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Going to change but petrol or diesel?

  • 22-12-2022 10:27pm
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 46,545 ✭✭✭✭


    I have had a few different cars over the years but all had petrol engines. Im thinking of changing early next year (will be buying used) and would prefer to stick with a petrol model. However I am tempted to go for a diesel model but the only issue is that a couple of people told me that I need to be driving almost every day otherwise I will wreck the diesel engine. Is this true?

    Yearly mileage for the last few years has been around 4k and in fairness the car could be parked up for 3 - 4 days at a time. So given all that what would you experts suggest?



«1

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,673 ✭✭✭User1998


    Absolutely get a petrol. Do not go near a diesel with that sort of mileage



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 51,360 ✭✭✭✭bazz26


    Why do you think you need a diesel car given you said the car will be sitting up for 3 or 4 days at a time? Fuel costs shouldn't be a deciding factor given your little usage.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 46,545 ✭✭✭✭muffler


    Well, that's the question Im asking I suppose. Why should I not touch a diesel car when my mileage is very low?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 46,545 ✭✭✭✭muffler


    Fuel cost isnt really a factor at all. Im interested in a particular make / model which is available in both petrol and diesel but there's probably about 4 times as many diesel models available to choose from. Im also factoring in the cost of road tax.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,410 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin


    If you have a driveway and can get a home charger then for that mileage I'd consider going electric or plugin hybrid

    From the sounds of it you're not driving more than 20km a day?

    Even the most basic electric or plugin hybrid should manage that with about a 75% reduction in fuel costs and cheap tax to boot

    It's worth looking into at any rate

    "The internet never fails to misremember" - Sebastian Ruiz, aka Frost



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,502 ✭✭✭secman


    Diesel are not ideal for low mileage at all, especially city driving. They are ideal for high motorway mileage. For low mileage and 4k kms is low... the order would be

    1.electric,

    2. hybrid petrol

    3. petrol



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,673 ✭✭✭User1998


    Because diesel cars aren’t as nice to drive as petrols, and if you don’t regularly drive a diesel car on the motorway the DPF will get blocked and the car will become un drivable.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,673 ✭✭✭User1998


    There is no point buying an electric car unless you are going to save money on fuel. At 4k km’s a year thats less than €400 a year on fuel. It could take 20 years or more before you even break even. Electric cars are expensive and have a big premium over petrol/diesel cars.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 512 ✭✭✭dickdasr1234




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,467 ✭✭✭Buddy Bubs


    If you are cosw sensitive wouldn't recommend electric at your mileage unless its one of the early ones going cheap now if they have enough daily range for you.

    Cost of charger alone will take a few years to recover.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,713 ✭✭✭✭Jim_Hodge


    You couldn't justify electric, or even plug in hybrid, for 4k kms a year. Financial madness! Petrol is the best option by far.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,410 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin


    "The internet never fails to misremember" - Sebastian Ruiz, aka Frost



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 51,360 ✭✭✭✭bazz26


    You really should be choosing a car that suits your usage rather than fuel type availability or motor tax deciding for you. Very few cars these days have annual motor tax higher than €400/500 these days unless it's something half silly. If you cannot find a model that suits your usuage then best look at something else rather than compromising.

    How much is your budget?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,713 ✭✭✭✭Jim_Hodge


    Where to begin? Initial purchase cost, installation of a charge point and cost of charging V Petrol: electric vehicles doing only 4000km a year would never pay for themselves.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,287 ✭✭✭crisco10



    The fuel savings would be low alright, maybe €300/400 a year. So cars would need to be close to same price for it to make sense. So depends on the OP's budget, they could get a leaf for ~10k that might work for them.

    The charger doesn't necessarily have to cost anything, a more basic charger can be got for closer to the €600 which you can get through the SEAI grant.

    My real question is at 4000km a year, why are is the OP even getting a replacement car? The most financially prudent thing to do is just hold onto the one they have (unless there's something wrong with it they didn't mention)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 46,545 ✭✭✭✭muffler


    Budget will be about 5 - 6 grand. I'm retired now so just need something to get from A to B



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,057 ✭✭✭✭John_Rambo


    Petrol or Electric Muffler, we've similar mileage and diesel was a nightmare, lots of problems. Diesel is dead, that's why there's lots for sale.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 51,360 ✭✭✭✭bazz26


    Well the only EV you will really get for 5-6 grand is a 10 year old first generation Leaf and that will probably have a realistic range of about 80km this time of year. Even with low mileage you would be charging it fairly frequently. I'm also not sure how well the duratility of an EV battery of that agew would take to sitting up unused regularly for 3 to 4 days at a time either. Personally I wouldn't bother with that potential pain in the hole when your not going to be spending alot on fuel anyway.

