"Green" policies are destroying this country

namloc1980 · 21-12-2022 2:47pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120021787#Comment_120021787

Yes that's it exactly.... you should give it a go. 👍

21-12-2022 2:47pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120021842#Comment_120021842

It's your question, not mine so no onus on me either.

If you do find anything, by all means share it here as there's a few with similar questions

Danno · 21-12-2022 2:49pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120021822#Comment_120021822

Most of the exemptions, discounts etc have been removed from EV's there already as the adoption has grown.

Translation: The wealthy elite have drained the trough of subsidies and grants and now that the ordinary plebs are beginning to purchase EVs they can go hop skip and jump.

This is a usual trick by the greens who garner most votes from affluent leafy suburbs - effectively rewarding their voter base. We saw it happen with the motor tax change in 2008. Anyone buying a new car (Diesel at the time was promoted) were given rates of €190 per annum whereas the pleb working his/her rear end off and had an 07 or earlier car had to pay €790 motor tax.

The usual transfer of wealth to the already wealthy is a common policy of the Greens and their advocates - make no mistakes about it.

charlie14 · 21-12-2022 2:49pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120021822#Comment_120021822

Doesn`t answer the question though, no more than it does for your offshore plan, as to who pays for road upkeep if ICE vehicles were gone in the morning.

I thought the green policy was user pays so why not EV owners and cyclists ?

Sounds very much one law for what greens like while everyone else does the funding. Just the usual green hypocrisy imho.

namloc1980 · 21-12-2022 2:51pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120021841#Comment_120021841

Nobody specifically pays for road upkeep is the point. All taxes collected in Ireland go into the general pot regardless of source. The main exceptions being PRSI which goes into the social insurance fund and LPT which goes to local authorities.

A euro collected in fuel duty is as likely to pay for social welfare or the HSE as it is for a pothole to be filled or to pay a teacher's salary.

charlie14 · 21-12-2022 2:53pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120021809#Comment_120021809

So basically you favour a plan where you have not even the most vague of idea how much it would cost or even how or if it would work.

Good to know.

namloc1980 · 21-12-2022 2:55pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120021853#Comment_120021853

I think you've missed the sarcasm in that entire piece.

21-12-2022 2:56pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120021870#Comment_120021870

There is no plan for ICE's to be gone in the morning so little point exploring that particular fantasy further.

There is a plan for the gradual transition of the national car fleet to EV and proposals are being explored as to how best to set up the vehicle taxation system in that regard.

charlie14 · 21-12-2022 2:57pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120021875#Comment_120021875

So basically you are saying that if all ICE`s were gone in the morning then road upkeep would be paid through general taxation.

That sounds about right for green policy. User pays for anything we selectively do not like, while everybody funds our wet dreams.

Bunch of hypocrites.

Akrasia · 21-12-2022 2:58pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120021348#Comment_120021348

Don't be ridiculous

Ireland has one of the most transparent and democratic electoral systems of any country in the world

namloc1980 · 21-12-2022 3:05pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120021900#Comment_120021900

It is paid through the general pot already! If all ICE vehicles disappeared in the morning then that would be crazy. You're some fella for creating strawmen in fairness 🙄🤣

But "if" they did then the EV owners would most likely find themselves paying some hefty new taxes.

spaceHopper · 21-12-2022 3:08pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120021538#Comment_120021538

There approved to apply for approval for planning permission. That would be at least a year away. Then there is a small matter that the shore side cabling hasn't been laid. As well as the lead time for ground works and building the turbines and installing them....

You are been totally unrealistic to the point of proving this thread right.

This is were we were over the last month.

To cut emissions by 75% we need an additional 2.1MW or 144% of actual wind energy generation backed up by grid scale storage.

21-12-2022 3:09pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120021931#Comment_120021931

It's the plot of the next Marvel movie, Thanos is coming to Ireland to click his fingers and remove only the ICE's in one fell swoop

We better get the tax system prepared!!!

JRant · 21-12-2022 3:12pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120021862#Comment_120021862

That's a no then. Cool, it's all aspirational and has no grounding in reality.

