreseeable future

Patrick2010 · 15-12-2022 1:46pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119998489#Comment_119998489

Not exactly....

*** Patient Notice ***

St James's Hospital is operating on an appointment only basis for chest and trauma X-ray services until further notice.

All GP X-ray referrals are by appointment only. Please contact the Radiology Department to arrange an appointment

https://www.stjames.ie/services/diagim/generalx-ray/

jmayo · 15-12-2022 3:21pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119999574#Comment_119999574

Yes you have prebook your trauma x-ray.

Am I the only one that thingks that is a bit, well to use the term - Irish?

Bit like the Eye and Ear A&E, don't damage your eyes at the weekend as their A&E is closed.

Flinty997 · 15-12-2022 3:59pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119999997#Comment_119999997

Trauma might not mean what you think it means in medical terms. It might not be severe or life threatening.

I'm open to correction but A&E do close. They have a rota system for coverage.

jmayo · 15-12-2022 4:17pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120000219#Comment_120000219

Ehh I thought Trauma was Trauma or do the HSE as per usual have a different meaning to the world consensus?

And are you saying A&E in James closes their doors.

We aint talking about Roscommon, Cavan, etc we are talking about one of the main hospitals in Dublin, the very reason that the new children's hospital is sited there ?

Flinty997 · 15-12-2022 4:40pm

I think the ambulances get directed to different hospitals at peak times. Or if one can't take patients for some reason.

Afaik Medical terms aren't always the same as ordinary English. It's got nothing to do with hse.

jmayo · 15-12-2022 4:50pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120000346#Comment_120000346

According to HSE Trauma means the following:

Trauma refers to physical injuries of sudden onset and severity which require immediate medical attention. Traumatic injuries are categorised as low severity, moderate severity or severe, using an Injury Severity Score. Examples of low and moderate severity injuries include soft tissue injuries, simple wrist and ankle fractures or simple skull fractures with no associated brain injury. Severe injury, signified by an Injury Severity Score of greater than 15, is also known as major trauma.

Major trauma involves injuries which have the potential to cause prolonged disability or death and is the leading cause of death among children and young adults, and is increasingly a cause of death among older adults. Examples of major trauma include falls, road traffic collisions, and injuries to the head and spine. The burden of trauma on patients, their families, the health service and society in general, is significant.

Notice the immediate medical attention bit.

There is given in Trauma the world over that the first hour is often the most critical.

Now of course in HSE terms that is probably severe trauma.

But I guess you can always request an appoiontment for an x-ray to figure out if that lump of wood that went through the windscreen is near your spinal cord.

It really shows what a crock of shyte our health system is that one of supposed foremost hospitals in the country can't operate a full and proper x-ray system.

Flinty997 · 15-12-2022 5:01pm

I'm not sure how you get a non life threatening injury needs to be treated in an hour. You might develop a limp and get it x-rayed by appointment.

I've certainly rocked up to A&E the day after a footie injury.

Floppybits · 15-12-2022 5:43pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120000273#Comment_120000273

Probably have different levels of Trauma. Im sure if you get brought in with a knife or something sticking out of some part of you or a head injury or something serious that you would be x-rayed or whatever right away. But if rock in (should that be limp in) because of a sprain or something not that serious you would be left waiting. The problem I see with messaging like this is that people who may have something serious would be put off going in. I know I had it with my late father, wouldn't go into the hospital because of the waiting and in the end it turned out he had terminal cancer but still he had to go through A&E. They need to be careful around this messaging.

jmayo · 16-12-2022 1:07pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120000412#Comment_120000412

I would say a limp isn't usually considered trauma unlike accident, assault, etc.

Look up the golden hour in trauma terms.

BTW I think back in the 80s/90s the Royal Vic in Belfast that had at one stage one of the best outcomes for Trauma patients in the world.

Of course they had lots of practice with gunshot and bomb victims.

Anita Blow · 16-12-2022 1:09pm

The XR department in SJH is not closed nor is the appointment system for trauma cases in the ED. There is 24/7 coverage for inpatient/ED radiography as there always has been.

The appointment system is for externally-requested routine/non-urgent imaging. Done similar to how routine GP bloods as triaged below inpatient/ED bloods.

Flinty997 · 16-12-2022 2:21pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120002975#Comment_120002975

They have definition for Trauma it was quoted earlier...

https://www.hse.ie/eng/about/who/acute-hospitals-division/trauma-services/defining-trauma/

Trauma is basically an injury. It doesn't have to be life threatening.

Whereas the golden hour is about life threatening injuries which are time critical.