    The way the used car market is these days there really isn't much in the way of value. Your 5 to 6k doesn't stretch as far as it did a pre Covid/Brexit. You might do a bit better in something that isn't really popular or costs more to fuel or tax. You certainly don't need diesel and most in your price range will be well used at this stage with some pending pricy maintenance or repairs not too far down the road.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,410 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin


    Yeah you're looking at a second hand Leaf if going electric, it'll have a degraded battery but should cover 80km which is enough for a local runabout

    It's only really worthwhile if you can get a home charger installed. As others said you'd save a bit on fuel and road tax, but it's not exactly going to be a fortune. The main advantages would be the ease of driving and not having to go to the petrol station again

    With your driving habits, you'd probably be charging once or twice a week. If you know you're going somewhere then plug in the evening before and charge overnight. After you're done driving, plug in again to top up if needed but then unplug the next day. It's better not to leave the car plugged in all the time

    Alternatively something like a Yaris hybrid or similar would likely suit your needs and budget

    As others said, diesel is definitely not worthwhile for you. Petrol has effectively caught up in terms of fuel efficiency and the price advantage for diesel is gone

    "The internet never fails to misremember" - Sebastian Ruiz, aka Frost



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,673 ✭✭✭User1998


    The best option would be to keep your current car or buy a 10 year old Yaris or Micra



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 46,545 ✭✭✭✭muffler


    Just for clarity I wouldn't consider an EV.

    Thanks for all the replies folks. It looks like I'll be sticking with petrol when the time comes.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,053 ✭✭✭Casati


    You'd be mad to consider electric, the payback for EV's is only where you are doing decent miles. Also regardless of what other might say, diesels have no problem coping with non use for 3 or 4 days at a stretch, what they dont work well with however is exclusive use for short journeys.

    If I was in your shoes I'd be trying to get another petrol



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,096 ✭✭✭✭elperello


    OP definitely should not buy a diesel for the very good reasons explained by other posters.

    However just as a footnote the rumours of the death of diesel are greatly exaggerated.

    They are still selling to bigger mileage clients and rightly so.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 283 ✭✭timeToLive


    Do modern diesels really suffer from the issues mentioned above? Lots of people driving them with similar mileage to OP and not much issues. Maybe if you don't drive it for weeks.. but that is the same for petrols. All cars need to be driven regularly.


    Diesels have greater torque than petrols which makes them nicer to drive in nearly all scenarios.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,057 ✭✭✭✭John_Rambo


    Yes they do suffer from these issues. Diesel is great for trucks and vans that travel long distances all the time. Petrol cars are quieter, smoother, faster & nicer to drive.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,673 ✭✭✭User1998


    How many people do you know that drive 4k km a year? And how many of them drive a diesel?

    Diesels are not nicer to drive. The rev range is small and they only have power between 2k to 4k. And they sound awful. They are only better at cruising on the motorway which is what they are made for



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 100 ✭✭nedkelly123


    i have 2 cars a 911 and a 2010 Yaris 1.4 diesel

    i do about 60km a week in the Yaris .. its unbelievable 60-70mpg

    never ever goes wrong , sails thru the nct every year...

    i would recommend getting something like that



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,498 ✭✭✭NewClareman


    I'm in a similar situation to you, retired with very low annual mileage. We have a diesel Renault Fluence, which I bought new in 2011, as our second car. It regularly lies unused for a week or more at a time. I run it at 100kmh in 4th gear about once a month, unless it's had a motorway run.

    In your case I'd be looking at reliability, accessibility and purchase price. I do think that diesel is on the way out, but at the right price I'd have no hesitation buying one secondhand. With low mileage you do need to be careful with diesel, to avoid potential problems. When I replace my car I'll be looking for something with higher seats, as at a certain age the years are not always kind. :)

    I looked at buying an electric car, but our annual mileage, even on our main car, was just too low. The payback was negative.