21-12-2022 3:31pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120021965#Comment_120021965

Indeed. The omissions in the narrative are absolutely glaring, in terms of i) logistics, in our case notably 7GW offshore wind installation in 7 years, ii) upstream emissions and other impacts as we go to zero emissions (generally overseas in mines etc) and iii) rising costs as resource availability (both logistics and materials) falls behind demand. And yet when those pushing the agenda are challenged on these omissions, the response is to “go find out yourself”. I’m sorry, but that’s not how it works. The onus is on them to come with a fully costed (financial cost and end-to-end emissions reduction) plan. Only then can the cost:benefit be assessed. Otherwise it’s just aspirational BS.

It’s notable that DaCor and others here will engage very actively on local traffic issues or domestic initiatives like rewetting, but when challenged on the big picture then go very quiet. Because their big picture is just an aspiration….a straight extrapolation into the future of what has happened to this point. It’s just not going to play out like that as demand across the world for batteries, solar panels and wind turbines goes through the roof

21-12-2022 3:41pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120022040#Comment_120022040

Show me a publicly available source for cost info on any of the 7 projects going forward for the first round of ORESS auctions and I'll happily copy & paste that info here for you

If there is no such source available then there is no such source available.

I can make up a load of fake numbers if you want, but I think there's more than enough of that already in this thread and I see no need to add to that particular stream of nonsense.

21-12-2022 3:42pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120022071#Comment_120022071

And therein lies the problem. An almost religious zeal based on one side of the equation

there are people calling this out. Both the lack of logistics available to meet our offshore targets, and, at a bigger scale, the huge energy demand as the currently easy to get at minerals for solar etc become more challenging to extract

podcasts covering logistics and mining have both been posted here, but are routinely ignored because they disrupt your narrative

itll all come to a head in a couple of years when the penny drops

21-12-2022 3:46pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120021965#Comment_120021965

Tell you what, I'll go get those numbers for you when you can answer the following for me

Taking Tynagh Energy as an example, show me how much they spent on gas in the first 6 months of this year, how much they consumed, how much profit was made on it and how the usage of that volume of gas impacted the national unit price of electricity given the increase in wholesale gas prices.

Once you get that answered, answer it again, but this time for 2029

21-12-2022 4:17pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120022181#Comment_120022181

A perfect illustration of my point about fake numbers. Simply plucking figures out of the air does not make them accurate

Danno · 21-12-2022 4:22pm

Reading through the last ~100 pages and it's probably easiest on everyone if Ireland just pulled out of all these "agreements" and fook the emissions. It's cutting a stick to beat ourselves with even trying.

If the C02 is as bad as they it says, then whoopdee fookin dooo, we'll have 25c to 30c days every summer and the winters will be milder meaning less expense on heating for everyone living here.

Worrying about what the Germans and whoever the hell else thinks of us for doing so won't cause too many sleepless nights amongst any right-thinking person.

Open up our oil fields and gas fields and plough on for another fifty to a hundred years. The Americans will probably have cracked the unlimited clean energy solution by then and we can simply adopt.

Everything else proposed so far is an expensive virtue signal.

21-12-2022 4:42pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120022231#Comment_120022231

Yeah I've seen that, its still not accurate though or can you tell me which wind farms proposed off the coast meet the parameters laid on on that page.

You won't be able to as none have reached the stage where you would be able to and until planning applications are submitted you won't be fill in even half the blanks for those parameters.

Listen, I'm happy to look over numbers and figures, same as anyone, but until there is a verifiable set of numbers to look at its purely your guess against mine and there simply isn't enough details available yet to make even an educated guess, for example, wind turbine rating alone would have a massive impact on the figures, never mind the other parameters.

Either way, the auction price is the most relevant number in terms of cost to the end consumer, not how much a private company spent on x turbines, so how much they do spend, at the end of the day, is not really relevant

21-12-2022 4:45pm

2023 Climate Action Plan just dropped

https://www.gov.ie/en/publication/7bd8c-climate-action-plan-2023/

namloc1980 · 21-12-2022 4:50pm

Completely lacking in detail as expected. For example the actions for major transport infrastructure for the next 3 years are "Advance DART+ programme" and "Advance Metrolink planning". That's it. About as useful as a chocolate fireguard.