Commoner · 21-12-2022 3:04pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119997076#Comment_119997076

I'm not a SF supporter. The Apple Tax issue is not confined to SF supporters you know. Many people from middle class and even wealthy backgrounds support taxing Apple because Apple only paid an effective tax rate of 0.005% under that ruling which the out-of-touch Irish Government is appealing.

Geuze · 21-12-2022 3:58pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120021928#Comment_120021928

This is false.

Apple pays 12.5% CT on profits attributed to its Irish branch, just like any other firm.

Please read this:

https://economic-incentives.blogspot.com/2014/09/getting-behind-story-that-some-are.html

Commoner · 21-12-2022 4:19pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120022143#Comment_120022143

I doubt the European Commission would be pursuing an appeal if it was false.

Please read this:

https://bdtechtalks.com/2016/09/10/all-you-need-to-know-about-apples-tax-evasion-controversy/

Hotblack Desiato · 22-12-2022 11:50am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120021928#Comment_120021928

Congratulations on your reply to things I didn't say 🙄

cnocbui · 22-12-2022 7:03pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120022143#Comment_120022143

During its investigations, the subcommittee found that Apple considers three key subsidiaries, all based in Ireland, to have no tax jurisdiction at all. One of those Irish affiliates, Apple Sales International (ASI), reported sales income of $74bn over four years but paid hardly any tax. In 2011 ASI had pre-tax earnings of $22bn but paid just $10m in tax, a rate of 0.05%.

Apple's annual reports show that over the past three years, Apple paid taxes worth 2 percent of its $74 billion in overseas income.

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/apple-senate-hearing-irish-tax-loophole_n_3312575

European Parliament’s TAX3 special committee on tax evasion, tax avoidance and money laundering.

5) If we assume the highly likely scenario that Apple’s provisions for foreign tax is substantially smaller than the amount actually transferred to foreign governments, we estimate that Apple may have paid as little as 0.7% tax in the EU from 2015-2017.

https://taxjustice.net/2018/06/25/new-report-is-apple-paying-less-than-1-tax-in-the-eu/

The European Commission used this example — based on figures from U.S. Senate public hearings — to illustrate how this worked in practice: In 2011, Apple Sales International recorded profits of €16 billion, but under the terms of the tax ruling only around €50 million were considered taxable in Ireland, leaving €15.95 billion of profits untaxed. Apple Sales International paid less than €10 million of corporate tax in Ireland in 2011 – an effective tax rate of about 0.05% on its overall annual profits. In subsequent years, Apple Sales International’s profits continued to climb but, under the agreement, its taxable profits in Ireland did not — the effective tax rate decreased to 0.005% in 2014. https://www.cnbc.com/2016/08/30/how-apples-irish-subsidiaries-paid-a-0005-percent-tax-rate-in-2014.html

Apple told the Subcommittee that, for many years, Ireland has provided Apple affiliates with a special tax rate that is substantially below its already relatively low statutory rate of 12 percent. Apple told the Subcommittee that it had obtained this special rate through negotiations with the Irish government.73 According to Apple, for the last ten years, this special corporate income tax rate has been 2 percent or less:

"Since the early 1990's, the Government of Ireland has calculated Apple's taxable income in such a way as to produce an effective rate in the low single digits. . . . The rate has varied from year to year, but since 2003 has been 2% or less."74

Other information provided by Apple indicates that the Irish tax rate assessed on Apple affiliates has recently been substantially below 2%. For example, Apple told the Subcommittee that, for the three year period from 2009 to 2011, ASI paid an Irish corporate income tax rate that was consistently below far below 1% and, in 2011, was as low as five-hundreds of one percent (0.05%):

https://www.taxnotes.com/research/federal/legislative-documents/congressional-news-releases/levin%2C-mccain-examine-apple%27s-use-of-irish-subsidiaries-for-tax/f3fc

I'll take Apple and Tim Cooks sworn testimony before the US Senate over your nonsense.

Hotblack Desiato · 22-12-2022 11:37pm

US tax law is the culprit but it suits Apple to blame Ireland in Congress, the last thing they want are the loopholes in US law they're taking advantage of to be closed.

xzanti · 23-12-2022 12:33pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119980583#Comment_119980583

But then it won't look like a big eye anymore.

Cluedo Monopoly · 01-03-2023 1:30pm

Do we have any idea when this hospital will open and how much it will actually cost? How are FG getting away with a lack of scrutiny around this?

blanch152 · 01-03-2023 2:27pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120301114#Comment_120301114

If the hospital opens and it works well, then all the whinging will be quickly forgotten.

jmayo · 01-03-2023 3:23pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120301356#Comment_120301356

And here is the opinion of modern FG I suppose.

How dare the people whinge.