    Good luck with your search and welcome to the club!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,410 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin


    Diesel, bringing the van driving experience to cars since the 1930s

    "The internet never fails to misremember" - Sebastian Ruiz, aka Frost



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,410 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin


    Do you mind if I ask why? Genuine curiosity, not trying a sales pitch

    "The internet never fails to misremember" - Sebastian Ruiz, aka Frost



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 46,545 ✭✭✭✭muffler


    Thanks for that. I know exactly what you mean about being elevated as I've had back problems for years. I currently drive a Santa Fe and I'm hoping to change to something similar. Maybe a Nissan Qashqai



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,673 ✭✭✭User1998


    Most people still have no interest in used EV’s. And as explained above if OP was buying new or nearly new it would take 20+ years to recoup the costs



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 46,545 ✭✭✭✭muffler


    I wouldn't consider an EV purely for personal reasons and unlike some folk I don't intend getting into a discussion on this point as I don't know anything about them. Sorry if that sounds a bit sharp but it's just how it is. As per the thread title I was trying to get some opinions on whether low mileage driving of a diesel car is the right or safe thing to do. Thanks.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 51,360 ✭✭✭✭bazz26


    Lol, as opposed to EVs bringing the milk float driving experience since the 1900s.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,709 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    Self-charging and plug-in hybrids remain a bit of a con. The price premium isn't worth the real-world fuel saving and an added hybrid system is just extra technology to go wrong down the line.

    Also, hybrids can have really awful automatic transmissions and be a very unrewarding drive.

    For the mileage you are doing, a modern petrol engine is just the ticket. And there are some real beauties out there today as we reach the climax of ICE technology, before it disappears as q new offering forever.

    You don't indicate a budget, but I have driven these below and would recommend them all.

    Skoda Fabia 1.0 TSI 95hp

    Skoda Octavia 1.5 TSI in liftback or estate, 148 bhp.

    Also the Seat Leon and VW T-Roc with the above engine - the Leon is tuned for 128 hp.

    Kia Sportage 1.6 Hybrid. Yes, I'm going against my rant here, but its one car in which SCH works very well and does produce 50 mpg. The powertrain is a cracker and gives over 200hp.

    BMW 3-Series in 320i or 330i tune, giving 185 and 245 hp respectively. Available in saloon or 'touring' estate. The best all rounder money can buy in my opinion, though I would stretch to the M340i which has the 6-cylinder and is the best petrol engine in the World, IMHO.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,673 ✭✭✭User1998


    OP’s budget is €5k

    We should all just agree that at 4,000km a year a 1 litre Yaris/Micra is the obvious and correct choice. Case closed



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,172 ✭✭✭✭billyhead


    For so little mileage is it even necessary to buy a car. If the journeys are short in nature could you not consider walking, cycling or public transport which would be more financially prudent.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,367 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    For balance I have an 09 diesel A6 that does around 6K KM a year, mostly local and have never had any issues with DPF.

    It might get a short spin on the M50 once a month but 99% of its trips would be under 10km @ 50km/h.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,673 ✭✭✭User1998


    Euro 5 was only introduced in September 09 so its likely that your car doesn’t have a DPF fitted

    Theres also a lot of cars out there that have had their DPF’s removed by previous owners



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 46,545 ✭✭✭✭muffler


    What's a DPF!



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 922 ✭✭✭65535


    Diesel only for me and will be until I no longer drive but then I'm doing the mileage.

    At your milage I would suggest a petrol hybrid - something like a Skoda hybrid.

    Around the city you run it on battery and if you have to go for a spin you would use the 1.3 or so L petrol engine.

    It's horses for courses - yes Diesel is great for cars/vans that do a lot of mileage - personally I'd never buy a petrol car again since my carburettor went on fire back in the '80's but then I'd assume they've moved on since that.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,309 ✭✭✭✭wotzgoingon


    Diesel particulate filter you can also get a petrol one too but petrol is cleaner than diesel so doesn't get blocked.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,309 ✭✭✭✭wotzgoingon


    Carbs are long gone. You must have been driving some lumps of diesel engines back in the 80's.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,057 ✭✭✭✭John_Rambo


    And they did it successfully.

    Fair enough, you're dead right too, EV's are expensive. But from personal experience diesel is a mess for the mileage you and I do. We screwed up a perfectly good land rover with our short low speed runs over the years. It just couldn't handle the junk & gunk being fed back in to the engine that needed lots of high heat and constant high revving driving it needed to burn off the crap. Ended with lots of valve issues & expensive services (even with a client looking after the car with a quid pro quo deal).