21-12-2022 4:56pm

From the summary document, the highlights of the new plan are

Power (75% reduction target to 2030)

We will facilitate a large-scale deployment of renewables that will be critical to decarbonising the power sector as well as enabling the electrification of other technologies.

Accelerate the delivery of onshore wind, offshore wind, and solar.
Dial up to 9 GW onshore wind, 8 GW solar, and at least 7 GW of offshore wind by 2030 (with 2 GW earmarked for green hydrogen production).
Support at least 500 MW of local community-based renewable energy projects and increased levels of new micro-generation and small-scale generation.
Phase out and end the use of coal and peat in electricity generation.
New, dynamic Green Electricity Tariff will be developed by 2025 to incentivise people to use lower cost renewable electricity at times of high wind and solar generation.

Buildings (40% residential / 45% commercial & public reduction target to 2030)

We will increase the energy efficiency of existing buildings, put in place policies to deliver zero-emissions new builds and continue to ramp up our retrofitting programme.

Ramp up retrofitting to 120,000 dwellings to BER B2 by 2025, jumping to 500,000 by 2030.
Put heat pumps into 45,000 existing and 170,000 new dwellings by 2025, up to 400,000 existing and 280,000 new dwellings by 2030.
Generation up to 0.8 TWh of district heating by 2025 and up to 2.5 TWh by 2030.

Transport (50% reduction target to 2030)

We will drive policies to reduce transport emissions by improving our town, cities and rural planning, and by adopting the Avoid-Shift-Improve approach: reducing or avoiding the need for travel, shifting to public transport, walking and cycling and improving the energy efficiency of vehicles.

Change the way we use our road space.
Reduce the total distance driven across all car journeys by 20%.
Walking, cycling and public transport to account for 50% of our journeys.
Nearly 1 in 3 private cars will be an Electric Vehicle.
Increase walking and cycling networks.
70% of people in rural Ireland will have buses that provide at least 3 trips to the nearby town daily by 2030.

Agriculture (25% reduction target to 2030)

We will support farmers to continue to produce worldclass, safe and nutritious food while also seeking to diversify income through tillage, energy generation and forestry.

Significantly reduce our use of chemical nitrogen as a fertilizer.
Increase uptake of protected urea on grassland farms to 90-100%.
Increase organic farming to up to 450,000 hectares, the area of tillage to up to 400,000 ha.
Expand the indigenous biomethane sector through anaerobic digestion, reaching up to 5.7TWh of biomethane.
Contribute to delivery of the land use targets for afforestation and reduced management intensity of organic soils.

Business (35% reduction target to 2030)

We’re changing how we produce, consume, and design our goods and services by breaking the link between fossil fuels and economic progress. Decarbonising industry and enterprise is key to Ireland’s economy and future competitiveness.

Reduce clinker content in cement and substitute products with lower carbon content for construction materials, ensuring 35% reduction in emissions by 2030 (against 2018).
Reduce fossil fuel use from 64% of final consumption (2021) to 45% by 2025 and further by 2030.
Increase total share of heating to carbon neutral to 50-55% by 2025, up to 70-75% by 2030.
Significantly grow the circular economy and bioeconomy.

Land Use & Forestry (target TBD)

The first phase of the land use review will tell us how we are using our land now. Then, we can map, with evidence, how it can be used most effectively to capture and store carbon and to produce better, greener food and energy

Increase our annual afforestation rates to 8,000 hectares per annum from 2023 onwards.
Rethink our Forestry Programme and Vision. Promote forest management initiatives in both public and private forests to increase carbon sinks and stores.
Improve carbon sequestration of 450,000 ha of grasslands on mineral soils and reduce the management intensity of grasslands on 80,000 ha of drained organic soils.
Rehabilitate 77,600 hectares of peatlands.

Sourced from the summary document

21-12-2022 5:01pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120022306#Comment_120022306

Well in fairness, its nearly 300 pages as it is and is only designed to list the actions. Its never going to get into the weeds of each individual action. You'd be looking at a document several thousand pages long if they did that. Individual actions will have their own set of documents/reports etc as applicable