I mean how ungrateful of them.

Don't they know we have one of the best health services in the world.

Well at least when you stack us up against the developing world and the other also rans.

And sssshhhh about the fact that our health service is one of the best funded per capita in Europe yet most people that can afford it go for private health care.

Our very highly funded public health care system is falling apart pure and simple.

Podge_irl · 01-03-2023 3:31pm

I would be far less confident that the cost overruns will be "quickly forgotten", and I'm sure people will be complaining about the location on the basis of nothing but traffic for years to come.

However, I also don't know how anyone with a straight face can claim there was a lack of scrutiny. There is constant reports about the cost overruns.

Cluedo Monopoly · 01-03-2023 4:41pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120301356#Comment_120301356

Ah yes, accept the mediocre from our elites...I'm alright Jack.

What about the value to the taxpayer for the long delayed project?

THE new national children's hospital was due to complete in 2016 according to the then Health Minister Dr James Reilly (FG). Cost 650m (revised from original 450m). He also oversaw the farce around the location which cost tens of millions.

It will actually cost us over 2 billion. Nobody knows really. So let's imagine for one moment that a Fine Gael plan actually delivered on time and in budget. We would have 1.35 billion+ to spend on maybe another hospital or hospital refurbishments or more vital medical equipment or more frontline staff. That's the point mister. Imagine nobody knows the final cost - impossible to work out it seems. More FG BS.

Are there learnings from this massive overspend and delay? 100%.

Allinall · 01-03-2023 4:45pm

Anyone who thinks the new hospital was ever going to be built for €650m or anywhere near that is naive in the extreme.

Cluedo Monopoly · 01-03-2023 5:08pm

Reilly declines to say how much new hospital will cost – The Irish Times

Reilly declines to say how much new hospital will cost

Minister for Health James Reilly has declined to say how much the new national children’s hospital to be built at St James’s

St James’s has said it can build the project for €478 million but Dr Reilly said yesterday this estimate was “tight”.

Planning granted for €650m children’s hospital (irishexaminer.com)

Planning permission has been granted for the new €650m hospital to be built at the St James’s Hospital site in Dublin. Construction is due to start in the summer and is expected to take four years.

Children's hospital cost could yet rise by up to €50m - Independent.ie

The cost of building the new national children's hospital could escalate by up to €50m - leaving the Exchequer to find the bulk of €700m needed to allow the long-awaited facility to open in 2020.

---------------

From 478 to 650 to 700 to 2 BILLION and counting...nobody knows...

Cluedo Monopoly · 01-03-2023 5:12pm

Review into overruns at children’s hospital to cost €450,000 – The Irish Times

An independent review into the runaway cost of the new national children's hospital will itself cost €450,000, the Oireachtas health committee has heard.

The review by consultants PWC began this week and will be completed by March, HSE assistant director general Dean Sullivan told the committee.

Consultants will look at the factors that contributed to the escalation in cost of the project at St James’s Hospital - which is now projected to cost €1.7 billion - so that any “potential weaknesses” can be identified and resolved, Mr Sullivan said.

----------

Even PWC got their cut...

jmayo · 01-03-2023 5:29pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120302050#Comment_120302050

You can't make this sh** up.

We will have yet another plethora of consultants who will be paid to look into how some other consultants got it wrong.

And these consultants work for one of the big four.

Remind anyone of PPARS.

Wasn't that yet another farce overseen by dept of health?

I would love to see correlation between the share ownership of top politicians and top civil servants and the top consultancy firms.

Who would bet on the lyout of the venn diagram?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120301634#Comment_120301634

I see you and some others constantly lecturing us about how necessary public transport is for this hospital.

Do you realise that lots of the nursing staff in James have to arrive real early in the morning simply to get parking on existing site?

This is going to get worse with all the extra staff even with the new spaces.

Oh and for all you HSE/Dept of Health fanboys and girls, the reason they drive is they can't afford to buy or now even rent in Dublin city.

James and other hospitals are haemorrhaging medical staff because of the conditions and the cost of living in the likes of Dublin.

Podge_irl · 01-03-2023 5:47pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120302101#Comment_120302101

I see you and some others constantly lecturing us about how necessary public transport is for this hospital.

Do you realise that lots of the nursing staff in James have to arrive real early in the morning simply to get parking on existing site?

Yes. Are you aware how many families in the GDA don't own cars?

Anyway, an out of town facility wouldn't have had significantly (if any) more car parking as it would be against planning considerations.

New Children's Hospital - A symbol of Ireland's scandalous and shady behavior

Comments

Minister for Health James Reilly has declined to say how much the new national children’s hospital to be built at St James’s