    The whole diesel thing was (obviously a conn) particularly for low mileage users from day one. Thankfully smoother, cheaper (to maintain), small cc advanced petrol engines with some power are back in vogue for all the right reasons.

    At the price you're looking at you're going to have to wade through a lot of keenly priced diesel cars that dealers are desperately trying to shift. The petrol Santa Fe you're currently in was actually a fantastic (ugly) car that surprised a lot of people with it's reliability and durability so you've a bit of work to do!!

    Best of luck with your search, let us know what you settled on.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,119 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    Old diesels were great. Bombproof and great mileaget. But slow.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 94 ✭✭BanjoSpanner


    Not worth tuppence maybe but here's a few points and observations from me and my experience etc.

    1. Diesel is most definitely not dead and will not die any time soon.

    2. I switched from petrol to diesel about 15 years ago and will never go back, for a variety of reasons.

    3. I also do very low mileage and 90% of it is urban, <50kph. I have never had any issues caused by my driving pattern over the course of 5 different models in the past 15 years.

    The only reason I originally switched to diesel was because a particular car I really liked was available in diesel only. That's how it started but like I said, I'd never go back to petrol by choice. I simply find diesel to be a stronger, more sturdy and more confident driving experience. I'm not one for speed or being first away at the lights so I don't care about that kind of performance.

    Personally I am now wondering how long more I'll have a car for. I'm in my mid to late 40s and the last of my school going children has this year decided she wants to take buses, so no more school run. Also, I used to make regular 200+km trips across the country to see parents, but I'm sorry to say I no longer need to do that for sad reasons that I'm sure you'll be able to figure out. I work from home practically full time now, so no commute. And certainly where I live in Dublin, Eamonn Ryan and his green brigade have blazed a trail in recent years of reallocating more and more road space to pedestrians and cyclists, to the point where there is often scarcely enough room to drive down a road in the city. Driving has become a complete displeasure any more, which I think more and more about while stuck behind another cyclist I can't overtake.

    All said, I am very much at the point now where having a car at all is a nice to have rather than a necessity. Having regularly changed my car over the years, I am now minded to either keep the one I've got forever, or get rid of it altogether.

    My post is at risk of becoming a bit of a depressing rant but I'll try to rescue it by returning to your original question.

    If you like petrol, then you've no reason to change. EV's etc. have become more common in recent years but personally, I'm not convinced yet. The appearance of more and more of them is in large part driven by aggressive tax policy, by a government where the minister responsible is a green. That kind of policy can mask reality, by which I mean that without the considerable financial incentives, I suspect we would not be seeing anywhere near the number of EV's that we're seeing on the road. That may mean that the downsides of ownership vastly outweigh the supposed advantages. The whole pollution argument is false as well, because harmful atmospheric toxins were still produced during manufacture and in generating the electricity they use.

    As for diesel, for you I see no benefit. They were heavily incentivised by government in 2008 on environmental grounds but since then, more has been learned about them that apparently now makes that policy decision a mistake. In tandem with that, petrol technology has come on in leaps and bounds over those years, meaning they are now far cleaner than they were.

    I'd say stick with petrol. It's what you know, and you've nothing particularly driving you towards any of the alternatives at the moment.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,261 ✭✭✭TigerTim


    @BanjoSpanner re I also do very low mileage and 90% of it is urban, <50kph. I have never had any issues caused by my driving pattern over the course of 5 different models in the past 15 years.


    I'm in a similar situation. Had a diesel Citroen C-Crosser for 6 years with virtually no issues (except for ridiculous tax) & a diesel Toyota Avensis for the past 4 years. I usually keep an eye on what the Taxis use. When I was changing to the Avensis, every 2nd Taxi seemed to be an Avensis. I see a lot of Skoda Superbs by them now so not sure if they are ok with town driving & the odd blast. What diesel models have you driven. Must change Mrs T's bangernomichs Ford C-max soon & interested to see what diesel's at the lower end of the market give few issues. Hard to locate a nice car in petrol these days.


    T,



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,709 ✭✭✭HBC08


    Do you have a sticker on the Yaris saying " my other car is a Porche"?!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2 Nice wine


    I have a 2008 Focus Ghia 1.8 Diesel, cheap to tax and reliable, no dpf either. I do about 4k miles a year also, but I would imagine that if you bought a 2012 petrol Octavia, Focus, or Fiesta you would probably have good number to choose from.



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